Parents Missing school for training

[GymBee97]

School always comes first here.

At 7yo she has plenty of time to be great and if your gym has a good team program she really won't need the "extra" program to be great.

 

[Krystan]

I SO wish we had this philosophy here! I think we place way too much emphasis on education and not enough on family development. And you are correct. Our current system subscribes to the Notion that school is the only place where "true" learning takes place. I think it comes from the test/results driven system we have in place. And that everyone needs a college education to be successful. We have essentially done away with out trade/career programs in favor of college for everyone, which is of course, unattainable.

We homeschool for various reasons but a major factor its the time element. We like spending time as a family. We don't feel the need to have our children sit in a classroom for 7 hours a day when they can do their work in less than half that time. Gives them more time to explore their interests whether it be sports, arts, or more academics...

This is why homeschool too! Less time sitting behind a desk and more time *really* learning, playing, reading, living, running around outside. A LOT more time with family. And that's in addition to training 12 hours per week. More time to be a kid! Yes, education is very important to me, and THAT'S why I homeschool!

As for the OP, we shouldn't be quick to judge. Different things work for different families. I think it is different in Canada where you have to choose the national stream from a very young age. I don't think they can opt in later. If that were the case in the US, you might have a different opinion.

 

[GymBeeMom]

As much as my daughter loves gymnastics, I know if I had put her into any program that required her to go 25 hours a week when she was only 7, she would have hated it and quit by now. I can't believe these 7 year olds are okay w/ this and aren't crying frequently about how much they have to train, but they apparently are more dedicated than my DD (and I'm sure the vast majority of the teammates she's had over the years).

How do some of these girls who do those types hours from a young age fare after they get 5-6 years into things and something happens where they have to quit? What if they realize that they just don't want to do it anymore?

I suppose it would be the same as anyone else choosing to do something else. We change the plan, because that's life sometimes. No different than any other well-laid plan changing. As far as starting young, that is what the sport dictates for young elite hopefuls. If she stops being happy, we will change the course. The benefit of her youth is that there is plenty of time to reinvent herself a hundred times. I have reinvented myself more than once in my own lifetime. As for school, she is meeting and exceeding state regulations and has high standardized test scores, while maintaining straight A's. I am sure she will be well-prepared for public or private school should she wish to attend.

I tend to notice very strong opinions against this path, and I really struggle to understand why.

 

[MaryA]

I tend to notice very strong opinions against this path, and I really struggle to understand why.

Anything that has to do with parenting and the decisions we make for our kids garners this kind of response. When my girls were wee I belonged to a Capital Hill mother's group (we have since moved off "The Hill") and you should have seen the "discussions" (heated arguments) that came up whenever topics like Ferber (to let them cry or not) or breast feeding came up! And we all actually knew each other! Personally I think it grows out of our very real desire to "get it right" and our fear that we might not.

 

[GymBeeMom]

25-30 hours seems extreme at 7 or 8 years old. Any of the experienced coaches want to weigh in - Dunno? Is this really necessary??

No. Not necessary. It is a choice for those that want to do it. If they don't, they don't have to. She is 8 years old, almost 9 and has held this schedule very well. I guess if it got to be too much at some point, we would re-evaluate. She is quite capable of expressing her needs and wants, and as her parents we are very in tune to how well she copes. I agree, this would not be for the average 7,8, 9 year old, or the average adult for that matter. Extraordinary children find their gifts in a variety of places and I know there are parents who choose to put their young gifted musicians in music conservatories, swimmers who wake their children up at 4:30 to swim before school, and parents of brilliant children who study with their kids more than i would ever imagine doing with my own. For my dd, this works. She gets to bed at 8:00, she eats well, plays hard and works hard. So far, so good.

 

[OzZee]

What so many repliers seem to be missing is for the OP, in her country, in her gym, in the stream her dd is in, yes it is necessary, it is how it's done there.
Personally I think it sounds like a better way of creating a good school/gym/family/sleep timetable for a child training long hours than them being in the gym every day till late at night. I know I find only 12 hours and getting home at 8pm 3 nights a week is draining on a family with small/other children to consider. With three children we never get the chance of a family meal during the week.

Though I have to agree that in Australia we don't seem to view schooling the same way. My children don't have to attend every day to get great results (though I have one that has had one day off in 5 years and that was for a long weekend holiday and she was horrified by that, lol), so much of mainstream schooling is fillers. Not that they aren't fun, or educational or worthwhile but at the same time so can a visit to a museum or going to a competition, going on holiday, or just some plain mummy and me time.
Any school work missed can be easily made up.

