Parents Missing school for training

[Gymmommy71]

IDP is like TOPS, throw the word IDP around and the parents think their child is so wonderful and will drive them to gymnastics more and/or further and will commit to more. Only worse because they will take kids who can't even cartwheel yet into an IDP program. Older kids certainly get the opportunity if they show talent, plus they are needed to take the spots of the untalented kids who were basically there (sometimes from age 4) to fill spaces and cover the cost of running the program. Some of the better kids actually started later. So if you tell a parent their kid needs to leave school early most will buy into it because they are in IDP (and that makes them special)



This is a real problem with the IDP kids who get sent back to the club, in many cases I think they are below average in talent for a competitive gymnasts, but they have trained over 20 hours a week for a long time. Suddenly their hours drop and they really struggle to maintain strength/flexibility and skills. Add in a parent who bought into how wonderful an IDP program is and it is a recipe for disaster.

What is described above is exactly what I meant/was concerned about in my initial reaction to the OP's question...gyms say things like "elite potential, TOPS, IDP" to a parent of a first grader and the family gets all "my kid is a one-in-a-million talent, drop everything else in my DDs life and do gym constantly at whatever time/day the gym says and pay them whatever it costs!!!".

This new discovery to me that some of these 1st and 2nd grade kids are training 25+ hours a week (I really had no idea that happened, I thought those type of hours didn't start until they were literally Olympic level, like teenagers) adds another angle to my thinking in that I question this is natural ability or "specialness" that is making these kids so good at a young age, but more excessive training compared to who they are competing against.

Like are you really a "winner" if you trained 35 hours a week to get first place as an 8 YO L8 when the girl who came in second only trains 16? I'd also imagine, like the post I quoted alludes to, that at some point a "wall" would be hit where the training hours are unable to make up for the lack of natural ability. Boy would that be a rough situation to accept/handle for the young gymnast and her family...

 

[Aussie_coach]

No matter how well it is done it really is not healthy for a 7 year old to be training in Gymnastics 25 hours per week. Yes in Australia we have our elite athletes chosen by 7 and they already training in speciality streams prepping for elite. But they are not training 25 hours per week. Their hours are built up over many years.

 

[MaryA]

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think the OP ever said her DD was training 25 hours a week. I thought she said the earlier practice time was an attempt to practice during a time when the gym is not crowded. Maybe it's also to give them chance to be in the gym at the same time as the "big girls" who are putting in that kind of time in the gym. Again, this is a long thread, and I may have missed it. Maybe her 7-year-old is practicing 25 hours a week. But that was not my impression.

 

[mommyof1]

Skipping school for sports on a regular basis is just not an option in our school district unless you are home-schooling. 20 or more absences (excused or unexcused) = automatic grade retention, unless you have a waiver from the superintendent of schools.

 

[OzZee]

What is described above is exactly what I meant/was concerned about in my initial reaction to the OP's question...gyms say things like "elite potential, TOPS, IDP" to a parent of a first grader and the family gets all "my kid is a one-in-a-million talent, drop everything else in my DDs life and do gym constantly at whatever time/day the gym says and pay them whatever it costs!!!".

This new discovery to me that some of these 1st and 2nd grade kids are training 25+ hours a week (I really had no idea that happened, I thought those type of hours didn't start until they were literally Olympic level, like teenagers) adds another angle to my thinking in that I question this is natural ability or "specialness" that is making these kids so good at a young age, but more excessive training compared to who they are competing against.

Like are you really a "winner" if you trained 35 hours a week to get first place as an 8 YO L8 when the girl who came in second only trains 16? I'd also imagine, like the post I quoted alludes to, that at some point a "wall" would be hit where the training hours are unable to make up for the lack of natural ability. Boy would that be a rough situation to accept/handle for the young gymnast and her family...

But IDP is not like TOPS. It is a separate program, with it's own competitions and it's own levels.
A child training long hours in IDP would not be competing against a child training half the number of hours in regular levels.

I think the other thing to understand about the Australian system is that with the way the levels work now we would get very few people through to an international competition level due to the fact that we compete from level 1, most kids don't start competing until 7 or later, so working on the level a year thing wouldn't get to level 10 till 17-19.
There aren't programs working with 4 year olds learning back handsprings etc.

So the IDP stream takes children with potential talent and trains them in the skills required at the upper levels, not the skills required to compete level 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.
Yes we miss out on some talented gymnasts but I imagine in the US there are many many talented gymnasts who don't live near/attend an elite gym who are also missed at a young enough age to reach international level.
And we have far far far fewer people than the US and far fewer coaches able to train to that level.

