Positives to repeating level 4...bring it on!!

[mariposa]

Coaches, parents and gymnasts:

Some of you know that my daughter just switched to a new gym after a frustrating past 6 months at her old gym. We had lost our head coach who was very good with compulsory routines, the little details, conditioning, etc. There have been many new coaches that have come, many other coaches have gone and it has been very rough on the girls because of inconsistencies with coaching, one coach saying to do the routine this way, the next saying to do it this way, and then another one saying, no, do it this way. No organization to practices and girls making the same mistakes over and over again at meets and during practice at well and not getting correction. And the list really goes on and on...

She is 6 1/2 years old and has big dreams. She really, really, really wanted to move up to level 5 after this season so she could compete level 5 in the fall. She loves a challenge, working new skills, etc. However, she didn't have the best season as a level 4,started out at end of October with 27AA (scores of 5 on beam, 6 bars and 7s on vault/floor) and topping out at 8s on everything and a 33AA in March. I think some of it was her and some of it was the coaching situation at the gym.

We decided to switch before finding out about the move ups since we had heard that she might be moving to level 5. I knew there was no way I could get her to consider changing gyms if she knew she had been moved to level 5, because the gyms near us would definitely have her repeat level 4. Of course, now that we have left, we find out that they were moving her to level 5.

I do think that she will have a great year as a repeat level 4. She is very confident out there now and the new gym does well at compulsories (as well as at optionals, just a good gym all around) and is good on the little details, form, etc. I think her scores will improve quite a bit by the end and that she will place well at all her meets. They do uptrain and their main season is Fall. During the Spring season, they uptrain and do a couple of meets just to keep the girls motivated, so it won't be 6 months of just competing level 4.

SO, I am wanting to hear all the positives to repeating L4, especially at her age. If you/your DD repeated level 4 and it was a great thing, please tell me your story! I know in my heart that we did the right thing, but also know that she would LOVE to be doing L5 in the fall instead of L4, and it is hard to think about the coulda-beens. I know she is young, but she is also very motivated and like I said, has big dreams of getting to level 10.

I really want to get positive about this so I can get her thinking positive about this. She is loving the new gym, but is a little sad because she wanted to do level 5 so much. I know that many have had great experiences with repeating level 4, or know someone who did, so I would love to share the stories with her so she can see that it can be a GREAT thing.

 

[UnoMas]

Hey there! Well, my DD is repeating L4. She started midway through the season (December) and had two good meets but at our gym you have to have 36AA to move up. DD got 34.35 at her 2nd meet. So...this is how I look at it. We have several months to really polish and perfect skills and "little things"...and I fully expect some serious bling and clank-clank next year for her, which she hasn't gotten a lot of yet to this point. (she has only had one first place medal ever, which happened to be at states!) She has all the skills and stuff and I can tell she is getting a little bored with it at times but she is keeping her eyes on the prize which is going to be an AWESOME competitive season next year! (and I think that Abby is going to be rockin' those meets next year, too!!!) She is also enjoying being in the "highest group" of L4's at our gym and "winning" on events at practice. They also rank the gymnasts by score in practice at our gym and she is now near the top since she has been doing L4 so long and all the girls who moved up to L5 are now at the bottom!!!
Hope this helps. Hopefully M and Abby will be rockin' the podiums a lot next year as and year L4's!!!!

 

[mariposa]

Thanks madigym00. I know that changing gyms is going to be a good thing, but I do worry about her being bored repeating level 4. I am hopeful since they do uptrain AND all their level 4s already have their level 4 skills, it will be mostly a year of polishing up routines, working hard on them during the weeks before a meet and then during off time uptraining.

I think I just worry that I made the wrong decision for her, even though we did discuss the possibility of her being moved to level 5 at her old gym and she did want to stay if they did move her to level 5, I just didn't want to deal with the same problems for the next year and my husband really didn't. He isn't excited about her repeating level 4, but didn't know that that it is pretty normal except at most gyms, just not her old gym.

Here are the positives I am focusing on right now.

L5 at her old gym is 16 hours a week and I am not sure I want my 6/7 year old in the gym that many hours a week. Staying at L4 means she stays at 10 hours a week for the next year.

She should do much better this year at level 4 and it will be good for her confidence and to polish up all the little things, like beam and floor turns, front hip with straight arms (hopefully), pointing toes, etc, at a level where scoring isn't AS tough. Then she will be really ready for level 5.

