Proposed 2013 Compulsory Routines & Moving Up

[MaryA]

Everything I know about gymnastics I learned from the Chalk Bucket!

Wow! We should put that on a T-shirt! It's definitely true for me too!

 

[ejgymmom]

Wow! We should put that on a T-shirt! It's definitely true for me too!

Hah! I agree! While we wait for it to end up on a t-shirt I threw it down in my signature. :-D

 

[jcs]

bumping this up since there were some questions about the new levels coming, thought this might be helpful.

 

[cher062]

I saw that on the USAG web page. It looks like all the skills of the levels are moving down one level. So parents are just going to have to understand that it's not safe to go from doing current L4 skills to what is currently L5 skills and so on.

I think I also read that L6 will be the start of the optional levels too.

Seriously though someone isn't thinking at USAG - I can see doing a 5 year plan where they move one or two skills at a time every year down a level until they get the results they want that way it won't be such a shock to the gymnasts, parents, coaches etc.

 

[2gymmies]

Given the current thread on the Prep-Op Level 6 discussion, I started to think that the new Level 6 (actually optionals) might a the step that some gyms are using Prep-Op for! Just a thought...

 

[bribri514]

I believe JO and Elite are intertwined and not really two different streams. Elite is an end and there are several means to that end. There are so many ways to get to be an elite gymnast and realize an Olympic goal. You can go the JO track and go through all the levels (you may take one level per year, skip a level or two, etc.) and test out for elite. You can go the fast track, and not go through the standard JO levels. If the latter is used, there is TOPS for 7-10 year olds that train young gymnasts for higher level skills. TOPs usually train higher level gymnastics already, Level 8 and 9 skills. Then you can go Hopes, 10-12 (pre-elite which tests slightly modified elite skills, L10 and up) and if all things fall into place, you can go elite. The difference is in the latter scenario, you go a lot faster. You want to get the elite level as young as you can so you have more time to master those crazy skills. You don't need to go JO to get to elite nor do you need to go TOPS and Hopes either to get to elite. You can use both at the same time, interchangeably, or separately. As far as the hypothetical gymnast, being an 11 YO L6, she might want to start skipping levels and/or going the fast track. Because by 11, gymnasts aspiring to go elite or Olympics, are already in L9 and L10 and/or testing at Hopes/Pre-elite.

Just to clarify TOPS doesn't train young gymnasts for higher level skills. This coming from someone who went to national camp when I was 8, it's a testing program that focuses on strength, conditioning and flexibility. You go to camp and it's awesome fun and that's it You don't learn actual skills. All gyms should, in theory, use TOPS conditioning because, well, it's just good basics for gymnastics! Some gyms sell it as a "fast track to elite" which is just incorrect and milk money from parents. My gym did the conditioning and training in the TOPS program and only did testing. There was no extra "TOPS class". Many elite girls don't even do TOPS. It's just a program to encourage strength training and flexibility in younger girls to give more the opportunity to go up. But as I said, any gym worth salt will be doing something similar in their basic training program.

I've never known of a girl who hasn't done some sort of JO program, even if they go after some levels to HOPES/pre-elite. But within the program yeah you can go L 1 (though most gyms only start teams at 4 or 5)- 10. ASac, Shawn (the same year I was there! She did much better than me ah ha ha), even Nastia I think went this route. ASac went to TOPS national camp too when she was a kid too I think, but it had no affect on her elite standing. I'm pretty sure they skipped some levels along the line, although I saw the cutest video of 6 y/o Shawn doing the L 4 vault! Or you can test into HOPES around L 9. Does anyone know successful Olympic gymnasts that went this route? I can't think of any. And none of this matters at all if you don't qualify elite.

 

[gymgal]

very interesting thread. I went back to look at the 2009 minutes for the proposed levels and they listed level descriptions. I wonder if they are going to use these instead of level #'s this time around. compulsory is split with beginner, intermediate, and advanced. Optionals is beginner, intermediate, intermediate-advanced and advanced (this is from memory but I think these were the names). This certainly would help with the girls thinking they are going back in levels. For instance, a level 6 the year before the change would then go to beginner optional, which we now consider level 7. I think the names are a bit long but I guess they could come up with abbreviations or do what prep-op does which is bronze, silver, etc.

 

[gymgal]

Just to clarify TOPS doesn't train young gymnasts for higher level skills.

I think I have read that there are gyms that run a TOPS program that isn't just the testing. These gyms fast track the girls by constant training and no competitions. When they have their level 7 skills, then they test out of levels 5 and 6 in 2 meets and just begin level 7. The thought process is that the girls can focus just on skill development, not learning routines or perfection of dance moves. These programs are only for the girls the coaches feel are olympic material. The girls begin working on the very high level skills at very young ages, before the fear factor emerges.

