WAG Opinions on USAG?

[aileenmaryf]

So I have been on this website for a while now, and it seems that a big chunk of people are gymnasts/coaches/parents/judges in USAG. Where I am from, there were a few gyms, but none of them offered USAG. Instead the club gyms were a system that followed high school rules but allowed 10 kids per team (and each club typically has multiple teams). I don't know that I could have been successful in gymnastics had my gym been part of USAG because I did not start until the age of 12. I was invited to pre-team as soon as I tried out in my gym, and when the gymnastics season was over, I got invited to team. There are other people who I don't think would succeed as well in USAG either. She is 10 and has a back full and a front tuck, front tuck on floor, but she really struggles on bars, she doesn't have her kip yet (although she's been close for a year now). On beam her best skill is a round-off (she has no shoulder flexibility so back walkovers don't work) and on vault she has a front handspring half twist. If she were in USAG, she would still be stuck in a lower level because she struggles so much on bars. Where I coach, we also are in the same program that I grew up in, and it just gives kids to excel on their strengths and work on their weaknesses. I am a big believer in pushing yourself and I know that (or I have at least seen some comments on this website) sometimes gymnasts in USAG have to compete skills that they are already have perfected and are past.

Anyways, out of curiosity, what do people think of USAG? Do you like it? Do you ever get sick of watching the same routine 500 times in one meet and hearing the same music over and over? Do gymnasts get bored of trying to "perfect" everything? If given the opportunity to compete in something other than USAG, would you do it? It seems to me that USAG gymnastics is meant for those who want to go to the Olympics, but not all kids want to do that nor is it realistic. However, I am probably missing some perspective because really the only experience I have with it is what I have seen in the gym that the high school gymnasts used to work out in when I coached last year and what I hear from the few high school girls who came from a USAG club. I really have no idea what I am talking about.

So I am just curious about any thoughts/comments/experiences they would like to share with me.

Thanks!

 

[Gymishome]

Not a fan...

 

[txgymfan]

It is the only system in the US for gymnasts who wish to get to the highest levels of the sport. It is not ideal but it is highly effective and now has the Excel system for those who wish a less intense pathway.

 

[Gymsanity]

I could write for hours and hours, but luckily for everyone I won't! Let's just say I've been involved professionally with other organizations over the years (non gymnastics), and they make USAG look like dumb and dumber! Seems like the blind leading the blind around here. Takes years, sometimes decades (if ever), for them to listen to the coaches that are in the trenches doing their dirty work. I'll throw them a bone and say they did a much better job listening this quadrennium than ever before, but that still leaves a ton of room for improvement! Feels like a bunch of out of touch amatures, but what are you going to do? Really, what are you going to do? They are the only game around, and it's their ball and bat, so you do as you are told and play by their rules.......Doesn't mean you have to like it though!

 

[aileenmaryf]

All of it just seems a little silly to me (but again I really don't have any experience with it). I have known a lot of incredible gymnasts who did not ever go through the USAG system. For example, there is a girl who goes to my old gym and she has never done a day of USAG in her life. She has a full in and a triple twist on floor. If she was going to some USAG gym, she would probably be doing insane hours and not going to school full time, but instead she gets to be a normal 7th grader. I know there is Xcel for those who aren't as serious, but this girl is still serious about gymnastics, she is just doesn't have to go through the intensity of the USAG program.

 

[Seeker]

I guess it depends on what a gymnasts' goals are...do they want to compete? Gain a scholarship? If you just love gymnastics and want to continue to learn new skills and have the fun and enjoyment and sense of accomplishment that comes from that, carry on with whatever is working for you.

Many non-USAG gymnasts tend to focus on just one event though -- many seem to have high level skills on floor and then not as much (if any) on the other 3 events. Tumbling is a great path to follow for many, if that is what interests you and if competition is desired. Other options are also out there, but USAG is what it is...doesn't really matter if we minions like it or not.

I think that is true for pretty much everything though, especially 'sanctioned' sporting events. The rules are the rules and they don't always make sense nor do they change or evolve as fast as we might like, but if you want to participate in whatever it is, you have to find a way to fit into the program that is offered or find an alternate path. I do believe that there is something out there for everyone, sometimes we just have to look a little harder to find it.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