 

[Flossyduck]

As MaryA said, I'm slightly confused as to where this sudden escalation in to discussing 7 year olds doing 25 hours a week has come from. I've re-read the OP's posts and it doesn't sound to me as though her dd is doing that number of hours. She was just asking for input from people who had been offered training during school time and either accepted it or turned it down. Innocent enough .

I don't believe any children have been harmed in the making of this thread, other than imaginary ones!

 

[Gymmommy71]

As MaryA said, I'm slightly confused as to where this sudden escalation in to discussing 7 year olds doing 25 hours a week has come from. I've re-read the OP's posts and it doesn't sound to me as though her dd is doing that number of hours. She was just asking for input from people who had been offered training during school time and either accepted it or turned it down. Innocent enough .

I don't believe any children have been harmed in the making of this thread, other than imaginary ones!

I think what happened is people, myself included, were saying things along the lines of "the amount of training that a 7YO does should easily fit into the hours when school isn't in session?". A number of 24+ hrs/week where it becomes too much to do both was mentioned, and then people said that some 7YO's *DO* train that much.

After that, it became a discussion on both points - should any/all of a school day be missed over gymnastics?, and should a 7YO train so much that they NEED to miss school?...

You're right that the number of hours that the OP's DD actually trains sounds like it's less than 25......

Either way, this is an interesting thread. Lots of varied opinions and thoughts...and it's enabled me to learn a lot about how things work in other areas/gyms/countries...

 

[Quadqueen]

As MaryA said, I'm slightly confused as to where this sudden escalation in to discussing 7 year olds doing 25 hours a week has come from. I've re-read the OP's posts and it doesn't sound to me as though her dd is doing that number of hours. She was just asking for input from people who had been offered training during school time and either accepted it or turned it down. Innocent enough .

I don't believe any children have been harmed in the making of this thread, other than imaginary ones!

you all are correct, it was not the original poster than mentioned kids doing that many hours. Another poster did mention that her 8 year old does 30 hours, and some people probably just assumed that if a coach is asking that kids be taken out of school early in the afternoon, it is because they are doing a ton of hours.

 

[Quadqueen]

Gymmommy71, I think we were posting at the same time...and you said it better, but that's what I was thinking...

 

[leotardmakermum]

Another poster did mention that her 8 year old does 30 hours

I've re-read the whole thread to try to find this. Can you point me to it, please? Maybe I missed it, but in my quick read through it didn't show up. Maybe it was deleted?

 

[Quadqueen]

Education is of the utmost importance in our household. My DH and I are highly educated and expect the same of our children. Our DD is homeschooled and trains 30 hours at gym. This schedule allows her to reach her highest potential in her sport and her education while STILL allowing time for church, friends, piano and ballet. She made the choice and excels in all areas. She is disciplined, social and talented in more than gymnastics. My DS is in public school, trains gym 12-16 hours a week, and does piano and taikwando. He does not homeschool and the balance is harder for him than his sister because of this. There is no right answer, but to assume that taking a child out of school for a sport means that there is not as much emphasis on education is a misconception. Education comes in many forms, high expectations are taught by parents, and traditional school is one means to an end. Do what works for you with an open mind for the choices others make.

Here it is...GymBeeMom's 8 year old DD does 30 hours in the gym. She doesn't say she's 8 here, but she has said it in several previous posts.

 

[GymBeeMom]

^^^^ Yup, I said it. She is 8 and does 30 hours, along with other young girls ages 8-12.

 

[leotardmakermum]

Thanks for pointing me to it.

 

[Flossyduck]

Ok I see that now, thanks, but it seems to have been blown out of proportion slightly in the thread with a number of people assuming that if they are missing school it must mean that everyone's 7 year old or other must be doing 25 hours + (I think one person even suggested there were all these children doing 40 hours, lol).

 

[Aussie_coach]

Skipping school for sports on a regular basis is just not an option in our school district unless you are home-schooling. 20 or more absences (excused or unexcused) = automatic grade retention, unless you have a waiver from the superintendent of schools.

There in lies the difference in the US school system. In many countries there is no such thing as grade retention, they beleive in social promotion. So kids are with those of a similar age regardless of how they actually achieved.

In Australia we do have grade retention but you can't do it without the parents permission and you would not do it for a lack of attendance. Not even for failing everything. The main reason is immaturity. If the teachers feel the kids would benefit from it they would discuss it with the parents and it would be decided together.

