WAG Natural Talent vs Coaching

[tomtnt]

do the top teams prodcue the top gymnasts at nationals because they have great coaching? or do they benefit from always attracing the most talented kids ?

 

[LizzieLac]

I suspect a little of both.

 

[ZJsMom]

After about 11 years in the sport, I'd say coaching matters A LOT. You'll see year after year, that certain coaches have the best scores on certain apparatus. Also, when you look at results, it's often striking how similar the scores are between teammates. I think there's a bottom line level of natural talent that's required to make it to each level and for most teams, that's the cut between rec and team. Then there are the few exceptionally naturally talented kids who excel no matter what kind of coaching they get. And when you combine the most natural talent with the best coaching, you get the real stars.

 

[LadyBugGymnast]

I believe a bit of both as well. I think if you are a phenom, you are always going to come out on top because of your natural talent, but if you have a good coach, then they will take you all the way.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

I vote coaching too, a good coach can get a lot more out of a reasonably talented gymnast than a poor coach. I have seen the different rates my daughter has acquired skills under 4 different coaches, coaching matters a LOT

 

[rjb123]

I think a gifted coach knows how to get the best out of each child. I think they can take average talent further and keep kids in the sport longer, possibly allowing later bloomers to shine instead of quit. They (imo) also can take a really gifted child really far.

 

[josie55]

I think the coaching is super important but another important factor (perhaps an even more important one) is the overall program. A great coach in a mediocre program can only do so much. A good coach in a great program, I suspect, could do a lot more. In terms of the gymnast my guess would be that given a baseline level of potential, passion and work ethic, it seems that the program and coaching will be a better predictor of success.

 

[Seeker]

I agree with @josie55 re: the program and also absolutely believe that coaching matters a TON regardless of level of talent. My daughter has a lot of natural ability, but that really doesn't amount to much without proper coaching, conditioning, choreography, decision making (how to progress thru the levels, meet selection, pacing, peaking, for example), etc. Having the perspective of being at more that one gym, I can tell you a quality coach that is part of a quality program makes a huge, huge difference. Like night and day, tremendously important, cannot emphasize it enough.

It matters way more than you realize until you find yourself at a quality gym and then realize what you've been missing all along.

 

[gymnndance]

I would say coaching + the willingness to work hard, have no fear and a family who supports A LOT.

So basically a child who is fearless to try skills, has no problem with corrections and will try better and works hard plus parents who support the sport.

and a little talent and genetics never hurt but not so important IMO

 

[Gymmommy71]

My DD has been doing gymnastics for many years and has had over 7 different team coaches during that time - it's definitely a mix of both IMO. The better coaches have brought about significant progress on her weaknesses, and less engaged/non-persistent coaching shows in either regression or non-progress in her weak events - however, her better events always seem to progress no matter what (which IMO is where the natural talent comes in vs. coaching).

I think gyms that are able to be very selective screening about who they let on team are always going to produce/have strong gymnasts - this same thing happens in many sports - if you can hand pick your talent of course you're gonna do well.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Coaching is super important, but I personally have seen teams thrive on just getting upper level kids to fill the top of the team and rarely bring kids up.... so..... It really is program specific and each answer depends on many variables. It other words the real answer is.... one or the other or both.

 

[B.Gold]

Im sure the coaches that train the team that dominates the podium in our state, and sends large amount of girls to nationals are very good, but they hand pick their girls, who have come from all over the country, and spend 34+ hours in the gym. There is absolutely no competing with that.

Personally, I'm in awe of the programs and coaches that take "neighborhood" girls, on reasonable hours that allow for school and a "normal" life, trains successful L9 and 10s earning a girl or two a spot at Nationals and eventually getting them placed in college programs. To me THAT'S greater success.

 

[sce]

I think the best of the best have both. Look at Mary Lou Retton. She was talented and did okay in West Virginia. Then she moved to Karolyi and he took her to another level.

 

[gracyomalley]

Having had 3 kids in gym into Level 8 in a small town so only "neighborhood kids" around, I will say coaching, coaching and gym attitude!!!

Of course talent is a factor, but assuming enough talent to be chosen for team, AND enough work ethic to not quit after the first week of summer conditioning...what gets them to learn the skills and fundamentals to be able to continually progress and more importantly what keeps the kids engaged through puberty, mental blocks, life changes, etc is coaching and gym atmosphere.

