Parents Talent v. Expense

[e'smum]

So we just switched to Xcel but not for financial reasons. My kiddo has Osgoods and her knee couldn't take the JO hours for lvl 8. It's been the best decision. It keeps my kiddo in the gym doing what she loves but gives her body a break and she is pain free mostly (a little sore some nights but nothing like it was). However, I am only paying $100 less a month for about 60% fewer hours in the gym each week. About $1k less for the season for meet fees. So in the scheme of things, about $2300 less a year. Which isn't much in gym dollars. haha. Our Xcel doesn't go to their big travel meet either, so i'm saving $ that way but we never went to the big travel meet as a JO family either. But Xcel can be an option that you can look into to see if it's more budget friendly for you.

 

[e'smum]

Dang, not going to complain about our costs. We pay $595 per month for level 10/elite training, 25 hours per week. We do not pay meet fees or travel fees for coaches. Have never once done a private lesson.

That's interesting. Do you think your $595 covers meet/coaches fees? Usually meet fees are about $150/meet for us. Some a little less. I can't imagine a gym taking that cost on per gymnast.

 

[doublestrike]

Wow, had no idea Silicon Valley was that much more expensive than LA, grew up in between both those gyms. My dd is Level 10 at a top LA gym with elites and we pay $700 plus $100 for privates--when we want them. Elite training is more. Level 7's pay about $100 less. Orange County is even less, about $500 month on average for a gym with elites.

 

[MILgymFAM]

We did gym in Pasadena and then the Bay Area, and it was consistently more expensive up north. By a good amount too.

 

[FlippinLilysMom]

That's interesting. Do you think your $595 covers meet/coaches fees? Usually meet fees are about $150/meet for us. Some a little less. I can't imagine a gym taking that cost on per gymnast.

We have a booster club that covers all meet fees and coaches travel fees. The only time we have had to pay for those things was for elite meets as the elite girls still aren’t covered by the booster club. But that is hopefully changing this year.

 

[tomtnt]

How many hours do you volunteer for the booster club and how much is your time worth?lol.. we have similar situation and wonder if it’s worth it..

We have a booster club that covers all meet fees and coaches travel fees. The only time we have had to pay for those things was for elite meets as the elite girls still aren’t covered by the booster club. But that is hopefully changing this year.

 

[FlippinLilysMom]

How many hours do you volunteer for the booster club and how much is your time worth?lol.. we have similar situation and wonder if it’s worth it..

We are required to participate in at least 2 of our fundraisers (selling frozen pizzas, butter braids or plants). Participation could be as little as selling one item but almost all members do more than that. Also required to work at all meets that we host. We always host two, one compulsory and one optional, and most years we will host one of our state meets. I also serve on the board and attend our monthly meetings. Totally worth it. Lily has been on team for 5 years and we have never had to pay one meet fee or coaches fees (except for last years classic and championship meets for hopes). But I’m also the odd parent that would work every single meet if I could. Our booster club raised over $100k last year and we are hoping to raise even more this year.

 

[Flicfliclay]

We are required to participate in at least 2 of our fundraisers (selling frozen pizzas, butter braids or plants). Participation could be as little as selling one item but almost all members do more than that. Also required to work at all meets that we host. We always host two, one compulsory and one optional, and most years we will host one of our state meets. I also serve on the board and attend our monthly meetings. Totally worth it. Lily has been on team for 5 years and we have never had to pay one meet fee or coaches fees (except for last years classic and championship meets for hopes). But I’m also the odd parent that would work every single meet if I could. Our booster club raised over $100k last year and we are hoping to raise even more this year.

Sounds awesome! So your booster has to spend all of that 100k each year, do they ever have a problem with that?

 

[FlippinLilysMom]

Sounds awesome! So your booster has to spend all of that 100k each year, do they ever have a problem with that?

I guess I'm not understanding your question, are you asking if people on the booster club prefer NOT to spend the money we raise or if we have a problem finding things to spend it on? We definitely don't have a problem finding things to spend it on. Every year at our budget meeting we come up with a priorities list, and we go down the list and pay thing until we don't any enough money left to cover the next item on the list. We are allowed to carry over a small amount each year. Meet fees and coaches fees are always covered and this year we will be able to pay for the bus that the girls and coaches will take on the team travel meet in January.

 

[Musicmama]

That's interesting. Do you think your $595 covers meet/coaches fees? Usually meet fees are about $150/meet for us. Some a little less. I can't imagine a gym taking that cost on per gymnast.

We pay a similar amount for optionals and it covers meet costs and coaches' fees. We don't have a booster club or do any fundraising. We still have to cover our own child's travel costs, but everything else (meet fees, coaches' travel costs, competition leo, warmups, team bags, etc) is included. One of the parents tallied it up a year or so ago and figured that the other local-ish gym that doesn't have inclusive fees is probably cheaper over all even with paying the meet fees out of pocket, but I really like that we aren't ever hit with any extra costs and know exactly how much we need to pay every month.