 

[Muddlethru]

Like are you really a "winner" if you trained 35 hours a week to get first place as an 8 YO L8 when the girl who came in second only trains 16? I'd also imagine, like the post I quoted alludes to, that at some point a "wall" would be hit where the training hours are unable to make up for the lack of natural ability. Boy would that be a rough situation to accept/handle for the young gymnast and her family...

Yes, I think you are a winner in every sense of the word. I too at one point made that argument (or excuse) when a competitor who I know trains 10 hours more than my daughter outscores her at a meet. Hard work is hard work and deserves admiration and not criticism. In addition, it is more likely the gymnast training 35 hours is training more advanced and harder skills than one training only 16 hours who may be only training Level 8 period. Elite skills and Olympic skills take years to master and to compete in that level. So, there is so much that goes into a training session and development of a gymnast on the road to elite or Olympics than that training a level.

Advanced training groups with longer hours are recommended as a function of talent not lack thereof. Coaches (not parents) who recommend longer/insane hours think a gymnast has great natural ability not the other way around. A good coach will not recommend a gymnast lacking in natural ability to train 15 more hours a week. (I would run away from a gym that made this recommendation and I am not talking about just adding a couple of hours to improve certain skills.)

As far as hitting a wall, a gymnast needs a qualified experienced coach so that they peak when they need to, not before or not after. I am one that likes to reserve my energy, time, resources. At the end, I always have so much left, I never truly realized my full potential or had the opportunity to push myself past where I thought I could no longer go. So, I now believe in going the distance, putting everything on the line. The skills required to reach elite status or go to the Olympics is ridiculous. And it keeps getting harder as coaches and gymnasts push for more difficult impossible skills. It is survival of the fittest. You cannot go into it half a. And unfortunately, there are no guarantees. Disappointment is high and there is very little room at the top. Nevertheless, there is room and someone will make it there.

 

[Quadqueen]

Advanced training groups with longer hours are recommended as a function of talent not lack thereof. Coaches (not parents) who recommend longer/insane hours think a gymnast has great natural ability not the other way around. A good coach will not recommend a gymnast lacking in natural ability to train 15 more hours a week. (I would run away from a gym that made this recommendation and I am not talking about just adding a couple of hours to improve certain skills.)

Interesting. You would run away from a gym who recommended a gymnast lacking in natural ability to train 15 more hours a week, but how is a parent to know whether their kid has the natural ability to "get there", or the gym just asks that the kids do insane hours to see if they can "get there"? In other words, if your gym said your gymnast should train 30 hours a week, you would assume it's because she has the natural ability to reach elite....

 

[Muddlethru]

Interesting. You would run away from a gym who recommended a gymnast lacking in natural ability to train 15 more hours a week, but how is a parent to know whether their kid has the natural ability to "get there", or the gym just asks that the kids do insane hours to see if they can "get there"? In other words, if your gym said your gymnast should train 30 hours a week, you would assume it's because she has the natural ability to reach elite....

Natural ability is easily detected. However, for a gymnast to "get there" requires more than natural ability. It requires superior coaching, hard work, sacrifices, less or no injuries, unwavering dedication and commitment to name a few.

If a coach says a young gymnast should practice 30 hours without an explanation, I would certainly run. First, it is hard enough to go the distance when all things align. A gymnast lacking in natural ability may reach her full potentail practicng insane hours, but that may still not be enough to get her onto the national team. The last statement/situation in the highlighted quote above is unlikely. It is more likely a qualified experinced coach says your daughter has the potential to go elite or make the national team. And as such, she should train more hours to prepare her for that path. This is no longer an assumption but a fact.

 

[Quadqueen]

I understand what you're saying....I just think there are very different opinions on whether an 8 year old should be practicing 30 hours a week, whether the coach thinks they have the talent or not. And clearly, there are lots of coaches who don't think this is a good idea. Where do they go from there? 45 hours a week by age 12? Obviously, each parent can do what they choose for their children, I'm just trying to understand.

 

[Gymmommy71]

There was a post that implied that the identification of natural ability isn't always correct at the really young ages. I would suspect that in at least some cases the coaches are "off"...not sure though.

Coaches - can you comment on this? Can you always tell an "elite caliber" gymnast from just a "regular gymnast" (you know one that will peak at only L9/L10...haha, likes thats "bad" or something ) just by watching them for a short amount of time at age 5/6/7? Or does it sometimes take a while to pan out?