Repeating L4

[purplesunflowers]

I know that I have posted something similar in the parent forum, but I'm still wrestling with what to do in this situation.

DD is 8 and competed L4 last year. Did fairly well, above 35 at state. She was expecting to move to L5 as half her class did, but she didn't. And she also didn't move up this spring and we're told she'll compete L4 again.

We got a progress report from HC about a month ago, she can do 100% of the L4 skills, and do them well... with little to no deduction. So, she would do very well competing L4.

However, she taught herself a kip (and it's good I've been told), can do a squat on, cartwheel on the beam and is close on her double BHS.

The other gym in our area has moved all L4's up to L5 if they made it to state and has been working L5 skills almost exclusively since July.

DD is hard to read... but she says that she wants to go to the other gym to compete L5. I would hope that she isn't doing this because I have asked her if she's been able to keep her kip because her team is just doing drills (only 2 in the class can do one), and she hasn't been allowed to do one in practice unless it's a "fun time." I don't want her bored, but I also saw her disappointment during the competition season when she didn't get 1st. Her gym really has only been spending about 1/10th of their time on uptraining L5 skills, instead striving to perfect L4 skills.

I've been told by her coach that she will try to spend more time on L5 skills over the summer, but I was also told that back in January. Obviously they have done SOME or she wouldn't have her squat on (she had worked on the cartwheel on beam herself, so I'm not sure if it was learned during classtime or not).

DH likes the other gym better and thinks that she'll do fine learning L5 skills/routines. I'm not sure that she can learn them in 4 months of 12-14 hour weeks. He's pushing to move her to the other gym. I have intimate knowledge of this other gym since older DD competes there. Long complicated story having to do with coaching styles and a child who operates a bit differently.

I'M not so sure...

my worries:

1) This other gym has a track record, but only from last year... of competing girls before they are ready for the level. If DD isn't ready for L5, can't at least score a 35, I don't want her in L5. The L5 coach is fantastic though. I'm not sure if they would let her go back to L4 if she's not ready... or if THEY would think she's ready before she is.

2) On the other hand... L4 doesn't really "build" to L5. Some gyms don't even compete L4... Is this a waste of time staying in L4? Would she be bored if they aren't uptraining L5 skills?

3) I see girls at this other gym who scored below DD at state who are learning advanced skills... and can do them. DD isn't learning back walkover's on the beam, long hang kips and is only somewhat starting on DBHS. It's frustrating to me to see these girls who can do these skills while my DD isn't being taught them. Is this a valid concern, or am I just being petty? I can't tell if they are doing them WELL or just DOING them (untrained eye that I have).

4) Younger DD wants to move to the other gym. She's not getting along with a few of her teammates who are more outgoing than she is... she's a quiet hard worker, very shy. But does she want to move because she can sense my frustration over the advanced skills not being taught? She's very astute even though I try to not let my feelings be known.

I have a meeting with this other gym tonight where I will ask about older DD and just ask their feelings on competing before ready for levels.. how they determine that, etc. I may, at the risk of causing problems with our current gym, ask if they have room on their team.

I'm not going to tell you all which way I'm leaning... which way would YOU lean? And then I'll let this topic drop.

 

[purplesunflowers]

Since JANUARY, I mean. The other gym started working L5 skills exclusively in January.

 

[All Chalked Up]

She should keep on uptraining for level 5, and when she has all the level 5 skills, I'm sure she'll move up. The coaches know what they're doing

 

[Deleted member D3987]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[cher062]

it can be hard to hear that our kids aren't moving up when we think they are ready because they went to states and scored well but the reality is do you trust the coaches and their judgement? if not then why are you at that gym? If you do then you have to know its more than getting a good score and doing a few skills that you have said your DD taught herself. I've seen girls who seem ready by the criteria you discribed only to quit at the next level because they really werent ready. There really is more to it than just scores.

If you really want her to do L5 and you think changing gyms will be the key to do this then you have to be prepared to for them not to move her up too. When you go to a new gym they will "try her out" when they interview with you there is no guarentee that they will have her as a L5. They may let her workout with them but in the end she has to be ready physically, mentally and emotionally. She may practice all summer L5 skills and still compete L4 skills.