Still would love to hear more stories from coaches, parents or gymmies about positive experiences with repeating level 4.

 

[gym law mom]

I think you need to work on moving Abby away from this fixation of being a L5 right now. She will be a L5, just not on her 6.5 yo timetable. Little kids have dreams and its up to adults to take them and make them achievable goals. So if the new gym uptrains, she won't be bored and you can set goals on learning some L5 skills. So many girls say "I want to be a L10", but have NO clue what it really takes to get there----heck neither do their parents. I think now that my gymmie has gotten up to L8, she has a much better idea of all the time and work it will take to make the step up those next 2 levels and certainly no guarantee that she will.

I feel that going to a gym that has a nice concrete program, she will learn to refine skills she already has, build on those with some new skills, get more confidence in competing and learn to focus more during practice and at meets. If she stays with the plan at the new gym, she'll be a L5 when she's just 7.5---very young for that level. I also agree that 10 hours/week for practice is much better for a young one than going up to 16.

I think you will see a totally different girl next season---confident, strong and polished!

 

[Linsul]

You know what I think, but I'll say it here loud and proud: New gym sounds great, LOVE your new bar coach, and strong foundations allow for solid more difficult skills! Being 6 is a luxury, revel in the time there is to perfect and build and know your DD is a lucky girl who will look amazing for it!

 

[MeetDirector]

OK, time for a Dad's perspective.

There is plenty of time to rush through the levels; it is far, far more important to 1) have fun and 2) learn solid foundational skills (in that order by the way). While some (me) would say that Lvl 4 doesn't lead anywhere for future levels, it can and does build a solid foundation to build on. Our gym has used the training team and then pre-5 approach in years past and just this season started competing lvl 4; it remains to be seen if the 4's will do well as 5's or not.

I say that as long as your new gym is building that foundation and letting her learn some new skills for the future, then it is good. When you stop to think about it, what happens if you rush through the levels and get to level 10 when you are 12 or 13? If you're not willing to take the next step, you could be a level 10 for the rest of your time.

We are putting the emphasis on number 1 above with our daughter; she did two years of training/pre team, 2 years of level 5 and just finished a very successful level 6 year as a 12 year old. Will she do level 7 next year? Maybe, if she has the skills; but if not she is OK with doing another year of lvl 6.

Good luck to you!

 

[mariposa]

I think you need to work on moving Abby away from this fixation of being a L5 right now. She will be a L5, just not on her 6.5 yo timetable. Little kids have dreams and its up to adults to take them and make them achievable goals. So if the new gym uptrains, she won't be bored and you can set goals on learning some L5 skills. So many girls say "I want to be a L10", but have NO clue what it really takes to get there----heck neither do their parents. I think now that my gymmie has gotten up to L8, she has a much better idea of all the time and work it will take to make the step up those next 2 levels and certainly no guarantee that she will.

I feel that going to a gym that has a nice concrete program, she will learn to refine skills she already has, build on those with some new skills, get more confidence in competing and learn to focus more during practice and at meets. If she stays with the plan at the new gym, she'll be a L5 when she's just 7.5---very young for that level. I also agree that 10 hours/week for practice is much better for a young one than going up to 16.

I think you will see a totally different girl next season---confident, strong and polished!

Thanks GLM. I can always count on you for being straight up and to the point, and knowing that it comes with care and experience.

I am definitely trying to get her to focus on the positives of the new gym, repeating level 4 and away from her fixation on being a level 5. I know that her old gym definitely moved girls up very quick and to her, that is the norm, when in reality, it usually isn't. That is why I wanted to share with her some positive stories about how great repeating a level, especially 4, can be. All she knows is girls that did a season or 2 of a level and then are moved up to the next and I want her to see that it is very common and doesn't mean she isn't a talented gymnast. Level 5 was a big focus, from coaches talking about scores needed to get there to a coach telling them they weren't "real gymnasts" until they got their kip. Ugh.

I really am feeling positive about the gym change and that she is going to be in a solid program. I just need to get her on the same page and focused on new things.

 

[mariposa]

OK, time for a Dad's perspective.

There is plenty of time to rush through the levels; it is far, far more important to 1) have fun and 2) learn solid foundational skills (in that order by the way). While some (me) would say that Lvl 4 doesn't lead anywhere for future levels, it can and does build a solid foundation to build on. Our gym has used the training team and then pre-5 approach in years past and just this season started competing lvl 4; it remains to be seen if the 4's will do well as 5's or not.

