WAG Mobility question anyone!

[mmcmanus]

So last night at the parents meeting coach said so and so won level 5 last year and so she will be moving up to level 5 this year, and so and so won level 4 last year so they would be moving up to new level 4 this year and my daughter and her teammate would be doing level 5 and then right into 7, yadayadayada...and then he saw my face with a blank stare as he never mentioned my DDs success winning Level 6 AA, BEAM, AND VAULT, 2nd on floor and fourth on bars..., and so then he said "and (my daughter) won level 6 last year and he would talk to her and her parents... " And I was thinking, why are all the other kids who won moving up? And mine isn't? Dont you see whats wrong with this picture? And also, he told them all they were moving to 7 last year, and started working right after compulsory state meet, but didnt compete them. And he kept talking and I kept thinking this is crazy.

But I know, he wants to win, and he has no excuse like she doesn't have skills or she is afraid, or hit a wall, she has actually continued to excel in spite of him. So she went to gym tonight and he confronted her and said he could see that her mom was not wanting her to compete level 5, and he tried to bully her about it, in front of all the kids of course, twice during workout. and she didn't want to talk about it during workout. But he kept at her. she insists that she does NOT want to compete it, but she didn't want to tell him because she knows he will bully her about it, so she said her parents didnt want her to. And so he started picking on her and told her she needed to improve her tumbling. then he said that she IS going to compete level 5 and if her parents have a problem with it we can come talk to him. And then he threatened her with a how would she feel if she didn't compete it and he decided not to compete her in level 7 this year, so she would go more than a year without a competition...trying negative pressure to make her compete, and he was doing this to her based on his perception of the blank face I gave him during the meeting. I am beginning to feel that he is a big baby and there is no winning this one at all. We told DD that we are very concerned and want the best for her. we said she has 3 choices: compete 5 for him and risk him not competing her in the spring and continue to put up with his negative tactics and broken promises, and probably end up quitting like everyone else who gets past level 7 in his gym, or quit gymnastics or think about moving to another gym. I asked her if we could go to a workout at another gym just to see what she thinks of their workout. She cried. She is scared. But I think she is starting to see the light... What a rotten mess. I am so mad at him.

 

[Gym Beam]

I would be very tempted to make an executive decision and just take her out of there. There's really no excuse for this kind of behavior IMHO. Good luck and I really do hope you move to another gym.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I recommend you speak with him before jumping ship. Just to make sure all the information is accurate and hash it out, or at least give it a try. He must be somewhat decent, since your DD sounds like she does extremely well at state each year.

 

[mmcmanus]

Sorry my anger comes out here but please know that we didn't present this to my daughter the way I said it in previous post. We were very calm and not demeaning to coach when talking with her. We weren't threatening at all like my post probably sounds. We just let her know that we have concerns, and we lover her and want her to reach whatever potential she aspires to tap into, and we are not sure that will be possible if she stays there because he thinks he is doing best, but we dont agree. We let her know that we are happy to advocate for her to him but only if she is willing to leave if he gets nasty. We told her we would support her if she wants to compete, quit or move, but we want her to think about it. She said she never wants to quit. I hope she will see the need to move on her own.

 

[mmcmanus]

I would be very tempted to make an executive decision and just take her out of there. There's really no excuse for this kind of behavior IMHO. Good luck and I really do hope you move to another gym.

We are tempted

 

[mmcmanus]

I recommend you speak with him before jumping ship. Just to make sure all the information is accurate and hash it out, or at least give it a try. He must be somewhat decent, since your DD sounds like she does extremely well at state each year.

Thank you! We will talk to him but only if she is willing to move, because I know that he digs his heels in and it wont do any good if we dont agree with whatever he says. I know the information is correct because i know how he operates. Ive seen the bullying in action and all the parents after level 4 go through this tension of whether we should put up with the bullying or not. We all wonder if we are bad parents for letting this go on. All other problems aside, we went through this exact issue when she was level 4. We moved from another gym after her first season of 4 (she was 7) due to schedule conflict, and then he competed her level 4 again when she was 8 and she won AA, beam and bars. Then he didn't have a great 5 team but with her he could win 4 again, so after training 5s all year, now she was 9 and he said he wanted her to do 4s again. She cried. She was sick of 4s and she had won. She had all level 5 skills and was told all year she was a 5 and then right at season start he said 4. He asked what she wanted to do and when she said she didn't want to compete 4 again he got mad and said she would. She did two or three meets and scored 38s. It was embarrassing because she was so much better than others and she looked like a level 4 pro. So, he realized how ridiculous it was, maybe judges or coaches from other gyms razzed him, so mid season he moved her to 5. She did two meets and state, but since she hadn't been working the routines it was hard on her. And she won first in beam in state, and of course he made her repeat 5 since she didn't have a full season, and she was okay with it because she didn't get the full season, then, she won 5 and went to 6 last year and won 6. So here we are again and now she is twelve and while all kids move and develop at their own rate, her former teammates from her first gym are in level 7 second year or level 8. And so I wonder how much we have already cost her...but we won't yank her. We will proceed with caution.