 

[bribri514]

I think I have read that there are gyms that run a TOPS program that isn't just the testing. These gyms fast track the girls by constant training and no competitions. When they have their level 7 skills, then they test out of levels 5 and 6 in 2 meets and just begin level 7. The thought process is that the girls can focus just on skill development, not learning routines or perfection of dance moves. These programs are only for the girls the coaches feel are olympic material. The girls begin working on the very high level skills at very young ages, before the fear factor emerges.

Hmmm interesting. But like I said that's not the TOPS program itself, nor is that what USAG as a whole uses it for. To me that's more a gym using conditioning (you can just stick the TOPS name on it I guess to advertise and bring people in) then doing a lot of other things to fast track girls.

 

[Mack_the_Ripper]

Just to clarify TOPS doesn't train young gymnasts for higher level skills. This coming from someone who went to national camp when I was 8, it's a testing program that focuses on strength, conditioning and flexibility. You go to camp and it's awesome fun and that's it You don't learn actual skills.

Nowadays they test TOPS strength and flexibility, and if they qualify to the National Team they go on to skill testing and a camp where they work skills extensively.

 

[bribri514]

Nowadays they test TOPS strength and flexibility, and if they qualify to the National Team they go on to skill testing and a camp where they work skills extensively.

Ah I stand corrected then! It was different in '99-'00 or whenever it was when I went (the year before they switched it to the Ranch we went to Oklahoma instead, it was a major bummer when I found that out the next year). I still wouldn't classify it as an alternative way through USAG the way almost every gymnast nation wide uses it. The above poster made TOPS seem like something you do instead of levels (outside the gyms gymgal mention but they aren't "USAG TOPS" sanctioned from what I understand, they just use the TOPS conditioning and then uptrain and the like). For the vast majority of girls who participate it's a supplemental program to the USAG levels, definitely not another way to compete. (unless from what I understand and this is taken from the website Can a TOP athlete skip a Junior Olympic level of competition?
Current National TOP Team Members may enter directly into Elite Regional Competitions.) So you'd have to be ready to compete pre-elite/elite between age 7-11. I'm sure it's happened but for 99.99% of the gymnasts out there, probably not.

 

[Muddlethru]

Just to clarify TOPS doesn't train young gymnasts for higher level skills. This coming from someone who went to national camp when I was 8, it's a testing program that focuses on strength, conditioning and flexibility. You go to camp and it's awesome fun and that's it You don't learn actual skills. All gyms should, in theory, use TOPS conditioning because, well, it's just good basics for gymnastics! Some gyms sell it as a "fast track to elite" which is just incorrect and milk money from parents. My gym did the conditioning and training in the TOPS program and only did testing. There was no extra "TOPS class". Many elite girls don't even do TOPS. It's just a program to encourage strength training and flexibility in younger girls to give more the opportunity to go up. But as I said, any gym worth salt will be doing something similar in their basic training program.

I've never known of a girl who hasn't done some sort of JO program, even if they go after some levels to HOPES/pre-elite. But within the program yeah you can go L 1 (though most gyms only start teams at 4 or 5)- 10. ASac, Shawn (the same year I was there! She did much better than me ah ha ha), even Nastia I think went this route. ASac went to TOPS national camp too when she was a kid too I think, but it had no affect on her elite standing. I'm pretty sure they skipped some levels along the line, although I saw the cutest video of 6 y/o Shawn doing the L 4 vault! Or you can test into HOPES around L 9. Does anyone know successful Olympic gymnasts that went this route? I can't think of any. And none of this matters at all if you don't qualify elite.

I echo Mack_the_Ripper post. If the TOPS camp you went was all strengthening exercises and fun, it is certainly different from the TOPS camp now. Even from 5 years ago. In 2006, we had a couple girls qualify for the TOPS National Team and they were not even close to maxing out on their abilities, but they made it. Now, you not only have to max out on the abilities/strength part but be proficient in the skills test, which is level 8, Level 9 and some pre-elite skills. And as Mack_the_Ripper said, they extensively train higher level skills.

 

[bribri514]

Bribri514, you certainly must be speaking of another program The program you describe above that you participated in is only one part of the TOPS program. The TOPS process includes a state testing of abilities which include handstands, half leglifts, rope climbing etc. (see the USAG website). If you qualify or score within the cut-off you get to go to National Testing and test skills. And the skills are Level 8 and Level 9 skills, maybe even some pre-elite skills. These are skills you must already know going into the national testing. If you score well enough and qualify then you are invited to go to the national camp. If you qualify as a TOPS member (A team) all expenses are paid by the USAG. And believe me, the training at this camp is far from just fun and you are definitely trained higher level skills. If you make it as a B TOPS Team member, you are still invited to camp but at your expense. Lastly, it was only last year that 8 year olds were invited to the national training camp. Up until last year, the 8 year olds merely tested the abilities part, which is the strength part of the testing and did not include the skills part. So if you participated in a national camp as an 8 year old, it could not have been the TOPS program.

