WAG New Move Up Criteria

[Empowered]

My daughter came home last night and said one of her coaches was adding "new criteria" to move beyond level 8.

The new criteria is that in addition to the skills, the girls now essentially need all TOPs skills to advance. This includes 10 press handstands, 20 leg lifts, 10 cast handstands lowering down to the bar without missing, rope climb in pike, 60 second handstand hold and all 3 splits down.

My personal opinion is WTF, most of the current 9s and 10s couldn't pass this testing. We've got the few trained TOPs kids who can but most cannot. So why the crackdown?

I am interested to hear other coach opinions on this policy.

I know for my child, she will never pass level 8 with these criteria.

 

[gymmomtoo]

I'm pretty sure none of our level 10s could pass this criteria! I'm wondering how long this policy will be in place before they scrap it ;-)

 

[coachmolly]

If you're going to put something like that into place, it needs to be with sufficient warning so the kids can actually work the skills and get to the desired level. Like telling kids who are current level 5-7s that these will be the expectations when they get to that level and adjust training and conditioning accordingly. Maybe they'll come to their senses when none of the level 8s (except TOPs kids) are able to move up? It's not that any part of that list is something absurd with no value, I can see why they would want to train those things and work to that level, but to expect it to happen overnight if it hasn't been a priority before is silly.

 

[Jabba]

As a coach, I believe those are good requirements if you want to build strong optional gymnasts. But you can't just demand that all of a sudden with your existing optionals and with no clear path to get them "caught up." We are far too small a gym to have TOPS but I have high, TOPS-like requirements for my kids who are working toward becoming Optionals. However, they have known this from the start. You can't just all of sudden demand they climb rope in pike if they can't even do 10 chinups. I don't think the coaches are wrong for having those requirements for the future, but they need to have a good plan for catching up their current optionals who may not be there yet.

Sent from my SCH-I405 using ChalkBucket mobile app

 

[MaryA]

To me this sounds like either an idle threat (possibly made to encourage girls to work harder on these "basics") or else requirements put in place to justify to the gymnasts and parents why they're moving up Suzie but not Sarah. I don't agree with either strategy, because I believe in following through on things I tell my kids (both threats and promises), but I have definitely learned to take these kind of pronouncments that come home from the gym with a grain of salt.

 

[GymCoachR2]

I have to admit, I like the requirements. Having that amount of strength and flexibility is highly advantageous as an optional gymnast, it helps kids learn skills easier, with better shapes etc. That being said, I'm not a fan of the way it has been implemented. I think it either needs to be phased in, over a couple of years or starting with x new compulsory group. Or, it needs to be implemented early enough in the year that kids can work these requirements consistently. Though I still think the second option is too short an amount of time considering you are saying some kids will never pass them.

 

[gymgal]

To me this sounds like either an idle threat (possibly made to encourage girls to work harder on these "basics") or else requirements put in place to justify to the gymnasts and parents why they're moving up Suzie but not Sarah

the second was my initial thought.

 

[wallflower]

Maybe I'm delusional, but most optional gymnasts can't already do that? I have a skewed view perhaps because those are the things our optional gymnasts do every single day. The only difference being that they do straddle casts instead of straight body like required for TOPS. Just curious which of those things are you worried about?

 

[Empowered]

10 Press to handstand from straddle sit. My daughter cannot do one, if she had an army of coaches to work on just that for a year, she couldn't do 10. She lacks the flexibility.

There are 5 girls on her 35 person optional team who can do 10 in a row. 1 is elite, 2 are 10 testing elite, 2 are level 9.

Everything else is manageable, but move ups have always been skill based for optionals. Just a new twist.

 

[gymdog]

I would allow them to either do 10 stalders or sub handstand, press down to just above the floor but not rest, press back up (not go all the way down to sit) in case they just can't rotate their hip flexors. I know people who have been on the national team that I know for a fact can't do 10 stalders (hard for them to rotate their legs under advantageously) but they could do 10 of an almost equivalent press (lowering down to just above the floor but staying on their hands).