 

[saddlupasb]

I recommend you speak with him before jumping ship. Just to make sure all the information is accurate and hash it out, or at least give it a try. He must be somewhat decent, since your DD sounds like she does extremely well at state each year.

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Does winning trump all the negatives? I don't think so. She has won every level AA at state for him and he is stuck on that vs going forward with her. This is obviously about him and not the gymnasts.

She's going to feel uncomfortable and nervous moving. She's 12. She is plenty old enough to understand that she's going no where at this gym. Look at his track record.

 

[mmcmanus]

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Does winning trump all the negatives? I don't think so. She has won every level AA at state for him and he is stuck on that vs going forward with her. This is obviously about him and not the gymnasts.

She's going to feel uncomfortable and nervous moving. She's 12. She is plenty old enough to understand that she's going no where at this gym. Look at his track record.

True, when I look at the only girl at a higher level left, she was told she would compete as an 8 after two level 6 seasons and two level 7 seasons and now he says maybe she will be a level 7 again. Three years? If a gymnast had any talent at all and no fears, (and she doesn't) and a coach can't progress them one level in 2 years, there is a problem, some of which may be the 10 hour a week thing...

 

[bookworm]

Thank you! We will talk to him but only if she is willing to move, because I know that he digs his heels in and it wont do any good if we dont agree with whatever he says. I know the information is correct because i know how he operates. Ive seen the bullying in action and all the parents after level 4 go through this tension of whether we should put up with the bullying or not. We all wonder if we are bad parents for letting this go on. All other problems aside, we went through this exact issue when she was level 4.

So here we are again and now she is twelve and while all kids move and develop at their own rate, her former teammates from her first gym are in level 7 second year or level 8. And so I wonder how much we have already cost her...but we won't yank her. We will proceed with caution.

Ok time to throw caution to the wind...and get her out of there whether she wants to go or not ...the situation as described is not healthy for anyone there, and by staying there, you validate his behavior and the way he treats your kid and you. It's almost like kids have Stockholm Syndrome when they don't want to leave a coach who is horrible to them but I agree with other posters, the time for the executive decision to move is now...and I feel your pain because I have done this very thing, with my daughter crying in the back of the car, saying I was "ruining her life" by taking her out of a gym, but she adjusted, made great friends at her new gym and did well...and so will your daughter...

 

[mmcmanus]

Ok time to throw caution to the wind...and get her out of there whether she wants to go or not ...the situation as described is not healthy for anyone there, and by staying there, you validate his behavior and the way he treats your kid and you. It's almost like kids have Stockholm Syndrome when they don't want to leave a coach who is horrible to them but I agree with other posters, the time for the executive decision to move is now...and I feel your pain because I have done this very thing, with my daughter crying in the back of the car, saying I was "ruining her life" by taking her out of a gym, but she adjusted, made great friends at her new gym and did well...and so will your daughter...

Thank you so much for this because we are anguishing about this. I am infuriated that he would pressure my 12 year old when he thinks that we, as her parents are opposed, not her. in his mind he is creating division between a 12 year old and her parents. how is that okay? Because as far as he knows it has nothing to do with her. In all reality she gets very upset about the thought of competing it because she absolutely does not want to and a month ago she was given the choice of just training for the 7 season or competing 5 and now he took that away from her. He plays with their heads. She does not want to compete it. We are trying to open her to moving and praying that we move in the right direction. There are only 2 alternatives, one is where she left at 7 where she has been beating the girls and it is cliquish, but her best friend is an 8 or 9, and the other has very nice kids (she knows some of them) but the judge I know says they aren't very good... Why did we not act long ago when we started to see issues? I feel terrible for her.

 

[happychaos]

So last night at the parents meeting coach said so and so won level 5 last year and so she will be moving up to level 5 this year, and so and so won level 4 last year so they would be moving up to new level 4 this year and my daughter and her teammate would be doing level 5 and then right into 7, yadayadayada...and then he saw my face with a blank stare as he never mentioned my DDs success winning Level 6 AA, BEAM, AND VAULT, 2nd on floor and fourth on bars..., and so then he said "and (my daughter) won level 6 last year and he would talk to her and her parents... " And I was thinking, why are all the other kids who won moving up? And mine isn't? Dont you see whats wrong with this picture? And also, he told them all they were moving to 7 last year, and started working right after compulsory state meet, but didnt compete them. And he kept talking and I kept thinking this is crazy.