I say that as long as your new gym is building that foundation and letting her learn some new skills for the future, then it is good. When you stop to think about it, what happens if you rush through the levels and get to level 10 when you are 12 or 13? If you're not willing to take the next step, you could be a level 10 for the rest of your time.

We are putting the emphasis on number 1 above with our daughter; she did two years of training/pre team, 2 years of level 5 and just finished a very successful level 6 year as a 12 year old. Will she do level 7 next year? Maybe, if she has the skills; but if not she is OK with doing another year of lvl 6.

Good luck to you!

Thank you! You are right on the 12/13 year old level 10 thing. I noticed that the new gym doesn't rush through the optional levels either. Old gym had 12 year old level 9s/10s. That means if you want to keep doing gym until college, you are doing 6 years or so of level 10 which I would think is quite a bit more pounding and risk for injury, unless you are trying to go elite. Most of the level 10s at the new gym are 15+ and their really talented 12/13 year olds are level 8s this year. I thought that was interesting.

I am confident that she is at a great gym and that is what is important. She will get consistent coaching and hopefully have a great level 4 season!

 

[gym law mom]

Tell Abby that my gymmie did not even compete until she was 9(probably sounds incredibly old to her!!). She did pre-team starting at age 7 then started team at 9(no L4 at that gym). She is now 12 and has competed a L8 season doing some of those big skills that I'm sure Abby wants to do. Each level takes more and more work and it hasn't always been easy.

Have fun Abby and it will all come.

 

[gymdog]

I didn't start competing until I was 11, although I learned through L6 skills at a rec gym.

L5 is a pretty big jump from the L1-4 system that USAG basically separates out. Although competing L4 (and sometimes below) has gotten a lot more common, and I think it's good to compete L4 in order to get competitive experience with relatively more easy routines, it's still a pretty different ball game than L5. Two kips, vault table. All of the routines get longer and harder to remember with more details. If they aren't completely comfortable and reaching their potential with the 4 skills, I'd be hesistant to bump them up, especially at a young age. Rushing through those 5 skills isn't going to do anything in the long run. She'll be able to move to level 6 and 7 more easily if they really take the time to develop the level 5 foundation. If you push up to 5 and have to rush the skills, then it will be harder to improve them and build on them in the future, and also more frustrating as everyone else moves on to kip cast HS and you're still doing drills for straight arm kip.

If you look at it this way, at this point it's either two seasons of 4 or two seasons (minimum) of 5. If she does 4 this season, she can have a good season, and her 5 season will be that much better too. If she goes to 5 then it will probably be more of a struggle and she'll most likely need another year there before going to 6.

 

[gymgymgymnast08]

I was a level 4 in third grade so I was 8 and turned 9. I was NOT the greatest level 4. Honestly my highest aa that year was a 29.95, but I placed a couple times I was a good little vaulter. They moved me up after one year, I had all my level 4 tricks I just had horrible form. I was a pretty bad level 5 the next year too, I placed a little bit at the smaller meets and still had really bad form. I had a second year 5 and I placed on every event every meet and I had time to get my form a lot better and I placed pretty high in the state that year. I don't remember exactly. A second year as a compulsary is always a good thing, you get bored with the same routines over and over, but it is a really good thing.

 

[AnitaV]

I wouldn't be surpised in several years, if your daughter becomes a higher level optional, you'll go to a meet, look over to where the level 4s are competing and sigh and think how simple it all was back then

 

[Panda-girl's Mom]

As you know my daughter repeated level 4 this year she just turned 9. Last year I was feeling the same way as you are and I think my daughter repeating level 4 was the best thing she could of done. Last year as a level 4 my daughter was not competeing in all the events until the last few meets, she never qualified to states and her highest score was a like a 31. Her friends who were a little more sucessful qualified to states but their highest score was like a 32. They went to another gym and moved up to level5 they practice less than our gym and they are now scoring in the 28-29 range. They will probally not make it to states or sectionals this year. Basically they place last in all their meets. Now my daughter who repeated level 4 has placed in more than 1/2 of her meets she got a 37.1 at one meet and she has gotten many 9's this year. This has boosted her confidence and her form has improved a great deal. I was afraid that she would be bored training level 4 again but they have been uptraining so she has all her level 5 skills except her kip. She has had a really good year and loves gymnasics more than ever. I think it is more important to go to the better gym which it sounds like you have switched to. Abby is still really young so she will still be in the youngest age group when she moves to level 5. If she perfects her level 4 skills she will have be a more sucessful level 5 since it is a progression. I would just keep taking her to the new gym let her have fun and stop mentioning the levels to her.