I'm speaking about my experience for the younger girls who do all go together and did national testing at the training center separated into a TOP Diamond, A and B team. That was mostly based on the TOPs skills that was done in the fall if I remember correctly. Not the older National Team with the skills. If it wasn't TOPs then my entire state screwed up pretty badly.

 

[Muddlethru]

I'm speaking about my experience for the younger girls who do all go together and did national testing at the training center separated into a TOP Diamond, A and B team. That was mostly based on the TOPs skills that was done in the fall if I remember correctly. Not the older National Team with the skills. If it wasn't TOPs then my entire state screwed up pretty badly.

What you state above sounds like TOPS but for the 7 year olds.

I thought you said you personally attended national camp at 8 years old in 1999 and 2000. So, I thought there must be another national camp program out there. But like I said, last year was the first year, they invited the 8 year olds to national testing and to the camp itself. So, it was the first time, I think 8 year olds had to test the skills. What I find "crazy" (for lack of a better word) about the program is that when TOPS started in 1992, the age group was 9 to 12 years old. Then, they dropped the 12 year olds and limited TOPS members who could go to the national camp to 9 to 11. Last year, they dropped the 11 year olds and included the 8 year olds. So, now the age group is 8 to 10. (They still test abilities on 7 year olds and group the qualifiers as Diamond Level or Gold level, think they'll start testing 6 yo?). It is just amazing how the girls keep getting younger and younger.

And to gymgal, you are right that there are gyms that fast track the girls in the manner you mentioned. There are not a lot of them, but our coaches believe they do exist.

Going back to the original post, this trend in the TOPS program seems to be carrying through to the JO. If I understand it correctly, the Level 6s will be called Level 5 in 2013 but will be performing Level 6 skills. I guess the goal is to constantly breakdown barriers.

 

[bribri514]

What you state above sounds like TOPS but for the 7 year olds.

I thought you said you personally attended national camp at 8 years old in 1999 and 2000. So, I thought there must be another national camp program out there. But like I said, last year was the first year, they invited the 8 year olds to national testing and to the camp itself. So, it was the first time, I think 8 year olds had to test the skills. What I find "crazy" (for lack of a better word) about the program is that when TOPS started in 1992, the age group was 9 to 12 years old. Then, they dropped the 12 year olds and limited TOPS members who could go to the national camp to 9 to 11. Last year, they dropped the 11 year olds and included the 8 year olds. So, now the age group is 8 to 10. (They still test abilities on 7 year olds and group the qualifiers as Diamond Level or Gold level, think they'll start testing 6 yo?). It is just amazing how the girls keep getting younger and younger.

And to gymgal, you are right that there are gyms that fast track the girls in the manner you mentioned. There are not a lot of them, but our coaches believe they do exist.

Going back to the original post, this trend in the TOPS program seems to be carrying through to the JO. If I understand it correctly, the Level 6s will be called Level 5 in 2013 but will be performing Level 6 skills. I guess the goal is to constantly breakdown barriers.

I meant that as '99 or '00 as a time frame, then whatever year it was before they started sending girls to the Ranch. It was actually '98 my math is just that horrible. I pretty much knew I was 8 and with girls aged 7-12, then later on 7 and 8. We didn't go to the ranch but they sent us for national testing. (I'm sure my mom has an old photo somewhere she can dig up to prove every detail). Back then that was TOPs for all of us. Like I said, a lot has changed with the program and I definitely stand corrected on it. But I would appreciate if you'd stop telling me I didn't do TOPs and when I did it was "the 7 year old level". I'm sharing my elementary school experience. I'm in college now. Things change. I really love learning about the new things but that doesn't make my experiences any less valid. I was proud of making Diamond level for skills (as in the TOPs conditioning things they do at that age group). I don't like to perpetuate the myth that soooo many gyms do that TOPs = elite fast tracking. For the majority of gyms they test skills, get parents to spend money and that's it. Yes there are exceptions. But not everything is about elite you know.

 

[bribri514]

But yes I agree. It makes me want to tear my hair out how much younger and younger they push girls into elite training. It will backfire. What ever happened to the love of gymnastics? And with the new USAG levels there will be some crazy parents who think little Suzy just loooooveeesss gym (ignoring it's because they force it down her throat) and push her to L 10/elite from L 4 in as few of years as possible. This adds more potential for girls to have to encounter even more difficult skills.

:argh end rant, sorry!!!: i just love gym and hate seeing the crazies

 

[CoachTodd]

I recall a few cycles ago they made Level 4 quite a bit easier than it had been. A kip was required on bars, front limber on floor and so forth. I don't know why they would need to change where the levels fall unless they are trying to get more gyms to compete level 6 instead of just qualifying out. I wonder what they are doing with the mobility scores now. I know the prep opt rules in Region 8 are also based on scores at level 5 and 6. My guess is that they'd just change the requirements to say levels 4 and 5. Quite a few gyms don't do level 4 currently either. I wonder if they are going to put a mobility score on level 4 to get to 5 now.