WAG Optional Requirements Out

[dmytv]

because some of those old skills in compusories needed to go. ie- forward roll on beam for 4 yr olds and the hard to do dismount for for old level 6 beam.

 

[iwannacoach]

okay. That is a good, valid answer. But... If that was usag's intent with this level, why bother with new L5? Or this big overhaul of the compulsories, at all. Why not just leave the L1 through 5 compulsories similar to the old system, then turn level 6 into the first optional level with similar special requirements to the old compulsory level 6. Ya know?

Let me be perfectly clear....... USAG does not make mistakes. Never, no way, no how. What they really do well, is to improve upon a previous.....err, uh, hehm....... mistake to come up with a system that works in spite of the mist..... whoops, the failed strategies of the past.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

To a coach and an athlete, it is quite clear.

Agree that the Lvl 6 reqts are truely a waste. Hope everyone hurries quick to score out of 6 and get to Lvl 7.

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I guess if a kid can't pirouette, then its an applicable level. Other than that,,, I just need to decide if skipping level 5 or skipping level 6 will be more beneficial for our program. Currently I am swinging towards skipping 5...

 

[AmandaLynn]

because some of those old skills in compusories needed to go. ie- forward roll on beam for 4 yr olds and the hard to do dismount for for old level 6 beam.

They could have made some changes to the lower levels, still. I guess I just feel like the way this seems to be playing out, there is really no need for level 5 AND level 6, and most gyms will choose which one of the two they want to compete, then move along to level 7. It just seems like they could have accomplished the same end result by nixing old (compulsory) level 6 and replacing it with new (optional) level 6, then making the appropriate changes to the compulsories like the low level vault changes and the low level beam acro changes.

 

[profmom]

That old L6 dismount ticked me off -- it was one of the very few things my DD could do really well, and I don't think she ever got enough credit for it because the judges seemed not to be taking the deductions for not doing the full hold-turn-hold thing.

 

[JBS]

okay. That is a good, valid answer. But... If that was usag's intent with this level, why bother with new L5? Or this big overhaul of the compulsories, at all. Why not just leave the L1 through 5 compulsories similar to the old system, then turn level 6 into the first optional level with similar special requirements to the old compulsory level 6. Ya know?

I guess I do not understand the question...can you explain better?

 

[AmandaLynn]

Sorry. I am on an ipad, and I tend to try to be shorter winded on this thing, and often end up simply making no sense. LoLol

anyway... I just can not figure out why USAG has created an optional level that seems to be pretty much the same as the previous compulsory level. Why even have that compulsory level? In my opinion, they could have avoided all of this compulsory overhaul mess, left 1-5 essentially the same (with a few tweaks, obviously), and made level 6 basically what the new level 6 is. Does that make any more sense than my last post?

 

[Natasha]

Sorry. I am on an ipad, and I tend to try to be shorter winded on this thing, and often end up simply making no sense. LoLol

anyway... I just can not figure out why USAG has created an optional level that seems to be pretty much the same as the previous compulsory level. Why even have that compulsory level? In my opinion, they could have avoided all of this compulsory overhaul mess, left 1-5 essentially the same (with a few tweaks, obviously), and made level 6 basically what the new level 6 is. Does that make any more sense than my last post?

I agree. Or if they wanted to leave an option for gyms that wanted a 3rd level of compulsory, call the levels 6C (for 6 compulsory) and 6O (for level 6 optional) and leave all the rest of the numbering system alone. It seems strange that level 6 level of difficulty is actually less in some ways than level 5 if you choose the minimum requirements for the new L6.

Although I guess this way at least they still have to score out of the new L5 and demonstrate some basic competency at those skills.

 

[LizzieLac]

Sorry. I am on an ipad, and I tend to try to be shorter winded on this thing, and often end up simply making no sense. LoLol

anyway... I just can not figure out why USAG has created an optional level that seems to be pretty much the same as the previous compulsory level. Why even have that compulsory level? In my opinion, they could have avoided all of this compulsory overhaul mess, left 1-5 essentially the same (with a few tweaks, obviously), and made level 6 basically what the new level 6 is. Does that make any more sense than my last post?

Makes total sense to me. That has been my observation...skill-wise the new level 5 and the new level 6 don't look a whole lot different at least to me. I like the idea of making a new optional level that is a bit easier than level 7. For instance, our gym requires the level 7s to have a giant in their bar routine, since that will only help them be better prepared for the upper level optionals. However, it can cause otherwise strong gymnasts to repeat level 6. The notion of "transition" into creating optional routines that the new 6 will provide is a developmental step from USAG that I like. However, it doesn't make sense to have two levels so similar in skill requirements in order to achieve that.

 

[Natasha]

I was really expecting the new L7 to be slightly harder, (perhaps requiring giants and timers on vault) and the new L6 to be just a little easier than the current L7. I thought that the changes were in part to help with the big gap from L8 to L9. I know the option of 1 C element at L8 may help, but the minimum required at L7 vs what you need at L9 is still huge. Thus you still have the big gap, but at least those who are repeating L8 can do some C skills while working towards getting all their skills for L9. I am just wondering if there will be any benefit (scoring wise) to doing the C skills at L8. Obviously they will have the benefit of competing the skills and being better prepared for L9 competitions.