There will always be that 1-2 kids that just seem to thrive no matter what, but I can tell you that we have a couple of really talented kids on our team, and the difference even in them is night and day when coached consistently by experienced, dedicated, coaches who are sensitive to the developmental needs of kids/tweens/teens, whose egos are not involved with every little medal/skill/level choice but who are focused on building gymnasts/kids up for the long haul, and whose personal life is kept out of the gym and properly managed (just as one should in all jobs, esp working with kids).

Gym atmosphere is huge too, but I believe that comes down to coaching. If an atmosphere of hard work, dedication, team support, gracious winning and losing, etc is the expectation, and from the teeny weenies the kids are properly called out for unkind behavior, expected to work hard but also allowed to enjoy fun times when appropriate, then there will be more kids working through difficult times, pushing themselves and friends to move forward with hard skills, etc.

Healthy competition amongst team mates is important, but IMHO should be kept seperate from coaching decisions about levels, progression, etc -example - boys often compete on conditioning, drills, etc but at meets they are "all for one and one for all". This attitude comes from the top down! Just as the boys can recognize something special about each of their team mates, the coach speaks to EACH parent about EACH kid after the meets - small team of 15 boys, but still, it's the coach's approach of each kid being worth that that matters - not empty praise, but honest "this was great, this we will work on" stuff. DD first coach was also very good at this "gym atmosphere stuff", and took it extremely seriously - to the point of asking teens to leave the gym if they had been proven to be involved in drinking, drugs, continuous bullying, etc - even top scoring, high level kids. It's also key that Head coaches and owners instill their approach to lower level coaches for consistancy.

Safety, proper training and dealing with the unavoidable injuries are also key to progression - and that comes down to coaching and gym attitude as well - we all know of the girl who did BWO "wrong" from her back not shoulders from L3, only to be out of gym with serious potentially long term back problems at L9, or the fearless boy who whips through the levels (harder to do with boys with the age limits) then gets to higher levels and can't be tight enough to be safe falling from HB releases. Good coaching from the start trains a whole different kind of gymnast - talent unrelated.

You can't be successful in high level gym if you're too beat up from injuries not properly treated/rehabilitated. DS had to take multiple skills out of his routines this year due to overuse injury in his ankle - in his case related to moving fast through the levels with what are impressively flat feet and ankle flexion limitations - leading to slightly improper landings on his double backs, etc (he's a fantastic tumbler, btw, so this issue was missed by many). This meant lower start values and scores across the board at meets, very limited dismounts and rare vaulting - dropped back from Tsuk layout to simple Tsuk and rarely practiced that - and he cut back to only 4 meets, but all with the encouragement from his coach and discussions centered on looking toward healing and "next year". Team mates with concussions were required to follow the same protocals that soccer and football players follow prior to returning to any activities in the gym, based on the protocal HC has been trying to instill, and when kids were hurting they were given different assignments or sent home to rest. Again, not talent related at all, but coaching and gym atmosphere decisions. Of course, some programs are big enough to let "nature" filter out any kids with injuries, etc and still have a few surviving Level 10s in the end, but that's not good coaching or talent, that's luck and attrition!

 

[tomtnt]

Wow, you've perfectly described our gym (local gym, moderate hours, 1-2 spots at nationals) and our competition (won level 8, 9, and 10 states, send most of their gymnasts to nationals).

Every time I contemplate a move (would never happen due to the distance involved), I realize the grass isn't always greener.... the increased hours and demands, etc. I think our gym does a great job balancing gym, school and life.

Im sure the coaches that train the team that dominates the podium in our state, and sends large amount of girls to nationals are very good, but they hand pick their girls, who have come from all over the country, and spend 34+ hours in the gym. There is absolutely no competing with that.

Personally, I'm in awe of the programs and coaches that take "neighborhood" girls, on reasonable hours that allow for school and a "normal" life, trains successful L9 and 10s earning a girl or two a spot at Nationals and eventually getting them placed in college programs. To me THAT'S greater success.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

both plus gymnasts work ethic and "coachability".

 

[Rapunzel]

It's got to be a perfect storm - natural talent, great coaches, mental attitude and support network (friends/family). If one aspect isn't quite spot on they're not going to make it to the top of the game.

 

[duyetanh]

No matter how much talent the child has, if they aren't coachable?
Forget about it.

 

[duyetanh]

Edited to add:
There is the most incredibly talented child at my dd's gym.
She will never reach her potential, because she thinks she knows it all, and the coaches don't.
It must be so frustrating for the coaches.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

but I would also add that a lot of coachability is also down to the coaches ability. My DD has been accused in the past of being "difficult", but her current coaches have said that they have no problem coaching her. All children are individuals, and if treated as such within the programme will thrive, the one size fits all system doesn't work.