Saying No thanks to TOPS

[NotAMom]

( I have yet to figure out how to make the quote thing work )

Very simply, just click QUOTE. Then make sure the text you want to quote is enclosed by an open tag [noparse]

[/noparse]

and a close tag [noparse]

[/noparse].

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

I do have a question for the gyms whose HC does not think it benefits in the long run. Why is that? I would like to hear both sides of the debate. Thanks,

Sean

I know that DD's previous gym doesn't do it b/c they believe with the proper, focused training, the girls can get to Elite w/o having the extra time devoted JUST to a TOPs program. They believe the strength and flexibility training is part of the overal gymnastics training.

Obviously they know what they're doing. They trained such athletes as Ashley Postell, Katie Heenan, Brooke Parker (if I may name drop here), as well as many others. They also had a girl just win a silver medal at the Maccabiah games in Israel. They must be doing something great and all without the TOPs program!

 

[gymnut1]

I think there are different factors here...


There has to be unless your gym admits nothing but the cream of the crop and nothing else, which would not make good business sense. TOPS training is very intensive. Many gymnasts cannot handle it and do not want to be a part of it (as most don't even like doing normal conditioning).

I dont see why there HAS to be an extra class for TOPS. Many if not all the tests/ skills could be part of a usual training regime. I think you could do it within your usual conditioning session.

TOPS seems a good preparation for gymnastics but not the only way to build strength and flexibility. Many top gyms don't participate (I dont think WOGA do) and it doesn't suit every gym or every child.

Strength and flexibility dont make a gymnast on their own. I believe the skills testing doesn't come in until children are 9 years old, so 7 and 8 is only strength and flexibility. Personally I think guts and determination are as important as strength and flexibility. If you are too scared to BHS on beam the judge doesn't care if you can climb a rope in 2 seconds. IMHO fear not lack of strength is the biggest preventer of progression. You need everything don't you. Perhaps they should include 'fear' tests for TOPS lol and make them do parachute jumps or something.

But I think TOPS looks great (we dont have it in UK) for focusing the younger child and helping them see a reason for all the conditioning. And getting to national testing and then the camps is a fantastic goal. The children who get there are truely amazing. I know I would put my dd in it if we did it here. There is certainly a place for it as long as it doesn't become the primary goal of a club.

 

[snowbound]

If you are too scared to BHS on beam the judge doesn't care if you can climb a rope in 2 seconds. IMHO fear not lack of strength is the biggest preventer of progression. You need everything don't you. Perhaps they should include 'fear' tests for TOPS lol and make them do parachute jumps or something.

Well said!

Snowbound

 

[NotAMom]

I dont see why there HAS to be an extra class for TOPS. Many if not all the tests/ skills could be part of a usual training regime. I think you could do it within your usual conditioning session.

Yes and no. There is no need for an extra class but there has to be hours (either during or outside normal practice) focused solely on the development and preparation. And no, these drills/skills are not typical (I didn't say nonexistent) in normal training. I know that being a fact in our competing region.

Strength and flexibility dont make a gymnast on their own. I believe the skills testing doesn't come in until children are 9 years old, so 7 and 8 is only strength and flexibility. Personally I think guts and determination are as important as strength and flexibility. If you are too scared to BHS on beam the judge doesn't care if you can climb a rope in 2 seconds. IMHO fear not lack of strength is the biggest preventer of progression. You need everything don't you. Perhaps they should include 'fear' tests for TOPS lol and make them do parachute jumps or something..

I agree with what you're saying in general. But, there are underlying conditions/assumptions/goals (and an unstated goal) for the participants. The kids will be moving up the rank far quicker than the normal progression (say L4 to L8 in 2-3 years) and ultimately to the elite level at a relatively young age(say by the age of 14 to 15). In addition, it is supposedly a scientifically developed program taking all aspects into account. TOPS builds strength and flexibility that are applied towards the normal skills and presentation. These kids attend competions and get judged based on their performances just like all other gymnasts.

Like you said, just strength and flexibility alone is not very useful in gymnastics (sort of like a body building contortionist). So to me, skill competence, resistance to fear and determination are all a given once you're in the program.

There is certainly a place for it as long as it doesn't become the primary goal of a club.

Well that depends on the club. Some do it solely to crank out the best (as a supplement to their own elite programs). Some less agressive clubs (like ours at the time) do it to reap the benefits that are above and over what normal training and the usual competing circuit can offer.

 

[mariposa]

Interesting thread!

I don't think Abby would be a candidate for TOPs or know if she would want to do the training.

Her old gym did not do TOPs (though they are doing it now because they have a coach that had come in when we were there and I think he might have done TOPs at his previous gym).

Her new gym does not seem to do TOPs either. They are not an elite gym, but it seems that they do have a girl a year at least that gets a college scholarship. They incorporate some of the TOPs stuff into the training though. Abby couldn't even lift herself off the ground to even attempt a press handstand when she started at her new gym and 4 months later, she can do one though she is working on controlling it. She is very proud of herself for that skill, they call them stalders and it is a big deal if you can make one. They have little competitions between the groups to see which group can do the most, etc, and they are out there laughing and having fun doing stalders. I fail to see how that could be fun, LOL. They do sometimes get Otter Pops for them though, I wish I could get her to do stuff at home for Otter Pops.

I think it is probably a very useful program for many girls. Luckily it is a choice the gyms can make and isn't required.

 

[gymnut1]

Yes and no. There is no need for an extra class but there has to be hours (either during or outside normal practice) focused solely on the development and preparation. And no, these drills/skills are not typical (I didn't say nonexistent) in normal training. I know that being a fact in our competing region.

As a coach I think that the strength and flex bit of TOPS (ie the cast handstands, presses, leg lifts etc) are absolutely part of every competitive gymnasts general training. You might do different versions of each exercise but you would have to cover them all. I just meant it should be possible if you wanted to do TOPS to do each exercise the way TOPS wants you to to save having to have the kids in the gym so many hours. The skills are a little different but dont come in till age 9.



Like you said, just strength and flexibility alone is not very useful in gymnastics (sort of like a body building contortionist). So to me, skill competence, resistance to fear and determination are all a given once you're in the program.

Aah but that isn't necessarily true because the tests dont test fear. We have a gymnast who can crank out all the tests perfectly but cannot overcome her fear to ROBHS or back walkover on beam. So she cant compete but she could excell at TOPS. (until she got to Houston and couldn't do the skills LOL)

Well that depends on the club. Some do it solely to crank out the best (as a supplement to their own elite programs). Some less agressive clubs (like ours at the time) do it to reap the benefits that are above and over what normal training and the usual competing circuit can offer.

I do agree it has massive benefits especially to self confidence, skill basis, building blocks, etc. How amazing to get ot camp A. The kids who get there are truely amazing, the creme of the creme. Like I said I would make me DD do it if we had it as it would make her focus abit better (maybe that is just wishful thinking ;] )