My DD was a L7 this past season getting 9's on most everything or high 8's and AA scores in the 35 - 36 range she ended up at least in the top 10 up to 2nd place at states in the individual events with an all around at 8th. That is a big achievement but she will compete L7 again if she doesn't have her L8 skills to the level the coaches want for her. She is training L8 skills and they are in the process of getting L8 floor music etc but she knows none of it will happen if she doesn't get to the level of performance at L8 that the coaches want. With that history the coaches expect her to get the skills over the summer and into the fall but there is not guarentee. They see she is committed and has the drive to move up. Now her team mate didn't do as well at states but did similar to what you describe your dd did but she is training L7 again instead of L8 because the coaches think she isn't ready for L8 more emotionally than physically - she has a few fear issues with doing L7 skills they don't want to continue into L8.

Its hard for us parents to step back and see all aspects of our kids gymnastics mostly because we don't stay the 3 -4 hours each day and see everything the coaches see.

So you either trush the coaches she has and believe they are doing what is best for your DD and her gymnastics or you don't trust them and need to move on to some where you do trust them. it wouldn't hurt to go for the tryout at the other gym and see what they have to say and if everyone but you wants to move then you need to think why you are the only one that doesn't want to move.

Ok putting my soap box back in the closet LOL

 

[bogwoppit]

I think the OP is saying that they aren't uptraining, and that is her issue. Stay at current gym, compete L4 with little uptraining, or move to other gym where she can train L5 but perhaps with less emphasis on "quality" of skills???

 

[cher062]

There must be a reason the coaches don't feel this girl is ready to uptrain and needs another year at L4. i would get clarification on that from the coaches and let them know how you feel.

 

[bogwoppit]

I agree Cher, I posted at exact same time as you and I agree with all that you said. That darn grass always looks so green......

 

[Gymdad2]

I agree with Cher. Ask yourself if you trust her coaches and the answer should tell you what to do. Good Luck and remember the Marathon.

 

[purplesunflowers]

I'll let you know my "gut" reaction now, that I had before posting. I'M leaning towards keeping her at current gym, but DH and older DD don't agree with me at ALL. I was leaning the other direction earlier in the week (moving), but have done a LOT of thinking about this and have tried to remember what she was like after each competition in the fall. She would have been happier placing better. I trust the gym, though sometimes I get the feeling that some kids are favored over others. DD is SO shy, she's not one to look thrilled during practice or during competitions because of her shyness. *I* can tell from the sidelines that she's thrilled to be competing (by her body movements) and she was excited before each competition. She's never NOT wanted to go to practice. I'm not sure the coaches see her this way as they suggested a non JO level for her after the competition season, and I knew she'd NOT be happy to go to a lower level. A lot of the girls in her class really know how to bond with the coach (hugs when they get there, lots of smiles & niceness towards the coach), DD quietly does what she's supposed to do and doesn't rat out other girls when they are not doing what they are supposed to do as some of the other girls are quick to point out to the coach. When she's being shy, she doesn't look happy, but she's always happy after practice and has thrown fits when she's sick and I don't let her go.

 

[bogwoppit]

GO with your gut, she will be massively more confidentwith another year under her belt and it will not slow her down in the grand scheme of things. Level five can be brutal score wise and not every kid is up for that.

 

[purplesunflowers]

I've been trying to encourage her to at least say "hi" to the coach and to smile for awhile now. She'll stand and WANT to talk to her teammates, but I can see the struggle. She loved competing and is proud of her medals. So, I guess I struggle with how I think she's being percieved a bit. I don't think the coaches see the girl who about killed herself on her own time at open gym (at the other gym, which happens to be a bit closer and has an open gym that works better for us time-wise) learning her BHS last year or her kip in the fall. She'd do it over and over and over, and if she was approached by a coach who offered to help (too shy to ask for help) then she'd do it over and over until the coach made her take a break. I'd leave the gym and when I came back they'd tell me.

 

[purplesunflowers]

Ok... Now to talk to DD and DH... and older DD. I think I need to remind her how great it would have been to place in the top. I alsow am still meeting with the other gym tonight to ask about older DD who IS moving to L5... then tomorrow I talk to current gym. I want to make sure that they WILL teach some L5 skills to stave off the boredom. Also, I want to know if the other girl at her same skill level moved up (they won't tell us)... because if she did, DD will be crushed and I'll need to do damage control.

 

[purplesunflowers]

Thanks all!!! What I DON'T want to happen is a bunch of new L4's move into the level... and they completely stop all L5 uptraining in the fall. That would be upsetting to me... Because DD would be very very bored.

 

[gymjourneymom]

I have no problem with repeating levels. Especially since this sounds like the coaches DO have your DD's best interest at heart. They obviously want her to build her self confidence level & compete a successful season, without the stress of struggling to get skills on top of everything else. These are honorable reasons to repeat L4 and I have no problem with that. Remember this sport is just as much mental as it is physical.

