WAG More lost sponsors for USAG

[Deleted member 14190]

Stupid question, but what is national congress?

It's an educational gymnastics gathering, with multiple classes and a trade show at the same time .

 

[Gymmommy71]

Did you even read strawberry post?

Yeah I read it - it said he/she thinks over watched kids have issues w/ their gymnastics and owning their sport - I said yeah, I realize there are risks involved w/ parents being there too much, but I think protecting kids from abuse is more important - and that’s exactly how I feel.

I’m not saying parents have to or should watch an entire team practice - but can you appreciate how much easier it is for a predator to opperate a gym that prohibits parent viewing versus one that doesn’t?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Yeah I read it - it said he/she thinks over watched kids have issues w/ their gymnastics and owning their sport - I said yeah, I realize there are risks involved w/ parents being there too much, but I think protecting kids from abuse is more important - and that’s exactly how I feel.

I’m not saying parents have to or should watch an entire team practice - but can you appreciate how much easier it is for a predator to opperate a gym that prohibits parent viewing versus one that doesn’t?

I know what you said .... amd that wasn't it but your clarification at least makes sense

 

[strawberries]

This may be, but would you rather these gymnasts be molested by a predatory coach while alone in the gym for 4-6 hours straight when the predator knows parents are forbidden/unable to watch? To me it’s an easy decision...and I’m sure the rational that you gave is exactly what those who forbid parents at the ranch while kids were abused used as the justification for why they couldn’t be there. Meanwhile Nassar was alone w/ gymnasts in cabins.

And not every parent that watches their kid do gymnastics destroys their progress. I’d say a kid who made it to the ranch and/or high level optionals w/ their parent watching is doing just fine.

Did you even read strawberry post?

I had also thought that maybe you saw that I was against parent viewing, and didn’t notice that I also said I was NOT talking about an EMPTY or UNOBSERVED gym. I probably should have clarified that I was picturing a gym with no less than 10-20 parents viewing at any time, but REC parents. In terms of parents being forbidden, that doesn’t feel like the tone I meant. I do think it makes a difference that it is not a locked door or secludeded, private area, but one where staff and parents of other programs go in and out freely, and even team parents can theoretically pop in at any time to give a message to a coach about an injury, or drop off something for the gymnast, or help prepare for the Holiday party or booster club meeting, etc., they just can’t camp out with their families and their dinners and their eagle eyes, counting turns on the bars.

I do think we are on the same side on this issue (that is trying to protect the children!) but might be seeing different ways to best accomplish it. There was a time when I would have instinctively agreed with you about parent viewing being necessary, and then I actually experienced and lived through extreme versions of viewing and non-viewing gyms (as well as lots and lots and lots of non-extreme versions). You probably couldn’t have convinced me until I saw it for myself. The difference in gymnast/parent/gym “healthiness” was like two different worlds. I would love to see a poll of people who had actually experienced both versions. The difference is more striking than I can describe.

The fact that a kids gets to the ranch does NOT mean they are okay...um, clearly. As has often been cited, the disaster in USA gymnastics is not only a function of poor policies, but even more fundamentally a function of the culture that allows those policies to exist. I don’t know all the factors that form that culture, but I suspect that when parents log hours in the gym w/ their TOPS kid, they become untethered to the outside world, their neighbors or common sense. They say yes to crazy policies and a secluded ranch that no normal parent would consider.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I would love to see a poll of people who had actually experienced both versions. The difference is more striking than I can describe.

I’ve seen the two extremes. I have to say that the extreme non-viewing gym was by far unhealtier than the extreme all parents watch. There were some in the middle that were equally unhealthy though, where parents routinely watched (non-sexual) abuse and did nothing- didn’t even realize how toxic the environment was. All things considered I prefer an open door policy. To be able to show up whenever I want and observe, even though I am rarely going to do that. If it’s open to all parents, all the time, it seems likely that some parents will always be there. Like I said though, I don’t think that necessarily hinders non-sexual abuse. The best thing for that is your kid feeling empowered to speak up (to coaches, to you) when they feel something has crossed a line.

ETA: the gyms that have had the most extreme viewing in our experience were some of the best we’ve been to. At one in particular, some of the team parents were there for all of every single practice. They all hung out and grabbed and smacked and had a grand old time and the team felt like family. I never really came across any negatives to it at all, but that was just one gym.

 

[bookworm]

1. I would love to see a poll of people who had actually experienced both versions. The difference is more striking than I can describe.