The long hours at an early age in countries where gymnasts are streamed is not for everyone (and was one of the reasons we chose not to go down that path) but it is part of the program if that is where you want to head.

 

[aussiebug]

My 8 year old misses 15 minutes at the end of school on a Tuesday to get to gym on time.

I know she'll probably have to miss more when she progresses through the levels, I dont know how much missing I'll be ok with, but as she's ndp 1 it's early days yet.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using ChalkBucket mobile app

 

[2G1B]

I think that MaryA is exactly right. I also think that many people have very strong feelings that their way is "the right way". Even before my kids were in gymnastics I have always been open to the option of homeschooling should we be in a situation where my husband and I decide it is the best thing for our kids. But many of my friends are very against homeschooling, they point out that parents don't have the degree, what ever else. They also often point out the social aspect (I don't see this as totally valid since there are so many opportunities for kids to interact outside of school - gymnastics, rec sports, swim team, music classes, art classes, etc).

I do think that it would be a big disruption in public schools to have a student regularly missing afternoon classes, especially for most elementary schools. At least in my area, we don't have PE only in the afternoon. My twins actually both do "specials" (PE, Art, Music) in the mornings, about 40 minutes after school starts. They are doing science in the afternoons usually. As it is, a good portion of their class misses normal class once per week for their gifted class (their class just happens to have a lot of kids in gifted, other classes only have a few kids in it. On gifted class days they do specials with their normal class; but the rest of the day is spent with the gifted teacher/class). So that leaves 4 days per week for the teacher to teach the curriculum. If there were a kid then missing 2 of those 4 afternoons (and it is very possible that the athletic kid would also be in gifted), it would leave her with at best 2 days per week with the entire class there for a the entire day.

It sounds like other countries have their public schools set up to allow sports training. I have a friend who's kids are in school in TX and in her school system PE is apparently always in the afternoon. Kids on elite teams (gymnastics, swim, what ever) can leave school before PE and go to practice instead. So in some areas of the US it is possible to do this w/o causing a disruption to the classes in public schools. In other areas of the country IMO it would be best to consider home schooling or find a private school that could work with the schedule. I also bet that high schools, or even middle schools, could potentially be better equipped to handle a schedule like this. It seems very tough for elementary school though...

 

[gymdog]

Homeschooling is great. Homeschooling just for gymnastics is questionable. Unless the child has already achieved a high level (I have never seen a 7 year old achieve this level, not realistic) then I don't think the family should make such a drastic lifestyle change solely to do gymnastics during the day. If you want to just homeschool then great.

And 25-30 hours for a 7 year old is not normal or advisable. There are 8 year olds in level 8 that go 15 hours a week in the afternoons and weekends. For what purpose is a 7 year old doing 10 hours more than this? They have not achieved a level that requires this amount of training. Many of the girls on the Olympic team were in public school even in high school. Maybe not full time but my guess is most of them were at 7. I hope anyone who is doing this is at a proven national training center.

 

[GymBeeMom]

I can't speak for everyone, and don't mean to beat a dead horse, but there is one point that I find important to make. FOr us, we chose homeschool for dd when she chose to commit so much time to her sport. We didn't choose it so she could do gymnastics. She could have done gymnastics at night,since our gym also offers that. We have a TOPS national team member who attends public school and does quite well at gym and school. We have had national team members that attended public school. We chose it so we could offer her more balance in the life that came with gymnastics. We didn't want her at the gym until 8:30 every night as a a young child and missing every night with her family. WE didn't want her doing homework late at night when she got older after a full day of school and a night of practice. She also wants to take piano, ballet, and who knows what else she may want to try. This lifestyle gave us time for all the parts of herself she wanted to develop. I was a teacher, and felt qualified to teach my child. She was the right kid for it, and we went with it for the sake of balance, not exactly FOR gymnastics, though I suppose ultimately it could be argued it was for gymnastics.

As for the hours she trains, we are at a proven national training center and this is what they felt she was ready for. Most days, I agree it was the right path for now. Time will tell, and we are flexible as her needs and wishes change. She will know she tried and if she ever changes her mind or gets injured and can't pursue this path, we will be grateful she had the unique experiences that came with this lifestyle.