I believe it's similar to how electric companies will sometimes offer to average out your costs over the entire year so you aren't paying significantly more during the really cold or hot months.

 

[Flicfliclay]

I guess I'm not understanding your question, are you asking if people on the booster club prefer NOT to spend the money we raise or if we have a problem finding things to spend it on? We definitely don't have a problem finding things to spend it on. Every year at our budget meeting we come up with a priorities list, and we go down the list and pay thing until we don't any enough money left to cover the next item on the list. We are allowed to carry over a small amount each year. Meet fees and coaches fees are always covered and this year we will be able to pay for the bus that the girls and coaches will take on the team travel meet in January.

I was just wondering if they spent it all as the guidelines are to spend whatever is made ...

 

[Freddy's Fred]

I guess I'm not understanding your question, are you asking if people on the booster club prefer NOT to spend the money we raise or if we have a problem finding things to spend it on? We definitely don't have a problem finding things to spend it on. Every year at our budget meeting we come up with a priorities list, and we go down the list and pay thing until we don't any enough money left to cover the next item on the list. We are allowed to carry over a small amount each year. Meet fees and coaches fees are always covered and this year we will be able to pay for the bus that the girls and coaches will take on the team travel meet in January.

I am so amazed by how much you are able to raise. Can you break it down by profit? For instance how much money to y'all make selling things and how much comes from the meets?

 

[FlippinLilysMom]

I am so amazed by how much you are able to raise. Can you break it down by profit? For instance how much money to y'all make selling things and how much comes from the meets?

We always host two meets, the compulsory meet is 100% put on by the booster club, so all funds raised from that meet go directly back to the club. The other meet, the optional meet, is put on by our gym owners and the booster club helps with staffing the meet. The booster club gets 100% of the proceeds from the concession stand sales for that meet and any other meets that the gym owners host. I would say that about 25-30% of our profits come from the meets. This last year we started trying to get sponsors for the booster club, we were able to get a title sponsor for $10,000 and a few smaller sponsors for $500-$2500. That would account for about another 25% of our profits. The rest of the profits come from our sales fundraisers, our best ones are the frozen pizza sales, the butterbraids sale and the plant sale. We also do a use leo/apparel sale in the gym, we do Plumraisers and we just started doing Amazon Smile.

 

[suebee]

We always host two meets, the compulsory meet is 100% put on by the booster club, so all funds raised from that meet go directly back to the club. The other meet, the optional meet, is put on by our gym owners and the booster club helps with staffing the meet. The booster club gets 100% of the proceeds from the concession stand sales for that meet and any other meets that the gym owners host. I would say that about 25-30% of our profits come from the meets. This last year we started trying to get sponsors for the booster club, we were able to get a title sponsor for $10,000 and a few smaller sponsors for $500-$2500. That would account for about another 25% of our profits. The rest of the profits come from our sales fundraisers, our best ones are the frozen pizza sales, the butterbraids sale and the plant sale. We also do a use leo/apparel sale in the gym, we do Plumraisers and we just started doing Amazon Smile.

Wow, so your booster club raises $50K in sales fundraisers? I have never seen any fundraisers come close to anything like that.

Can you tell us a little bit more about how much one fundraiser raises, how long you run a fundraiser for (say the frozen pizza one), and how much you find each family sells? And who are they selling to? I think the problem for most of our fundraisers are that people generally sell to family, there is only so much any families want to buy.

 

[FlippinLilysMom]

Wow, so your booster club raises $50K in sales fundraisers? I have never seen any fundraisers come close to anything like that.

Can you tell us a little bit more about how much one fundraiser raises, how long you run a fundraiser for (say the frozen pizza one), and how much you find each family sells? And who are they selling to? I think the problem for most of our fundraisers are that people generally sell to family, there is only so much any families want to buy.

Yeah, now that I think about it that percentage for our sales fundraisers can't be right. I think we probably made $25,000 on our sales fundraisers. I'd have to go back and look at our balance sheet from last year to be sure, but that sounds closer. I have no idea who people sell to. I know that for me it's pretty easy, I'm part of my neighborhoods email group, which includes not just my close neighbors but basically the entire city I live in. So when we are doing a fundraiser I just send out an email to that group, letting people know about the fundraiser and they can respond if they want to order something. Our last fundraiser, for butterbraids, I sold over 50 butterbraids doing this. The risk we take doing it this way is that we will have to front the money and then I collect the money from those who bought the butterbraids when I deliver them. So far everyone has always come through, I've never had anyone stiff me yet.