 

[mariposa]

I didn't start competing until I was 11, although I learned through L6 skills at a rec gym.

L5 is a pretty big jump from the L1-4 system that USAG basically separates out. Although competing L4 (and sometimes below) has gotten a lot more common, and I think it's good to compete L4 in order to get competitive experience with relatively more easy routines, it's still a pretty different ball game than L5. Two kips, vault table. All of the routines get longer and harder to remember with more details. If they aren't completely comfortable and reaching their potential with the 4 skills, I'd be hesistant to bump them up, especially at a young age. Rushing through those 5 skills isn't going to do anything in the long run. She'll be able to move to level 6 and 7 more easily if they really take the time to develop the level 5 foundation. If you push up to 5 and have to rush the skills, then it will be harder to improve them and build on them in the future, and also more frustrating as everyone else moves on to kip cast HS and you're still doing drills for straight arm kip.

If you look at it this way, at this point it's either two seasons of 4 or two seasons (minimum) of 5. If she does 4 this season, she can have a good season, and her 5 season will be that much better too. If she goes to 5 then it will probably be more of a struggle and she'll most likely need another year there before going to 6.

Thanks gymdog. I definitely think that L5 right now would be too much for her, but the idea of repeating level 4 at her old gym was not an option to me, it would have been another year of the same issues. I don't want to see her struggle and be last place all the time again and I know that is what would happen at L5 for her. I am totally happy with the gym change, repeating level 4, etc. I think it is going to be a very positive experience from her. The new gym does a lot of strength and conditioning as well, which I think will help her and they do ballet once a week for about 45 minutes, which will help her tons.

I wouldn't be surpised in several years, if your daughter becomes a higher level optional, you'll go to a meet, look over to where the level 4s are competing and sigh and think how simple it all was back then

I am sure you are right. But right now, it is still hard, changing gyms was so difficult, especially since it wasn't because we were moving, but going to a different gym, which for whatever reason, there seems to be more rivalry between them.

As you know my daughter repeated level 4 this year she just turned 9. Last year I was feeling the same way as you are and I think my daughter repeating level 4 was the best thing she could of done. Last year as a level 4 my daughter was not competeing in all the events until the last few meets, she never qualified to states and her highest score was a like a 31. Her friends who were a little more sucessful qualified to states but their highest score was like a 32. They went to another gym and moved up to level5 they practice less than our gym and they are now scoring in the 28-29 range. They will probally not make it to states or sectionals this year. Basically they place last in all their meets. Now my daughter who repeated level 4 has placed in more than 1/2 of her meets she got a 37.1 at one meet and she has gotten many 9's this year. This has boosted her confidence and her form has improved a great deal. I was afraid that she would be bored training level 4 again but they have been uptraining so she has all her level 5 skills except her kip. She has had a really good year and loves gymnasics more than ever. I think it is more important to go to the better gym which it sounds like you have switched to. Abby is still really young so she will still be in the youngest age group when she moves to level 5. If she perfects her level 4 skills she will have be a more sucessful level 5 since it is a progression. I would just keep taking her to the new gym let her have fun and stop mentioning the levels to her.

Thanks for sharing your story. It is exactly what I think would happen with Abby if she had done level 5 this year. She either wouldn't have been ready and would have been sad to not get to compete with her teammates, or she would have done poorly and been at the bottom, waiting for her name to never be called during awards.

I am not worried about her age or being the youngest, etc. I just want her to be happy and challenged and motivated to do her best and have coaches that actually care (or even SEEM to care) that that happens. I have found that at her new gym, I think. All the girls are really sweet and I liked her first week there very much, so did she. She actually LOVED the ballet class as they did turns and leaps and kicks. I am sure it will get old, as all the other girls told her it was boring, LOL, but for now, she likes it.

I don't mention levels to her at all. But like I said, it was a big thing at the old gym, mentioned a lot to the girls and I think she just got so focused on the level and moving up. We have talked a lot about things though and she is happy with her new gym, still misses old friends, but doing good.