There are national team members who went to public school and some who homeschooled from a young age. There is no one proper path to elite dreams.

I find other countries and cultures fascinating, and have loved learning how other countries handle this sport and so many other aspects of life.

 

[leotardmakermum]

People keep asking "Why so many hours?" I do feel it is horses for courses, and what seems very strange to you may seem completely normal to another. We're all different after all. However, I would like to refer you to an interesting blog post that deals with the amount of training and how early it needs to be completed by.

The 10,000 Hour Elite Excellence Dilemma

 

[Ariekannairb]

Just want to add to the "school comes first" thing. This phrase is tossed around as if a brick and mortar building from 8am-3pm is the only place school can happen. Real learning happens in the real world anyways. That 3 hours of school most likely has an hour of busy work, 30 minutes or so of bathroom breaks, "Johnny don't kick the desk in front of you", "yes, you may sharpen your pencil" and the like with very little of it being actual teaching. Learning doesn't come first. It comes all the time, everywhere.

 

[gymdog]

People keep asking "Why so many hours?" I do feel it is horses for courses, and what seems very strange to you may seem completely normal to another. We're all different after all. However, I would like to refer you to an interesting blog post that deals with the amount of training and how early it needs to be completed by.

The 10,000 Hour Elite Excellence Dilemma

Okay, well I suppose you have an argument IF you agree with that article. I don't agree with it. Gabby Douglas competed as an 8 year old level 4. Won states. I believe the kids will do the skills when they are ready. If they are not ready then not 40 hours of training a week will change it. Obviously it takes a lot of training to maintain elite status but we are not talking about that, we are talking about 7 year olds when clearly Olympic champions were not even competing at 7 in some cases! You need to have some perspective. If you choose this path then I hope it works out for you, but I would not choose this path for my own child.

 

[OzZee]

But gymdog in some countries there is no different path if your child wishes to reach international competition. If they are not in the international stream then they can't. So an 8 year old starting out (which in Australia would still be competing level 1, that's where everyone starts) wouldn't make it, they wouldn't be in the right stream and would not be able to get into that stream.

And yes it's not for everyone, we are one such family that didn't choose that path when offered it. But for many children and their families it is the path they choose to go down.

 

[gymdog]

But gymdog in some countries there is no different path if your child wishes to reach international competition. If they are not in the international stream then they can't. So an 8 year old starting out (which in Australia would still be competing level 1, that's where everyone starts) wouldn't make it, they wouldn't be in the right stream and would not be able to get into that stream.

And yes it's not for everyone, we are one such family that didn't choose that path when offered it. But for many children and their families it is the path they choose to go down.

This has been stated over and over on this board so I am aware of the circumstances. Not a problem for me or everyone in this thread. Wouldn't choose it, not convinced of its efficacy but I am not involved so there's not much I can say about it that hasn't already been said. Obviously there is a glaring problem here in that the best gymnast in the world could join gymnastics in your country at 7 or 8 and clearly this is still enough time to be a very accomplished gymnast in my experience but they will not be able to do it. I can't say I feel this is the best system but clearly the powers that be in your country disagree with me.

Again the physical and mental readiness of the child is going to dictate skill acquisition. Training is important in that proper conditioning and basics are necessary both to avoid injury and achieve technical success. But the bottom line is the innate talent of the child dictates a lot. While hard work can overcome a lot, there are some physical traits necessary for elite gymnastics. McKayla Maroney was part excellent coaching (Gym Max has consistently produced amazing vaulters) and part excellent genetics (very fast muscle type). Even in the way she runs you can see she is set apart from the most elite gymnasts in the world. Without technical coaching there is nothing, again no coincidence the best vaulter in the world was trained by one of the best vault coaches in the world.

So anyway, the bottom line is I don't believe anything of the sort about X numbers of hours equaling success. Gymnastics is a sport that requires incremental improvement and pacing. Training is always ongoing and is never going to be a minor couple hours a week pursuit, but there is still a lot of middle ground. People post on here about their child struggling with basic skills and then yet they do more hours than average...it makes me wonder. I don't think the children should be pushed. When they are ready they will do it and for young elementary ages they don't need more than 15 hours a week. If it is taking so much time to do basic skills (level 7 skills are basic) then the child was not ready. What is the value added of all this time? It just doesn't add up to me.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Actually you don't have to join the IDP system in our country until age 9 or 10. Kids can change over from the regular stream but it. Is very rarely done because they won't have the skills the kids who have been training international level from age 5 has.

i am sure the powers that be in our country would take an amazing 15 year old who trained in the wrong stream if she had the ability to compete internationally. But it has never happened before.