But I know, he wants to win, and he has no excuse like she doesn't have skills or she is afraid, or hit a wall, she has actually continued to excel in spite of him. So she went to gym tonight and he confronted her and said he could see that her mom was not wanting her to compete level 5, and he tried to bully her about it, in front of all the kids of course, twice during workout. and she didn't want to talk about it during workout. But he kept at her. she insists that she does NOT want to compete it, but she didn't want to tell him because she knows he will bully her about it, so she said her parents didnt want her to. And so he started picking on her and told her she needed to improve her tumbling. then he said that she IS going to compete level 5 and if her parents have a problem with it we can come talk to him. And then he threatened her with a how would she feel if she didn't compete it and he decided not to compete her in level 7 this year, so she would go more than a year without a competition...trying negative pressure to make her compete, and he was doing this to her based on his perception of the blank face I gave him during the meeting. I am beginning to feel that he is a big baby and there is no winning this one at all. We told DD that we are very concerned and want the best for her. we said she has 3 choices: compete 5 for him and risk him not competing her in the spring and continue to put up with his negative tactics and broken promises, and probably end up quitting like everyone else who gets past level 7 in his gym, or quit gymnastics or think about moving to another gym. I asked her if we could go to a workout at another gym just to see what she thinks of their workout. She cried. She is scared. But I think she is starting to see the light... What a rotten mess. I am so mad at him.

I would swear you were talking about DD's former coach, except DD's former coach is a "she" not a "he". Switching gyms was difficult, but it was the decision I had to make for her. Her new gym is very good. They do not sandbag, and therefore they do not win quite as much. That is hard for my DD on the 6 or 7 days per year that they have meets. But the environment in the gym on the many other days of year is so much better it is worth it.

Look, you have already decided that the environment in the gym is negatively impacting your DD, both emotionally and gymnastically. Your DD may never be totally onboard with a gym switch. It might be a decision that you, as a parent, have to make for her. The first few months at the new gym was hard for my DD. They have a different coaching and training style. But now she loves it, and she is making great progress. I would take her to a few workouts at the new gym, and explain to her all the positives. While you may not want to trash talk DD's current coach, you should certainly explain to her that the way she is being treated is not acceptable. And she is old enough to understand sandbagging. Kids are resistant to the unknown. Once she settles in at the new gym, she will be fine.

 

[2G1B]

Of my 3 kids, only my sun was happy about changing gyms. Even for him, that only happened when his BFF decided to swap also. Both of my girls were NOT happy about it. But I knew it was the right thing to do and it was a decision that my husband and I had to make despite the protests from the kids.

 

[gymmomtoo]

There are several people here who could tell you that they forced their daughters to switch gyms and wish they had done it sooner. You have more experience than she does and can see that this is the best move for her--the gym she is at and that coach is NOT a good place for her. I would move now before you get any closer to season.

 

[mariposa]

It sounds like a change is needed. Do it now, so she can find a gym where she can start training for 6/7 sooner, rather than later, start getting her routines, etc.

Good luck.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[mmcmanus]

It sounds like a change is needed. Do it now, so she can find a gym where she can start training for 6/7 sooner, rather than later, start getting her routines, etc.

Good luck.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

I agree and sadly feel I put her in a bad situation! But we talked about things and she is getting les upset about the idea of leaving. I just hope we get her in the best place possible because this moving gyms stinks. I hope she will be level 7 champ and show him that it isn't all about him...

 

[mmcmanus]

There are several people here who could tell you that they forced their daughters to switch gyms and wish they had done it sooner. You have more experience than she does and can see that this is the best move for her--the gym she is at and that coach is NOT a good place for her. I would move now before you get any closer to season.

Thank you for building my courage! She is coming on board...

 

[mmcmanus]

I would swear you were talking about DD's former coach, except DD's former coach is a "she" not a "he". Switching gyms was difficult, but it was the decision I had to make for her. Her new gym is very good. They do not sandbag, and therefore they do not win quite as much. That is hard for my DD on the 6 or 7 days per year that they have meets. But the environment in the gym on the many other days of year is so much better it is worth it.