 

[Freddy's Fred]

Yeah, now that I think about it that percentage for our sales fundraisers can't be right. I think we probably made $25,000 on our sales fundraisers. I'd have to go back and look at our balance sheet from last year to be sure, but that sounds closer. I have no idea who people sell to. I know that for me it's pretty easy, I'm part of my neighborhoods email group, which includes not just my close neighbors but basically the entire city I live in. So when we are doing a fundraiser I just send out an email to that group, letting people know about the fundraiser and they can respond if they want to order something. Our last fundraiser, for butterbraids, I sold over 50 butterbraids doing this. The risk we take doing it this way is that we will have to front the money and then I collect the money from those who bought the butterbraids when I deliver them. So far everyone has always come through, I've never had anyone stiff me yet.

And then do you have to buy Boy Scout popcorn, and girl scout cookies, and band citrus from the 50 people you sold to ? I hate selling stuff because mostly I hate what's being sold. We did sell wreaths one year and Tervis tumblers, but still I think I only sold them to myself. I think meets are a great fundraiser. And I've heard of people making a ton hosting Bingo -- but that's not popular where I live. Our gym has also worked concessions at major sporting events.

 

[mommyof1]

And I've heard of people making a ton hosting Bingo -- but that's not popular where I live.

Our booster club started hosting bingo last season. We lost money for most of the first season, which was expected, but it still doesn't seem that we are making much of a profit. I have to put in 16+ hours of unpaid labor per season, all late at night in the middle of the week, to avoid paying a buyout that amounts to about $25 per hour. The actual benefit will work out to maybe $100 per family this year. To run a really profitable bingo game, you need to build up a dedicated contingent of regulars. I believe our break-even point is somewhere around 60 players per night, and we are hovering right around that.

On top of the unprofitability, I have some ethical concerns now that I've seen it in action. When I first heard "bingo," I imagined a bunch of retired people buying paper cards for something like $1 per game and sitting there with felt-tipped daubers while the caller hand-drew the balls from a little wire cage. In reality, our players appear to be spending well over $100 per night each to rent electronic contraptions that play dozens of games for them automatically, and to buy "instant" tickets that are similar to scratch-off lottery tickets. They get some, but not all, of that back in prize money. Because of the volume of money changing hands and the amount of electronic equipment involved, the atmosphere is less "nice little old ladies having a social night out" and more "seedy casino on the edge of Reno." (I even have to wear a little apron with pockets for tickets and money, like some sort of casino attendant.) In addition, these people play with us every week, and at other games during the week, and they don't appear to be the sort of people who just have that kind of money lying around. Heck, I couldn't even afford to play myself if I wanted to. I know it's their free choice to spend their money how they please, but that doesn't mean I need to be out there encouraging them.

Before the booster club decided to start hosting bingo, the lack of bingo was one of the things I appreciated most about our gym. Next year I may buy out of bingo, even though it will cost a ton and make me look as if I'm not a team player.

 

[LemonLime]

My smallest bills in gymnastics were when one of my daughters was on the elite team at an Olympic-producing gym. She trained around 32 hours per week, there was no need for privates even though the team was large for elite, competition leos were donated by leo companies, the HC kept clothing costs down even though everything was cute, coaches charged no fees for camp, USAG paid for her travel to camp (and there were no camp fees charged by USAG), and - most importantly - the booster earned part of the profits at meets and shared their wealth. That profit paid for meet fees and coach travel meet fees. They gym also allowed gymnasts to stay at the gym during the day so there were no back-and-forths or childcare expenses. Basically, I paid $625 per month for three successful elite seasons. That same gym and its equivalents in Texas now charge around $750 per month.

We did not live in the promise land forever. At other gyms ...

We had three gymnasts compete at the Hopes Challenge/Nationals. The booster refused to cover tops/hopes/elite expenses so we were on our own. Coaches charged us $2000 each for the 3-day meet which covered, among other things, the coaches' room service bill, "team" travel which meant paying both "renting" the coaches' car and paying their gas. Younger child was charged $600 in booster fees for the equivalent of Level 3. Peace out.

My daughter was an elite at another gym. Coaches forbade a booster. They let me book everything myself which helped, but it was extremely pricey.

We've been charged $725 for a competition warmup and $600 for a meet leo. I'm sorry, but that's wildly inappropriate no matter how pretty.


Overall, if the L10 or elite coaches own the gym, you are probably going to pay less. You probably are unlikely to need privates in those situations too. Privates are genuinely necessary in some gyms, and not in others. We have been in both situations. Any coach charging more than $100 an hour for privates, however, is way off market because Olympic coaches rarely charge more than $100/hour.

You are also going to pay less if you have a booster who owns or takes part of the profit from meets. It's a tax violation for parents to be required to work a meet for which they do not earn a part of the profits, but it's a common practice for owners to keep all the funds.

Gymnasts cannot be scholarshipped unless their scholarship comes from the booster. The problem is NCAA eligibility, not taxes, but again it's a common practice.

