WAG Natural Talent vs Coaching

[Deleted member 14190]

Edited to add:
There is the most incredibly talented child at my dd's gym.
She will never reach her potential, because she thinks she knows it all, and the coaches don't.
It must be so frustrating for the coaches.

And that is parenting folks! .

 

[Rapunzel]

but I would also add that a lot of coachability is also down to the coaches ability. My DD has been accused in the past of being "difficult", but her current coaches have said that they have no problem coaching her. All children are individuals, and if treated as such within the programme will thrive, the one size fits all system doesn't work.

I totally agree. The coach/gymnast fit is also really important as what works for one gymnast might not work for another.

 

[LJL07]

Of course talent is a factor, but assuming enough talent to be chosen for team, AND enough work ethic to not quit after the first week of summer conditioning...what gets them to learn the skills and fundamentals to be able to continually progress and more importantly what keeps the kids engaged through puberty, mental blocks, life changes, etc is coaching and gym atmosphere.

There will always be that 1-2 kids that just seem to thrive no matter what, but I can tell you that we have a couple of really talented kids on our team, and the difference even in them is night and day when coached consistently by experienced, dedicated, coaches who are sensitive to the developmental needs of kids/tweens/teens, whose egos are not involved with every little medal/skill/level choice but who are focused on building gymnasts/kids up for the long haul, and whose personal life is kept out of the gym and properly managed (just as one should in all jobs, esp working with kids).

Yes! I love this! Where do we find this gym?

The coaching makes a difference. Had older daughter at basically rec gym first year of team. The team's scores on the whole were just not good. At a place with much better technical coaching now, and my youngest daughter is getting much higher scores. I don't think she's more talented, and certainly her group isn't more talented than my older daughter's group. They just have much better coaches with attention to detail and technique.

 

[duyetanh]

And that is parenting folks! .

I would like to 'like' this post infinity times. As an educator, some of the parenting (or lack of it) is just depressing...

 

[B.Gold]

I would like to 'like' this post infinity times. As an educator, some of the parenting (or lack of it) is just depressing...

Ha!! Usually the complaint on this board is too MUCH parenting!!

 

[duyetanh]

Ha!! Usually the complaint on this board is too MUCH parenting!!

Bahaha!

 

[Committed]

Ha!! Usually the complaint on this board is too MUCH parenting!!

No.....I think the complaint is that parents are doing too much COACHING.

 

[duyetanh]

No.....I think the complaint is that parents are doing too much COACHING.

THIS

 

[ProudDad]

Even a phenom is not going to have the in depth knowledge about all the shapes, open/closed shoulders, where exactly to have their hands and arms relative to body... how far up their chin needs to be when executing a full, etc., etc., etc. Natural talent will only get them so far before the judges see the lack of "polish." Mine is no phenom, but her natural talent has gotten her far relatively quickly... without solid coaching she would be injured or worse by now.

I am also aware of anecdotal stories from a number of parents who have comments on how much better their child is doing since having moved to our gym. We've had one that left, but has since come back and coaching was a part of that decision.

 

[gasrgoose]

In my opinion it's all about coaching. But coaching involves the program direction & attitude, gymnastics knowledge, motivation, discipline, hiring the correct assistant coaches, patience, etc, etc. There are countless examples of gymnasts who did not fully develop until they entered a new program. Of course there are not perfect coaches or perfect gyms, but clearly some do it much better than others.

 

[gopuckgo]

I totally agree. The coach/gymnast fit is also really important as what works for one gymnast might not work for another.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Absolutely spot on!!! The best coach for each child depends on how each child learns. Similar to teachers in school. My daughter just got the "best teacher" this year according to everyone in town, needless to say it was a terrible fit for her. She moved to a different math teacher, same curriculum and wallah, problem solved. We have had similar gym experiences too. What works for one may not work for another, it may not be lack of coachability, talent or whatever, it may just be the wrong teaching style for that kid. It's too easy to blame bad kids, parents or coaches and label people versus chalking it up to a poor fit for all.

 

[balancedmom]

I think coaching and talent are both important as are everything folks have mentioned here (coachability, work ethic etc), but the top gyms near us only take the top of the top-- the other kids--kids who struggle, have mental blocks, or cant get top scores right away-- are not put on those teams, so there is adverse selection as well at many gyms-- would be interesting to see what some of these top coaches could do with struggling girls.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

would be interesting to see what some of these top coaches could do with struggling girls.

Yes it would.

 

[Sasha]

would be interesting to see what some of these top coaches could do with struggling girls.

A curious topic, especially if we are defining "Top" coaches as ones who have proven the ability to take the uber-early-talented kids to the elite/Olympic level.

That is a possibly very different skill set than bringing the less-obviously gifted child from a struggling L4 to a solid, winning L8 in a few years.

With most things in life, it is MUCH easier to teach to the 'top' - meaning those kids/people who naturally excel at your topic from the beginning. It is a whole different beast to bring the best out of the middle/bottom. The renowned university mathematician who has trained the elite math talent may or may not be a 'Top' choice to teach average 8th graders Algebra 1 and equip/inspire them to reach Advanced Calculus by 12th grade.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

I totally agree. The coach/gymnast fit is also really important as what works for one gymnast might not work for another.

This is why I LOVE that our gym has several different coaches that work with the girls. I must admit at first it was making me a little crazy that I couldn't figure out the "system" (I'm a pharmacist! I like systems! Lol). Like there is not ONE coach for each level or each event, and sometimes the L4s work with the L3s and sometimes the L5s. I'm sure there is a method to the madness...lol But as a parent I like that different coaches are getting a look at my kid and perhaps see different things and explain things differently.