The other stuff seems pretty standard. Honestly I don't work out and I can still do pike rope climb and most of that except the stalders. And the cast handstands in one shot. And there's NO WAY I could do anything resembling competitive teams, so yeah, I'd find that concerning if they can't do that. I could never do stalders well, but I could do presses in a row without resting or touching the ground. So again I think it'd be reasonable to substitute that.

 

[gymdog]

Also those people weren't good bar workers. If you want to be a high level bars specialist today then it's a different story. But I think it's possible to be a powerful tumbler/vaulter and put together a basic bar set without having 10 stalders. But I think cast handstand is physically easier/less taxing than stalders no matter your physical attributes (assuming you know what you're doing, but I would think older optionals should have an efficient cast). Maybe that's just me, I have strong shoulders but can't do a middle split to save my life.

 

[wallflower]

10 Press to handstand from straddle sit. My daughter cannot do one, if she had an army of coaches to work on just that for a year, she couldn't do 10. She lacks the flexibility.

There are 5 girls on her 35 person optional team who can do 10 in a row. 1 is elite, 2 are 10 testing elite, 2 are level 9.

Everything else is manageable, but move ups have always been skill based for optionals. Just a new twist.

Okay gotcha. I told you I was probably delusional. I'm sure there are girls on DD's team that can't do 10 either. That seems very unfair and if that is their only criteria, you might want to explore other options. Hopefully it's just something they are saying. DD's gym requires a straight body cast hs to move to level 7, but they eventfully cave and let some girls straddle.

 

[vagymmomma]

DD's coaches handed out "must haves" for new level 7 and 8 last week as well. I appreciate them setting some standards, but man is it a tough jump from current 7 to new 8. No press-up requirements, but they have to have C tumbling on beam and floor, as well as a C on bars (not sure if a FH to HS will count -- they're working double backs into the pit at the moment). Makes it just a little tougher than current level 8 requirements. A decent number of the current 8s don't meet these requirements. Are these rules really going to help girls get to 9 or just keep more girls from level 8? DD has 5 months to get the skills before moveups. I'm not really worried about bars or beam, but floor is going to be interesting.

 

[JBS]

Great concept...we are trying to do this...we are starting with lower numbers though.

One is our press number for now...because if you can do one...you can do two...you can do ten.

 

[gymgal]

Dds gym has a similar criteria checklist that involves a lot of conditioning and uptrained skills. I like the concept of higher expectations and objective lists as it will aid their progression in the long run, but it can cause stress in the initial implementation, when the girls realize they have a lot more skills/conditioning to achieve in order to move up than through the old system.

 

[wandrewsjr]

My guess is they are doing it because they can. They have a huge optional team flush with talented gymnasts, and they are trying to "thin the herd" a little to make the upper optional team size more manageable so they can continue to run their program well.

Will they let them do the presses on paralettes(like TOPS testers have the option to do?) This helps minimize the flexibility issue a little.

 

[JBS]

Will they let them do the presses on paralettes(like TOPS testers have the option to do?) This helps minimize the flexibility issue a little.

Yes...and easier on the wrists too.

 

[Muddlethru]

Something might have gotten lost in the translation. Like everyone above indicated, it is a good criteria to have. However, if they have been coaching a while, they should know that not everyone can do ALL those skills and/or have the ability to do them. I've also spoken to many JO coaches and they've said, some of their best gymnasts are not their strongest, specifically indicating cannot do the TOPS abilities test. Your daughter's may modify the skills to make it doable or are merely planning to start incorporating them In their regular workout. I don't see any gym, except gyms training aspiring elites, not progressing their gymnasts just because they cannot do the TOPS abilities/skills. They'd lose many of their gymnasts.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I am surprised that most level 10's could not do this. In my area most optionals could quite easily fulfil this criteria and the coaches would expect a lot more to move up.

 

[Flipomaniak]

We used to have similar requirements but they weren't strict. It was more of a "you should be able to..." I can do everything but I can only do 1-2 presses and I'm level 10. My coach says that's normal as most level 10s can't so that it's no problem at all. Now for casts, handstand hold, leg lifts, rope etc those are all very basic things optionals need to have, imo and my coaches opinion.