But I am curious to know alittle more about why you have your DD's in 2 separate gyms to start with? How is that working out for your family? It sounds like it would be stressful. Especially during competition season. 2 different meet schedules, travel plans, cost, etc. If the separate gym issue is causing problems in your family I think you need to weigh that into your decision as well.

Sorry guess I'm not much help. This does sound like a tricky situation. I can see you are trying to do what is best for all involved & sometimes that does get overwhelming! Good luck with your decision!!!

 

[cher062]

I was wondering why 2 gyms too. I think I would have them at the same gym to make my life easier. Lets face it at L4 and L5 they are the begining stages and the olympics is along way off.

Don't worry either about everyone else and how they are moving up or not. Every kid is different and their needs are different. You and DD have to focus on just DD and forget who did or who didn't move up

 

[MaryA]

She would have been happier placing better.

Maybe this is why she's being "held back"? Some kids thrive on winning while others thrive on constantly learning new skills. If her coach senses that she's in the former category, (s)he may think she'll be happier repeating level 4.

On the other hand, I would still think she'd be doing a fair amount of uptraining right now. All of the girls at our gym are training up a level, even the ones who know they won't be moving up. My complaint with our gym is that all uptraining stops once summer is over, so the girls who trained level 5 over the summer but will be competing level 4 for the 2nd time (for example) will not work on those level 5 skills from September through April (or whenever level 4 states are next year) and will essentially be starting over on them in the spring. Right now there is a group of girls (my DD included) who are training level 6 but are not sure yet if they'll be moving up. I'm really hoping that if they DO repeat level 5, the coaches will find a way to let them continue to work on their level 6 skills throughout the year so that they hit the ground running next year!

 

[gymcoach34]

Thanks all!!! What I DON'T want to happen is a bunch of new L4's move into the level... and they completely stop all L5 uptraining in the fall. That would be upsetting to me... Because DD would be very very bored.

How does you DD feel about it? Im not sure why you think L4 has no bearing on Level 5 and the future of gymnastics. Its all BASIC gymnastics that will follow them up. The biggest concern for me as a coach reading this is that you DD is teaching herself these skills. There MUST be a reason she is being asked to repeat and its GREAT that she doing drills, etc. Its much better to leran a skill correctly and slowly in parts- hence we use drills to teach. Just because she can do a skill does not mean its done correctly.

I guarantee one thing, if your DD repeats and you keep telling her she's bored, asking about what skills she is working or NOT working etc- all the enjoyment will fade away from her gymnastics. She will be bored if you tell her she is bored- and gymnastics done correctly can be boring... lots of repetition, repeating it again and going back to basics. A 35 AA to me is not the AA that would lead me to be certain that she was doing the L4's skills w perfect form & w perfect technique. Scores tend to be very high in Level 4 if the routines are performed well- if she was scoring 37 or 38's I would be concerned about her repeating.

There really isnt a middle of the road answer to this... it sounds like your choices are a gym that slowly progresses kids and wants perfect form / technique or a gym that moves kids forward and onto skills quickly. Only you can decide what works best for you...

 

[eme777]

I understand your concerns for your daughter not being given opportunities to uptrain. They can lose so much, especially if they hit a growth spurt, & they're not allowed to practice their skills. I've seen both sides, no uptraining vs. only uptraining & not being ready for meets & strongly believe there is a happy medium. It sounds like your daughter may enjoy & benefit from a program that would make the chance to train up as a reward. Example: show me 5 great routines with these corrections, then we'll work on your level 5 skills. It doesn't seem like the old gym is doing much of this, but would the new gym? It sounds like she should repeat level 4, for her own confidence, but I hope you can find a way for her to perfect level 4 routines while being challenged with some new things. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Bella's Mom]

I was wondering why 2 gyms too. I think I would have them at the same gym to make my life easier. Lets face it at L4 and L5 they are the begining stages and the olympics is along way off.

Don't worry either about everyone else and how they are moving up or not. Every kid is different and their needs are different. You and DD have to focus on just DD and forget who did or who didn't move up

We have a two-gym family at our gym too. They have a son and a daughter and they train in different towns! I asked the mom why she opted to have them go to different gyms especially since her son goes to the second best gym in the state. She said the daughter really loves the coaching staff and atmosphere at our gym so she makes the sacrifice for both of her kids to stay at the gyms they love.

I admire her but I don't think I could do it. The poor women has two competitive gymnasts competing for gyms in different towns. She says she is in the gym six days a week.