I love how the new gym teaches new skills. They were learning (well, she was, the other girls already do them) dive rolls yesterday and the coach (not the main floor coach, a gymnast that teaches there) went through where her arms, etc, should be in each part of the dive roll. Would pick her up and show her where to be, etc. They do that when they see a girl not doing a skill well, too. I think she needs that hands on approach and to get corrections when she does things wrong, otherwise she does it over and over again wrong.

 

[gymdog]

It sounds like she is adjusting well. I bet after another couple weeks of success in her new group, she will not be as focused on L5. It also sounds like they are training selected anyway so it should be the best of both worlds and she'll have a lot of time and exposure to the L5 elements by the time she moves up.

 

[gymnut1]

Positives lets think - she has her skills for level 4 so she will feel more confident, she will have more energy to use on forming new friendships and cementing her place in the team. Time to polish up form and really show out those routines! More chance of placing. More energy to uptrain for level 5. She is only 6 - even if she waits a year she will probably always be in the youngest age group in level 5. Tell her her new challenges are to make friends, be a good new friend, get to know her new coaches, and be pointy pointy, shiny shiny. And to have fun!
Hope you make some new Mama friends too.

 

[eeyoretumbles]

I had to repeat level 4, I was really upset about it, my whole team made it to state except me, meaning I had to repeat. Looking back I had some great benefiets. Especially in the first meets I did reallllyyy well because I was way ahead of the other girls. I improved a ton on form, since I already had my skills down and could focus on my form. On most meets I ended up always getting 9's, and it was fun for me as I just wanted to focus on doing good and having fun, and in level 4 there wasn't any events for me that I was worried about having to fall [especially since I had my kip down].

 

[Blackie6]

Another re-peater adding my 2 cents. But I think you've probably already read my posts from this past year and know the whole story. Quick version would be: My DD sort of got thrown into L4 with a big group that moved up from pre-team. She was the youngest, having just hit age 6. She did not bring much to the team skill-wise and becasue the team was so huge there were just a lot of girls to work with. She learned all the skills quickly, had her first meet and got a whopper 29 point something, but went up each and every meet from there. Finished the season at states with a 31 something and a 4th place vault for 6 yr olds too! High score for last year would probbaly have been about a 33 I think. A huge group of older girls moved up to L5 and the 6's and young 7's stayed back to repeat and I have no regrets! I'll tell you why. First off, she had the routines, needed to work on the form. I liked the hours (11 hr/week) as opposed to L5 hrs of 4 days 16 hrs/week. I liked the tuition better too. She does other sports & things and at the young age of 6/7 I did not want her to never experience other activitites to do gym only. I also figured waiting until she was a little older (just turned 8 in Feb) she could really decided for herself if she wanted to put the comitment in for higher level gymnastics. Yes, I know she loved the gym at age 6 and 7, and would have loved to go to L5 and live at the gym, but I don't want her to burn out & would rather see her go thru this process slowly. Realistically speaking she is not talented, but has a lot of heart and puts alot of herself into being sucessful. This past season has been a huge confidence booster as well. She pretty much placed everytime at all meets except one sectional she had a bad day. Even competed states with her broken foot and placed on floor. She was bored at the end and so was I, and so ready to move up & learn new things, but I think she has the maturity and confidence to do it now. She got her kip right away, does a ROBHSBT too. My only complaint of the L4 program is not getting the girls used to the vault table. My DD is having a hard time with that after doing so well and always getting 9's on the stacked mats, LOL

For Abby, repeating a year will not hurt her. She is still 6 right (or young 7) and by next year she will be older 7 or young 8 and that is perfect age for L5. Think of the money you wil be saving too! At our gym the tuition goes up from 280 to about 340. She will be able to perfect those skills and her form. Many of those beam skills you see at L4 you will need for L5 and L6! It will go by quickly, you will see! Good luck!

 

[mariposa]

Thanks guys! I am really feeling like she is in the right place. My hubby is still not sure why A) I want her repeating level 4 and B) the new gym isn't putting her in level 5. I have tried to explain to him, but he is confused. He is happy that she is happy at the new gym, which I keep trying to tell him is the most important thing. He is so competitive though, it is hard.

 

[gymjourneymom]

If hubby is competetive he should love her repeating L4....she'll do very well! Especially with coaching she's going to get at the new gym!