I am surprised that they even decided to offer current L7 the option of competing L6 next year when the new L7 is basically the same. I guess that is why so many expected the new L7 to be slightly harder and the new L6 to be harder than what it is now.

 

[JBS]

Sorry. I am on an ipad, and I tend to try to be shorter winded on this thing, and often end up simply making no sense. LoLol

anyway... I just can not figure out why USAG has created an optional level that seems to be pretty much the same as the previous compulsory level. Why even have that compulsory level? In my opinion, they could have avoided all of this compulsory overhaul mess, left 1-5 essentially the same (with a few tweaks, obviously), and made level 6 basically what the new level 6 is. Does that make any more sense than my last post?

Yes...makes perfect sense now.

I would say that it's all about keeping kids in gymnastics.

 

[MaryA]

I am just wondering if there will be any benefit (scoring wise) to doing the C skills at L8.

I wonder this too. I saw many girls do "allowable but not required" skills at 7 (twisting, etc.) who scored lower than clean routines with just the basics.

 

[vagymmomma]

I wonder this too. I saw many girls do "allowable but not required" skills at 7 (twisting, etc.) who scored lower than clean routines with just the basics.

Me too. Especially since DDs gym is making the C skills a requirement to move to new 8. Seems like such a waste to repeat new 7 when you were scoring 36s.

I must say our 7s who twisted last year did score the highest. Not sure if the twisting made the difference or they were just that good. Probably the latter.

 

[gardenia01]

I'm curious about this too. My dd may repeat Level 8, but would compete all the extra C's. We just finished regionals and from what I could tell, the girls who were super clean did best. That may not be as true in state (we are in Virginia as well), but my dd wasn't really rewarded for doing what is close to an L9 beam set. She probably would have scored higher sticking a round off layout dismount as opposed to the full she did on which she took a step. I'd think the same may hold true next year, though I guess competing those extra C's (my dd for sure will do double back dismount off bars and some sort of salto on beam, as well as a one and a half or double on floor) will prepare her better for L9. I guess only time will tell.

 

[profmom]

Me too. Especially since DDs gym is making the C skills a requirement to move to new 8. Seems like such a waste to repeat new 7 when you were scoring 36s.

I must say our 7s who twisted last year did score the highest. Not sure if the twisting made the difference or they were just that good. Probably the latter.

L7 DD's gym only had a few girls competing 1/2 twists, but those were the girls who were doing them very high, very tight, and straight as an arrow in their extensions. Lots more were practicing them during their rotations on floor at the gym. Same thing with front pikes/front layouts (several practicing them, only a few competing them). The girls with the upgrades were generally scoring higher on floor -- last weekend one notched a 9.8 -- but I think it was because they are so clean, not because of the upgrades.

Not anywhere near L8 yet, so take with a grain of salt, but the open endedness seems like a good change to me particularly for girls like my DD who are quite uneven across events. I can easily see her topping out the difficulty on a beam routine while still competing a floor routine that only meets the minimum requirements. It's good for these girls to have some room not just to work on but to compete upgrades on the events they find easier while they are trudging along through the ones that are harder for them.

 

[htimcj]

I was wondering what is the advantage of doing a "c" skill that will only be counted as a 'b' skill like the piroette on bars? It seems that would just open you up to more deductions.

 

[vagymmomma]

I was wondering what is the advantage of doing a "c" skill that will only be counted as a 'b' skill like the piroette on bars?

I think Profmom hit it on the head. Some girls are not as good on all 4 events, and this allows them to train up where it makes sense. For example, if DD moves to new L8, she'll do a double back dismount on bars. She's already training them. Unfortunately, she may not have that opportunity because she's still working on her full on floor and her team requires a C tumbling skill on all events to move to new 8. I see a lot of girls that shouldn't be doing the extra stuff. If you can do it well, great. Otherwise, I think coaches should have them save it for training.

The L7 girls I referenced in my earlier post were doing fulls. And really, really well. I do think it helped a little with scoring.

 

[htimcj]

I think Profmom hit it on the head. Some girls are not as good on all 4 events, and this allows them to train up where it makes sense. For example, if DD moves to new L8, she'll do a double back dismount on bars. She's already training them. Unfortunately, she may not have that opportunity because she's still working on her full on floor and her team requires a C tumbling skill on all events to move to new 8. I see a lot of girls that shouldn't be doing the extra stuff. If you can do it well, great. Otherwise, I think coaches should have them save it for training.

The L7 girls I referenced in my earlier post were doing fulls. And really, really well. I do think it helped a little with scoring.

That makes sense. I can see some our old L7 repeating new L7 doing some of the skills they are up training for. I suppose it also gives them a chance to do it "for real".

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Am I reading it right that level 7 can pirouette on bars, but it is not required?

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The old 8 and new 7 have the same pirouette requirement, but a B release can replace the pirouette, (always has been allowed, so no change).

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I was wondering what is the advantage of doing a "c" skill that will only be counted as a 'b' skill like the piroette on bars? It seems that would just open you up to more deductions.

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yes it could, but it will benefit for next year. currently, the 9's have to add a double back dismount on bars along with a release after years of not being able to compete either, so this is a great level now. I have a few kids who have level 9 skills on a few events (and I want them to compete them) but cannot do a level 9 vault for example. This is a welcome change.