 

[marie83]

would be interesting to see what some of these top coaches could do with struggling girls.

They don't have time

Really though, our lead coach has had to hand pick the 6 gymnasts she works with mainly, based on their physical and mental abilities. She is in the gym 25 hours a week with some of the girls and more in school holidays.

Gymnasts working with 'elite' coaches have to be able to make changes pretty much straight away, have the ability to work independently and be very serious and focused in the gym.

A struggling gymnast would be miserable in a group like this and would probably drop out of the sport.

There aren't enough hours in the day for an elite coach to work with struggling gymnasts separately to their elite gymnasts.

That's why there is more than 1 coach for most teams. Coaches all have different styles which suit different gymnasts better.

I personally work better with the 'slow and steady' gymnasts and still get them to a decent level.

.

 

[balancedmom]

They don't have time

Really though, our lead coach has had to hand pick the 6 gymnasts she works with mainly, based on their physical and mental abilities. She is in the gym 25 hours a week with some of the girls and more in school holidays.

Gymnasts working with 'elite' coaches have to be able to make changes pretty much straight away, have the ability to work independently and be very serious and focused in the gym.

A struggling gymnast would be miserable in a group like this and would probably drop out of the sport.

There aren't enough hours in the day for an elite coach to work with struggling gymnasts separately to their elite gymnasts.

That's why there is more than 1 coach for most teams. Coaches all have different styles which suit different gymnasts better.

I personally work better with the 'slow and steady' gymnasts and still get them to a decent level.

.

HI--- Yes, I don't expect the top coaches to teach struggling girls., but when deciding if it is talent vs. coaching, need to remember that these top coaches pick the top girls who have some really strong natural talent. My child struggles and at one gym, the coaches just wouldn't work with her.

 

[1canadiangymmom]

HI--- Yes, I don't expect the top coaches to teach struggling girls., but when deciding if it is talent vs. coaching, need to remember that these top coaches pick the top girls who have some really strong natural talent. My child struggles and at one gym, the coaches just wouldn't work with her.

I think this is a really good "what if" question. What if... one of the Top Coaches worked with my not naturally talented kid, where would she be a year from now? I am assuming better than with a mediocre coach.

 

[rjb123]

I think this is a really good "what if" question. What if... one of the Top Coaches worked with my not naturally talented kid, where would she be a year from now? I am assuming better than with a mediocre coach.

You know, this may or may not be true. DD used to say "oh this group gets that coach- they are better than this coach". What I told her (and she has learned is VERY true) is that EVERY coach has some knowledge to give you. The smart girl is the one who listens and takes in EVERYTHING that is told to her. Every correction, comment, suggestion, and uses it to improve her gymnastics. You can put a child with the best coach in the world and if they don't take full advantage of the knowledge that is imparted to them, well, they might as well be with a "bad" coach. I think it has to be a partnership. DD has been fortunate to have amazing coaches in her life. She appreciates all of them for different reasons- one she loves because she helps bring out the best in her artistry. Another is an amazing technician. Another helped her believe in herself. Another worded things just a little differently on this or that so that she "got" something that was eluding her. And so on...

 

[gracyomalley]

It is absolutely true that a person can learn something from every situation - and 99% of coaches have something to offer - if its only encouragement! However, good coaching is really important - and I would argue that the kid without tons of natural talent in the world of elite gymnastics may still be a great upper level gymnast with good coaching - so pretty amazing! (we forget how hard this sport is).

DD learned giants from an experienced coach who had coached level 10s to college D1 gym. She never got proficient at them and scored 9+ at Level 7 without competing them due to form and other skills being spot on. She grew a bunch and something happened with her wrists on giants and she "lost them". The coach took her back to strap and free hips and such to fix the flick, and her giants were back part time with proper form - then she was forced to switch gyms and to her it felt like "no giants on real bar NO working any level 8".

I don't argue that she needed the giants, by the way, or any of the other approaches of the new gym - just hit my kid at a bad time... -

What happened is the less experienced bars coach pushed her to just "get around the bar" and she managed to do what she called "terrible giants" there on pit bar - which she was never confident enough to take to real bars (and they did look awful compared to what she had previously done but still straight arms and legs, not dangerous, just not proper shape).

My kid fell apart and is happier out of gym, but what I am trying to say is unrelated to that - what I am trying to say is that knowledgable coaching does really matter! Her issue was in the process of being fixed and fixed well. Circumstances intervened that no one could change and it became about just "getting the skill" in order to move on. The new coach wasn't a bad coach, just not as experienced and didn't know my kid as well - and my kid was not in a coachable state at the time! I've seen similar things happen with my boys - a wonderful young coach does great things - but the really knowledgeable coach has a whole different approach which reaps entirely different results.

Most kids don't need Olympic level coaching and would probably frustrate those coaches as they would take longer to learn things, etc. However, its probably a disservice to the coaches to imply that they don't have a lot of knowledge and the ones who have done this for years and really love it are great teachers. Not every coach works well for evey kid and some may be better at coaching top dogs (and impatient with "normally talented JO gymnasts"), others great at getting kids through the levels and safe and happy in the end...both are skill sets. Being from a region with few options and limited coaches, large distances between teams, etc the balance is that our kids can only acheive so much compared to those who can seek out the best coaches for them, etc...it really isn't just talent....its not natural to do perfect release moves on bars, or flip a layout Tsuk, or giants on rings, etc - it takes teaching!