So I have been on this website for a while now, and it seems that a big chunk of people are gymnasts/coaches/parents/judges in USAG. Where I am from, there were a few gyms, but none of them offered USAG. Instead the club gyms were a system that followed high school rules but allowed 10 kids per team (and each club typically has multiple teams). I don't know that I could have been successful in gymnastics had my gym been part of USAG because I did not start until the age of 12. I was invited to pre-team as soon as I tried out in my gym, and when the gymnastics season was over, I got invited to team. There are other people who I don't think would succeed as well in USAG either. She is 10 and has a back full and a front tuck, front tuck on floor, but she really struggles on bars, she doesn't have her kip yet (although she's been close for a year now). On beam her best skill is a round-off (she has no shoulder flexibility so back walkovers don't work) and on vault she has a front handspring half twist. If she were in USAG, she would still be stuck in a lower level because she struggles so much on bars. Where I coach, we also are in the same program that I grew up in, and it just gives kids to excel on their strengths and work on their weaknesses. I am a big believer in pushing yourself and I know that (or I have at least seen some comments on this website) sometimes gymnasts in USAG have to compete skills that they are already have perfected and are past.

Anyways, out of curiosity, what do people think of USAG? Do you like it? Do you ever get sick of watching the same routine 500 times in one meet and hearing the same music over and over? Do gymnasts get bored of trying to "perfect" everything? If given the opportunity to compete in something other than USAG, would you do it? It seems to me that USAG gymnastics is meant for those who want to go to the Olympics, but not all kids want to do that nor is it realistic. However, I am probably missing some perspective because really the only experience I have with it is what I have seen in the gym that the high school gymnasts used to work out in when I coached last year and what I hear from the few high school girls who came from a USAG club. I really have no idea what I am talking about.

So I am just curious about any thoughts/comments/experiences they would like to share with me.

Thanks!

i agree with you with what i have highlighted.

 

[Gymsanity]

^LOL^

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I could write for hours and hours, but luckily for everyone I won't! Let's just say I've been involved professionally with other organizations over the years (non gymnastics), and they make USAG look like dumb and dumber! Seems like the blind leading the blind around here. Takes years, sometimes decades (if ever), for them to listen to the coaches that are in the trenches doing their dirty work. I'll throw them a bone and say they did a much better job listening this quadrennium than ever before, but that still leaves a ton of room for improvement! Feels like a bunch of out of touch amatures, but what are you going to do? Really, what are you going to do? They are the only game around, and it's their ball and bat, so you do as you are told and play by their rules.......Doesn't mean you have to like it though!

and you have no idea at all what it takes to run a NGB. i'm offended at your characterization as "dumb and dumber".

the NGB's charter (originally as USGF) as set forth by the USOC, and their sole reason for their existence, is to provide athletes to represent the United States in international competitions which include World Championships and the Olympic Games.

and we have done it better than anyone else for as long as they have been in existence since 1964. you don't know enough history of the existence of gymnastics to make the accusations that you just did.

and i'll bet my last dollar that you have NEVER had a National Team Member, let alone a World or Olympic or International gymnast representing the United States of America in any international competitions.

if you did...you would know exactly WHAT USA Gymnastics was and DID.

to quote Mark Levin as i sometimes do..."shut up you big dummy".

and i mean that endearingly

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Not a fan...

of the post? or USAG??

 

[Gymsanity]

'i'm offended at your characterization as "dumb and dumber".'
Sorry that I so easily offended your delicate sensibilities.
'and we have done it better than anyone else for as long as they have been in existence since 1964.'
Does that mean there is no room for improvement? And maybe that speaks to how bad others have done it as well.

'and i'll bet my last dollar that you have NEVER had a National Team Member, let alone a World or Olympic or International gymnast representing the United States of America in any international competitions.'
Sounds like a great offer, but if you are like most coaches, that probably won't be much, but I guess I'll take what I can get. (part of a team of coaches that had the youngest girl on the national team at the time, and another that was an alternate on one of the Olympic teams).

..."shut up you big dummy".
Use all the smileys you want, that speaks volumes as to your character. The OP asked for opinions, so I gave mine.
Have a nice day.

 

[JBS]

I think USAG has become much more progressive for all. Great organization that truly drives gymnastics in the US. Looking forward to a continued future with USAG at our club.

Problems at times...yes...but what organization doesn't have issues. USAG is progressing and that is what matters.

The US is currently the best in the world...that should mean something.

 

[Gymishome]

of the post? or USAG??

More the former than the latter...

It's not our place to comment on it. We are coaches, parents, gymnasts, whatever we may be. But then again there are some things I don't like about it. Nothing's perfect and it's better than a lot of organizations. And it has produced our Olympians. So there's not much room for complaint...

 

[PalmTree]

"So I have been on this website for a while now, and it seems that a big chunk of people are gymnasts/coaches/parents/judges in USAG. Where I am from, there were a few gyms, but none of them offered USAG. Instead the club gyms were a system that followed high school rules but allowed 10 kids per team (and each club typically has multiple teams). "

MAGA?