Look, you have already decided that the environment in the gym is negatively impacting your DD, both emotionally and gymnastically. Your DD may never be totally onboard with a gym switch. It might be a decision that you, as a parent, have to make for her. The first few months at the new gym was hard for my DD. They have a different coaching and training style. But now she loves it, and she is making great progress. I would take her to a few workouts at the new gym, and explain to her all the positives. While you may not want to trash talk DD's current coach, you should certainly explain to her that the way she is being treated is not acceptable. And she is old enough to understand sandbagging. Kids are resistant to the unknown. Once she settles in at the new gym, she will be fine.

Thank you so much. Maybe you live in my town since there is a female coach just like him!

 

[LMV]

I'm inferring that the coach you are talking about is also the head coach. I think you, your husband, and this coach (plus a head coach and or the owner if these are separate entities from this coach) need to sit down and discuss your concerns that the coach is not acting with your daughter's best interests. I would also bring up (with specific concrete examples) the concern about conduct and bullying at practice. Unless the coach seems to really hear you and have plan for changing (or I suppose unless there is a different HC or owner who suggests a solution where your child has no more contact with this individual) how they interact with your child then I would explore other opportunities for your child.

Trust me, I know this isn't easy. We were in a similar situation a few years ago. Like you we were in disagreement with the HC about what level our daughter would compete but that really wasn't the most important aspect (and I sense from your posts that this isn't the big issue for you either). What really concerned us was things he said to us (and things we were afraid he would say to her). We really didn't have a good alternative gym option so we were looking at having her take at least a brief break if we couldn't work things out. We knew that wasn't what she wanted but we also felt that in the long run it was what would have to happen if we couldn't ensure the situation was going to be better.

In our case, the meeting with the HC and owners did at least result in the HC really hearing our concerns about our daughter. We also decided to trust that he truly believed that the level he wanted her to compete was in her best interest and we tried to go with it with some reservations. A part of me definitely wondered if I was taking the easy way out and if I was going along with something I wasn't quite comfortable with because I didn't want to disappoint her. My husband felt similarly but we decided that since we weren't certain that we would just proceed with caution and be ready to adapt as needed. In retrospect, I do think he was always trying to do what he thought was best for her. He was a bit misguided at times but he has been open to learning and now we truly consider him a trusted positive adult in her life. If your daughter's coach is truly working from a position where he believes that he is doing what is right for her then I open that your meeting opens up the communication process. If he isn't starting from that place then I think she is probably much better off in a different program. Good luck.

 

[happychaos]

True, when I look at the only girl at a higher level left, she was told she would compete as an 8 after two level 6 seasons and two level 7 seasons and now he says maybe she will be a level 7 again. Three years? If a gymnast had any talent at all and no fears, (and she doesn't) and a coach can't progress them one level in 2 years, there is a problem, some of which may be the 10 hour a week thing...

Go. Go now. This coach does not have a successful optionals program. Your DD loves the sport, works hard, and is obviously talented. She deserves a program that will take her as far as she wants to go. She deserves a coach that has her best interests at heart. Even if you somehow convince the coach to let her move-up, he seems like the vindictive type.

You said that all the other optional level girls have left (BIG RED FLAG). Where have they gone, and how happy are they? You could always phone a mom that took her DD elsewhere, and ask her about the experience.

You said that you would not move DD against her wishes. Would you at least consider having her (even if she doesn't want to) work out at another gym for a few days? Once she is in another gym, she may realize it isn't so bad after all.

 

[mmcmanus]

I'm inferring that the coach you are talking about is also the head coach.

Yes, only coach except 1 college and 2 high school girls

I think you, your husband, and this coach (plus a head coach and or the owner if these are separate entities from this coach) need to sit down and discuss your concerns that the coach is not acting with your daughter's best interests. I would also bring up (with specific concrete examples) the concern about conduct and bullying at practice. Unless the coach seems to really hear...

He most definitely will not. We can get no where if we disagree with anything. He is very unreasonable...

If your daughter's coach is truly working from a position where he believes that he is doing what is right for her then I open that your meeting opens up the communication process. If he isn't starting from that place then I think she is probably much better off in a different program. Good luck.

I am very sad to realize that he is not coming from that place. I am giving my daughter some of the control he took from her. We are going to visit 2 gyms team workouts this weekend and I think she will choose to go back to her very first gym where her best friend goes. She is starting to adjust, but has gym tonight and tomorrow, so that will probably stir things up. I am not going to talk to him until we have something else lined up because he won't budge and will end up being rude as he has in the past so we need an alternative first. Thanks so much for your advice! I do appreciate it, and I am so glad for your daughter that it worked out for her to stay!