2.The fact that a kids gets to the ranch does NOT mean they are okay...um, clearly. As has often been cited, the disaster in USA gymnastics is not only a function of poor policies, but even more fundamentally a function of the culture that allows those policies to exist. I don’t know all the factors that form that culture, but I suspect that when parents log hours in the gym w/ their TOPS kid, they become untethered to the outside world, their neighbors or common sense. They say yes to crazy policies and a secluded ranch that no normal parent would consider.

Well 2 points to make here:

1. We experienced both versions and I found the gyms where everyone could watch all the time anytime had their 4 or 5 parents whose nose would be glued to the window for the entire practice , even as the kids rose through the levels. In the gyms where no watching was encouraged , people didn't watch but it never seemed to be that striking of a difference to me but maybe that's just me.

2. well thanks for that vote of confidence ....I was there long hours and had TOPS kids that went to the ranch but I was not "untethered to the outside world, my neighbors or common sense" . I consider myself a "normal parent" who did go to the secluded ranch with her kid and was told that the gymnasts stayed in the cabins with an older female chaperone ( usually a former gymnast who worked for USAG, female) , the gymnasts were confined to the cabins in the down time and parents ( like myself) were not permitted to say at the Ranch so I retreated to a hotel in Conroe, while my girls stayed at the "secluded ranch, with their coaches and teammates" ....so if you want to skewer parents in the TOPS/elite program for this , have at it, but we parents genuinely felt that it was going to be ok.

 

[Seeker]

I don’t think anyone is attempting to skewer, scold or blame the parents...but the only way to learn and do better in the future is to dissect what happened and pave the way for a better future. Any of us that have been around for a while have likely seen questionable behavior from both parents and gyms, so if a description doesn’t apply to you, just keep reading. If it does apply to you...take heart and time to reflect on how to move forward better and stronger and with more knowledge. None of us are perfect, but when you know better, you do better. Getting there is painful and bumpy and hurtful at times, but we must. It really isn’t an option to stay where we are.

 

[bookworm]

I don’t think anyone is attempting to skewer, scold or blame the parents...but the only way to learn and do better in the future is to dissect what happened and pave the way for a better future. Any of us that have been around for a while have likely seen questionable behavior from both parents and gyms, so if a description doesn’t apply to you, just keep reading. If it does apply to you...take heart and time to reflect on how to move forward better and stronger and with more knowledge. None of us are perfect, but when you know better, you do better. Getting there is painful and bumpy and hurtful at times, but we must. It really isn’t an option to stay where we are.

Well when you speak as if you know better than we did , who were in the situations back then, it comes off as scolding and blaming. I get that we need to do better but commenting that people who went through this , with the rules as they were , were "untethered to the outside world and common sense" and not what a "normal parent" would do is a heavily loaded and blaming statement. It's tough to "keep reading " and not respond when painted with this brush without at least trying to defend myself and others who were in my shoes.

 

[Seeker]

Well when you speak as if you know better than we did , who were in the situations back then, it comes off as scolding and blaming. I get that we need to do better but commenting that people who went through this , with the rules as they were , were "untethered to the outside world and common sense" and not what a "normal parent" would do is a heavily loaded and blaming statement. It's tough to "keep reading " and not respond when painted with this brush without at least trying to defend myself and others who were in my shoes.

I can see where you’re coming from, but in fairness *I* didn’t say any of that and the OP of that thread did not quote you either. No one is blaming you or any other parent personally. At least not that I have seen anyway, but I admittedly haven’t read every post.

 

[strawberries]

Oh Bookworm, please forgive me. I would never think of you in the category I was trying to describe. You are simply not anything like the type I meant to paint. You have always epitomized regular, good commmon sense, you speak your mind and have never seemed to be beholden to anything or anyone. I have always admired you for maintaining that, despite the fact that you have exceptionally talented daughters. For years, you are the person I imagine PMing for advice on questions I have with my own daughter (I have one half-composed as I speak). I’m so sorry for the misunderstanding. I think the world of you.

The parent I meant to reference was the type who would ignore their child’s injuries, or knowingly allow their child to be in a bad or risky situation for a shot at the big time. I have seen a lot of these parents, and I thought probably others had too, and would recognize the type. You are certainly not one. Again, I’m sorry.

 

[bookworm]

Thank you strawberries for your kind words. I was caught off guard by the post I referenced so that's why I responded...I didn't want people to think I was crazy! And believe it or not, a lot of the parents who do come off as nuts really only want what's best for their kid and are usually following the advice of a trusted coach...they don't operate like I would but to each their own.