"She is 10 and has a back full and a front tuck, front tuck on floor, but she really struggles on bars, she doesn't have her kip yet (although she's been close for a year now)."

Perhaps she is just talented in tumbling? Does she enjoy uneven bars? If she cannot make a kip, she either doesn't have the strength or coaching to do so. Lots of recreational gymnasts do not put in the hours to get the strength for a kip, but can "throw" some ugly tumbling skills that get credit in other programs (not saying this is true in your case). The thing I like about USAG is that it makes it so that gymnasts must be strong and technically proficient (read: SAFE) to move on to upper levels.

"1. Do you ever get sick of watching the same routine 500 times in one meet and hearing the same music over and over? 2. Do gymnasts get bored of trying to "perfect" everything? 3. If given the opportunity to compete in something other than USAG, would you do it?"

1 - yes, it gets repetitive, but what do you think we do in practice?
2. They sometimes get bored, but that is when you play games with it or introduce something new. Perfecting is NOT silly - it is safe and effective. What do you think happens to a kid who doesn't perfect their kip? They have fun trying out flyways and other skills, but they aren't spotted through the progressions and strengthening their muscles, so what happens? They end up with a kip. Just a kip. Whereas other kids have a kip cast handstand, a kip cast pirouette, etc, etc. With other programs, the kids reach a certain point that they can't get past.
3. Absolutely not.

I can say with confidence that I LOVE the USAG Program and I think it is incredible. I say this as a kid who started gymnastics at 13 years old and competed through USAG. There is ability to compete if you are older, you just have to be at the right gym. Now that they have Xcel, that is great for older gymnasts, and you can have one "strong" event as well as a "weak" event. They are making options for everyone. It truly is a program in which every child can be a part of.

I am now a partial gym owner who took over a gym that competed in one of the "other" programs (not USAG). It was a disaster at first. To compete in this other program, you could basically do anything. The kids were throwing skills way above their skill level and all were injured. They were "doing gymnastics" but looked terrible and felt terrible. We switched over to USAG and I now have kids that are happy, successful, and a couple who have real potential to be elites or college scholarship.

USAG has provided SO MUCH training for coaches in just the past few years. You can go online and take courses, go to National or Regional Congresses, go to training camps, etc etc. They truly care about the wellbeing and success of their gymnasts AND coaches. Maybe other programs do that as well; I would hope that they do. But no other program can create the kind of gymnasts that USAG has. Maybe you should use a different program if you are interested in Rec gymnastics and just "having fun." But if you have a kid who is dedicated, committed, talented and incredible, the best choice for them is USA Gymnastics.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

A talented coach in a club with good structure and a vision for their gymnasts will succeed no matter what rules are in place. Those who spend all their time complaining about aspects of the system are wasting energy that they could be using to fix their coaching/club deficiencies.

 

[aileenmaryf]

I just want to make it clear to everyone here that in no way did I start this post to offend or criticize USAG, any participants, coaches, etc. I was simply curious about people's experiences with it because of the lack of my experience with it. I would appreciate it if people would not criticize me for simply asking questions. Also, when I made the 'silly' comment, I was thinking more of the earlier levels where kids do a few levels of compulsory routines, which, from what I can tell, sometimes ends up being YEARS. Why would you have kids do the SAME EXACT routines as each other for years? We are individuals, not robots. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. I mean, I understand where at some point compulsory routines are necessary, but that much? Again, I don't know. I don't get to see a lot of USAG gymnastics, and that is why I am asking. I like to ask questions that maybe some people get defensive about, but in no way do I claim to know anything about the organization. So to some people, the answer may be simple, but its not to me.

 

[raenndrops]

All of it just seems a little silly to me (but again I really don't have any experience with it). I have known a lot of incredible gymnasts who did not ever go through the USAG system. For example, there is a girl who goes to my old gym and she has never done a day of USAG in her life. She has a full in and a triple twist on floor. If she was going to some USAG gym, she would probably be doing insane hours and not going to school full time, but instead she gets to be a normal 7th grader. I know there is Xcel for those who aren't as serious, but this girl is still serious about gymnastics, she is just doesn't have to go through the intensity of the USAG program.

I know you are getting your info from others, but
I do not like it when ppl treat Xcel like the "red-headed step-child" of USAG JO. Xcel can be just as serious as JO. It depends on the gym. In our gym, Xcel is for girls who are STUCK for some reason at a level ... OR for the girl who has fears that will not let her progress in JO any further OR for the girl who has a lot of skills to compete L7-8 (depending on the event), but started gymnastics team late and was only going into New L5 (the only one on our team). She is competing Xcel Platinum, and it took just a few tweaks to the Platinum routines to get them to a sufficient L8 start value.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

'i'm offended at your characterization as "dumb and dumber".'
Sorry that I so easily offended your delicate sensibilities.
'and we have done it better than anyone else for as long as they have been in existence since 1964.'
Does that mean there is no room for improvement? And maybe that speaks to how bad others have done it as well.