 

[GymGirl's Mom]

That's a tough call. I know a few children who have early dismissals for sports a few days a week. My only fear is that I would be careful to not encourage the thought process of sport are more important than school. Your body will get old, and someday you won't be able to do the stuff you could when you were 7, but your mind will still be strong- exercise that brain muscle. My kids know school is their #1 priority- always!

 

[Faith]

My parents always told me that school was more important than sport. I really regret listening to them .

Honestly, I gave up my sports dreams for school, and I so wish I hadn't. I'm an overqualified pharmacist with a PhD, who can't find a job that will work around kids. And the wages are terrible.

If I had my time again I'd do the sport while my body was young enough, and then focus on the academia later. Going to uni at 21 instead of 18 is no biggie, and I'd have done sports science or biomechanics, or something related to coaching, and had a career in sport, which is what I'm best at. Better money too!

So as I said I'd have few issues with missing school if we could work it. My issue is I have doubts over whether it is necessary before age 10. If you take all the 8/9 year olds starting out on elite track in the UK, a large percentage won't pass level 2 at 11 to enter espoir (HOPES to you, I think) and junior elite.

We have an 8 year old elite track kid who only trains 9 hours a week. She will pass level 4 easily on those hours, and probably progress without the hours. The club did try upping her hours to 15, but the kid just stopped wanting to go to gym at all.

DH and I often have this discussion about so many hours so young (he's a runner, so a sport where you don't need to build up the hours until later). I tend to agree with him- if you have an 8 year old putting in 25 hours a week to keep up with their peers, the hours are only going to increase and there will be a point where you can't do enough hours to keep on top.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

This has been stated over and over on this board so I am aware of the circumstances. Not a problem for me or everyone in this thread. Wouldn't choose it, not convinced of its efficacy but I am not involved so there's not much I can say about it that hasn't already been said. Obviously there is a glaring problem here in that the best gymnast in the world could join gymnastics in your country at 7 or 8 and clearly this is still enough time to be a very accomplished gymnast in my experience but they will not be able to do it. I can't say I feel this is the best system but clearly the powers that be in your country disagree with me.

IDP is like TOPS, throw the word IDP around and the parents think their child is so wonderful and will drive them to gymnastics more and/or further and will commit to more. Only worse because they will take kids who can't even cartwheel yet into an IDP program. Older kids certainly get the opportunity if they show talent, plus they are needed to take the spots of the untalented kids who were basically there (sometimes from age 4) to fill spaces and cover the cost of running the program. Some of the better kids actually started later. So if you tell a parent their kid needs to leave school early most will buy into it because they are in IDP (and that makes them special)

So anyway, the bottom line is I don't believe anything of the sort about X numbers of hours equaling success. Gymnastics is a sport that requires incremental improvement and pacing....

People post on here about their child struggling with basic skills and then yet they do more hours than average...it makes me wonder.

This is a real problem with the IDP kids who get sent back to the club, in many cases I think they are below average in talent for a competitive gymnasts, but they have trained over 20 hours a week for a long time. Suddenly their hours drop and they really struggle to maintain strength/flexibility and skills. Add in a parent who bought into how wonderful an IDP program is and it is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Muddlethru]

My first instinct was to respond like the majority. But after more thought and reading posts supporting modifyng the school schedule, if faced with the same dilemma, I would not be too quickly to dismiss sacrificing school. If the school your daughter is in can accommodate her absences without major consequences, why not? That would be ideal. If however, they will not allow these regular absences, I would have a serious talk with the coach and find out the attainable goals of my daughter with the suggested stream, consequences, additional sacrifices etc.

Inasmuch as I am a huge advocate of education, excelling and finding fulfillment and success outside school is equally important. The experiences gained will never be learned in the classroom. Schools aren't going anywhere. The life span of a gymnast is so short. There is a caveat though, you can be a very successful gymnast without being homeschooled or sacrificing too much of school too. If the goal is not elite or Olympics! I probably would not make changes to my daughtee's schedule. But if that is the goal, I would go for it. I've had regrets about not pursuing a dream/passion in place of stability and financial success. I am now too old to pursue the dream but I can still go to school for more advance degrees if I wanted.