I think whether parents are crazy, nuts or not , the responsibility still goes back to USAG in making sure their "secluded ranch" WAS a safe place for young gymnasts to go to...they got complacent and didn't monitor it like they should have because they were too busy chasing Olympic gold at all costs....but going forward , it needs to be different.

 

[MILgymFAM]

They all hung out and grabbed and smacked and had a grand old time and the team felt like family. I never really came across any negatives to it at all, but that was just one gym.

Eek! That was supposed to say “gabbed and snacked”.. what it autocorrected to sounds entirely different than intended!

 

[3rd_time_around]

Eek! That was supposed to say “gabbed and snacked”.. what it autocorrected to sounds entirely different than intended!

So basically, they were being very inappropriate?

 

[Ali'sMom]

Eek! That was supposed to say “gabbed and snacked”.. what it autocorrected to sounds entirely different than intended!

I kinda like the grabbed and smacked - LOL!

 

[profmom]

I wonder why they separated congress from national championships? I can't imagine most west coast folks being able to do both.

I think the point about watching is pretty simple -- if a gym has no policies or norms, there is always the possibility that some parents will become too overinvested to the point where it's detrimental to the child's training and enjoyment of the sport. Unfortunately, these parents are probably not the ones whose spidey senses will start tingling when a coach is being emotionally abusive.

 

[suds]

I would argue that statistically, those over-watched kids have a harder time taking ownership of their gymnastics, their opinions, and their personal boundaries in the end.

...it said he/she thinks over watched kids have issues w/ their gymnastics and owning their sport - I said yeah, I realize there are risks involved w/ parents being there too much, but I think protecting kids from abuse is more important...

The discussion of parents watching, versus not, conjures up Maslow’s Heirarchy of Needs.

I have no doubt, that more gymnasts / children can reach self-actualization when their parents don’t watch practices. But at what cost? How many other children (nationally) are at increased risk when culturally it is acceptable for gyms to block access of a parent to their minor child athlete?

Physiological needs (food, shelter), then safety and security are the foundations. As a parent, being able to drop in unannounced and spot-check your child’s environment is a key part of ensuring safety.

I appreciate the frustration of the coaches articulated in this thread. Yes, I agree that if some parents watched less, their individual child would certainly be better for it. No doubt.

Parents having access to their children is a safety measure that, yes, would result in some athletes not reaching their full potential because of their parents.

I would also argue that natural human tendency is for people (here: meaning coaches) to feel more latitude with their own behavior when they are not being watched. Parents watching = increased accountability of coaching staff for their personal conduct.

I humbly suggest that policies and cultural expectations that block access of parents to their minor children prioritize performance and self-fulfillment to an unnecessary degree over safety and basic needs.

 

[Gymmommy71]

Omg - I just heard on the radio that Mikayla suing USAG and part of her suit claims that they PAID HER to keep quiet about Nassar. So damaging if true.

 

[Seeker]

Omg - I just heard on the radio that Mikayla suing USAG and part of her suit claims that they PAID HER to keep quiet about Nassar. So damaging if true.

To be clear — McKayla Maroney was forced to sign a non-disclosure agreement in order to receive a financial settlement to pay for psychological care needed to deal with the fallout of Nassar’s abuse.

1. Athlete needs treatment for abuse suffered as a minor child at the hands of USAG Dr.
2. USAG/USOC will only pay if athlete keeps her mouth shut about the abuse. (the settlement was for $1.25mil)

Let that sink in for a moment...

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-maroney-gynnastics-settlement-20171220-story.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...nastics-tried-silence-her-abuse-story-n831416

 

[Gymmommy71]

To be clear — McKayla Maroney was forced to sign a non-disclosure agreement in order to receive a financial settlement to pay for psychological care needed to deal with the fallout of Nassar’s abuse.

1. Athlete needs treatment for abuse suffered as a minor child at the hands of USAG Dr.
2. USAG/USOC will only pay if athlete keeps her mouth shut about the abuse. (the settlement was for $1.25mil)

Let that sink in for a moment...

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-maroney-gynnastics-settlement-20171220-story.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...nastics-tried-silence-her-abuse-story-n831416

Makes you wonder how many others are under NDAs...so awful. So the money USAG makes off of things like the Kellogg’s tour, etc. is being used as hush money for Nassars victims? So us as members sending dues and going to events like the tours and nationals meets are helping pay for it all. That’s awful. And they want us to believe that his closest friends like the Karoyli’s and Geddert had no idea this was going on? No way I believe that...

 

[Lunde]

Just when you thought USAG could stoop no lower in their handling of these terrible events ... they hit new depths ....