'and i'll bet my last dollar that you have NEVER had a National Team Member, let alone a World or Olympic or International gymnast representing the United States of America in any international competitions.'
Sounds like a great offer, but if you are like most coaches, that probably won't be much, but I guess I'll take what I can get. (part of a team of coaches that had the youngest girl on the national team at the time, and another that was an alternate on one of the Olympic teams).

..."shut up you big dummy".
Use all the smileys you want, that speaks volumes as to your character. The OP asked for opinions, so I gave mine.
Have a nice day.

there is nothing wrong with/in the volumes of my character.

you must be disgruntled about pay. that is not USAG's problem. and we do very well. i'll buy your dinner if we ever meet.

and if the rest is true, you should be more grateful. those 2 kids had to have good coaches, but the infrastructure/system is what got them there. these kids are not developed in a vacuum.

and we have had several. 2 that were the youngest during their time. but no Olympian yet. and we never could have gone the distance with the kids that represented the USA without the support and infrastructure of USAG and the USOC.

you must not understand what USAG does.

smileys or not, when i say something i post is meant to be "endearing" i mean just that. if it to the contrary, i say nothing at all. you have a nice day also.

 

[iwannacoach]

Ain't it just a case of the more things change, the more they seem the same. There's always somebody upset about the age group program, and the elite program, and participants, seems never to beg for controversy of some sort. Some of those are very fine coaches who'd just like to do it their way, and others that want more regulation.... such as mandate scores...... There's another group that seems to keep working while ignoring whatever USAG has done to cobber things up as some have suggested. Hey, aren't we in a sport where great is a temporary condition, and if so why not give the USGA time to react to problems.

I can't vouch for the present administration, well maybe can't, other than to say they've seemed very open to changes in how kids can develop into elites and national team members. Maybe TOPS and HOPES wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I haven't heard of coaches being forced to bring their hopefuls through either of these programs, but then again I haven't coached 24/365 for 27 years' and it's been longer still since working with an elite...... and yes, I can attest to the fact they had a national team way back then, but not a real national team program. If you're not impressed with USAG now, I'd hate to hear how it was doing then.

The age group program has seen changes that allow more flexibility in skill choices at L7 -L9. They also added new L6 to give kids and coaches a chance to craft routines of their own rather than repeat old L6 for another year.... or two. That change mirrors the changes made in the mid eighties that addressed the Grand Canyon sized gap between weaker and/or first year class 2 gymnasts. It was a great adjustment that gave kids with a simple back tuck a break from competing against kids on afterburner doing double fulls and double backs on floor....

The origin of this change was coaches like me who felt there should be a format for an early optional who's lack of a superstar pedigree places them so far from the top they'd look up and see the bottom. The change was put together based a wishlist and input from coaches, unless it was just Mike Jacki and I, who wanted kids to get an earlier start on optional work and progress according to their ability and circumstance, rather than the ability of kids from powerhouse gyms.

So yeah, they can change when asked nicely, and even when they're threatened with rebellion from USECA over something as silly as a squat vault in the beginning level's compulsory. Like who can't teach that in a week and let it gather dust until each Friday of the meet season. Sure, they pushed back, but more as an attempt to keep the sport from becoming a chaotic mess.

I can't say I wouldn't have it any other way, but anything else sits in a distant second position, and has for the past 40+ years......maybe even farther if your chalkbucket name is dunno.

 

[aileenmaryf]

I know you are getting your info from others, but
I do not like it when ppl treat Xcel like the "red-headed step-child" of USAG JO. Xcel can be just as serious as JO. It depends on the gym. In our gym, Xcel is for girls who are STUCK for some reason at a level ... OR for the girl who has fears that will not let her progress in JO any further OR for the girl who has a lot of skills to compete L7-8 (depending on the event), but started gymnastics team late and was only going into New L5 (the only one on our team). She is competing Xcel Platinum, and it took just a few tweaks to the Platinum routines to get them to a sufficient L8 start value.

Sorry, I have very little experience with USAG JO and even less with Xcel. My point was meant to be that my old gym also produces incredible gymnasts, they just don't give their whole childhood up. This girl, had she been at a gym that trains kids to be level 9/10/elite, would have taken her the moment she joined gymnastics and put her in an intense program. She is just one of those kids that everything is fairly easy. Anyways I appreciate the comment!