 

[FlippinLilysMom]

My smallest bills in gymnastics were when one of my daughters was on the elite team at an Olympic-producing gym. She trained around 32 hours per week, there was no need for privates even though the team was large for elite, competition leos were donated by leo companies, the HC kept clothing costs down even though everything was cute, coaches charged no fees for camp, USAG paid for her travel to camp (and there were no camp fees charged by USAG), and - most importantly - the booster earned part of the profits at meets and shared their wealth. That profit paid for meet fees and coach travel meet fees. They gym also allowed gymnasts to stay at the gym during the day so there were no back-and-forths or childcare expenses. Basically, I paid $625 per month for three successful elite seasons. That same gym and its equivalents in Texas now charge around $750 per month.

We did not live in the promise land forever. At other gyms ...

We had three gymnasts compete at the Hopes Challenge/Nationals. The booster refused to cover tops/hopes/elite expenses so we were on our own. Coaches charged us $2000 each for the 3-day meet which covered, among other things, the coaches' room service bill, "team" travel which meant paying both "renting" the coaches' car and paying their gas. Younger child was charged $600 in booster fees for the equivalent of Level 3. Peace out.

My daughter was an elite at another gym. Coaches forbade a booster. They let me book everything myself which helped, but it was extremely pricey.

We've been charged $725 for a competition warmup and $600 for a meet leo. I'm sorry, but that's wildly inappropriate no matter how pretty.


Overall, if the L10 or elite coaches own the gym, you are probably going to pay less. You probably are unlikely to need privates in those situations too. Privates are genuinely necessary in some gyms, and not in others. We have been in both situations. Any coach charging more than $100 an hour for privates, however, is way off market because Olympic coaches rarely charge more than $100/hour.

You are also going to pay less if you have a booster who owns or takes part of the profit from meets. It's a tax violation for parents to be required to work a meet for which they do not earn a part of the profits, but it's a common practice for owners to keep all the funds.

Gymnasts cannot be scholarshipped unless their scholarship comes from the booster. The problem is NCAA eligibility, not taxes, but again it's a common practice.

Your first experience sounds a lot like ours, the gym is owned by the head coaches/elite coaches and are monthly fees are pretty fair, from what I can tell, and they try and keep the costs that aren't covered by the booster club as low as possible. They will always try and use their miles or hotel points towards any airline fees or hotel stay fees and they never charge us a coaching fee for elite meets or camps. Our comp leos have been $350 both times we've had to purchase one (the girls wear them for 2 years) and our warm-ups are very basic, the entire outfit, with the backpack and slides, was less than $100 and they don't plan to change the warm-up anytime soon, so unless Lily grows out of something we don't have to purchase anything new there.

 

[tomtnt]

By the sound of all this, your booster club is probably out of compliance with the IRS.

Bingo is usually only allowed to be operated by 501c3 nonprofits. These booster club nonprofits can not technically force anyone to volunteer or buy out- the money raised must be equally shared regardless of participation (you can shame people Into volunteering but not deny them funding)

Our club used to do bingo as well - got audited few times by IRS due to whistleblowers.. bingo was once extremely profitable but became really a huge drain on human resource for very little profit.

Our booster club started hosting bingo last season. We lost money for most of the first season, which was expected, but it still doesn't seem that we are making much of a profit. I have to put in 16+ hours of unpaid labor per season, all late at night in the middle of the week, to avoid paying a buyout that amounts to about $25 per hour. The actual benefit will work out to maybe $100 per family this year. To run a really profitable bingo game, you need to build up a dedicated contingent of regulars. I believe our break-even point is somewhere around 60 players per night, and we are hovering right around that.

On top of the unprofitability, I have some ethical concerns now that I've seen it in action. When I first heard "bingo," I imagined a bunch of retired people buying paper cards for something like $1 per game and sitting there with felt-tipped daubers while the caller hand-drew the balls from a little wire cage. In reality, our players appear to be spending well over $100 per night each to rent electronic contraptions that play dozens of games for them automatically, and to buy "instant" tickets that are similar to scratch-off lottery tickets. They get some, but not all, of that back in prize money. Because of the volume of money changing hands and the amount of electronic equipment involved, the atmosphere is less "nice little old ladies having a social night out" and more "seedy casino on the edge of Reno." (I even have to wear a little apron with pockets for tickets and money, like some sort of casino attendant.) In addition, these people play with us every week, and at other games during the week, and they don't appear to be the sort of people who just have that kind of money lying around. Heck, I couldn't even afford to play myself if I wanted to. I know it's their free choice to spend their money how they please, but that doesn't mean I need to be out there encouraging them.

Before the booster club decided to start hosting bingo, the lack of bingo was one of the things I appreciated most about our gym. Next year I may buy out of bingo, even though it will cost a ton and make me look as if I'm not a team player.