To leave or not to leave?

[mayestra12]

My dd is 7 and entering 2nd grade. She is well behaved at school and has lots of friends (not shy at all!). She has had a few instances of school avoidance due to her worries but we have always managed to get her on the bus and surprisingly she did not miss one day of school in first grade!

She has classic GAD symptoms. She lives in a world of "what if and if only". She can't let go of simple things that other children don't even think about. She's constantly worries about the "what ifs." It's why she missed practice yesterday. What if I don't get my bhs and everyone else does? What if I land on my knees? The list goes on and on. Why she can go sometimes fine and not others is a mystery. She is currently at camp at her gym and had no issue going in this morning. Camp = no worries. Team practice = stress, fear, worry etc. She also has a new coach this summer who is not as warm and fuzzy and the young girls she had during the school year.

I know it is probably best to take her off team but I don't what to because I know dd will feel like a failure and she will certainly be depressed. She is already borderline depressed with her anxiety. It will crush her spirit and her soul and she lives for gymnastics. However, I do need to put some kind of plan in place before fall schedule starts. I cannot afford a $220 team uniform / leo, monthly fees, and meet fees for this not be under control. Summer is what it is and I will ride it out will her but if she wants to compete in the fall then we must get a grip on this now.

My goal is to work with her this weekend and come up with some sort of new technique or strategy for next weeks team practices. Not sure what that will be but we'll work on it. Suggestions?

All my research says no medication for kids under 12. Honestly, I want to make some changes to how we handle things at home and see if it helps. If not we will re-evaluate. She likes her therapist so I don't want to change things up on her. I will ask if she can give us more tricks / techniques to use. We already do breathing, massage, etc. at home. I'm not expecting it to go away but I do think it can be managed better than it is now. DD currently has some behavior issues surrounding the anxiety that we are trying to work on as well. The behavior (aggressive / avoiding) is actually a bigger source of stress /conflict in our family than her worries / fears.

Sorry this is so long! It's been a rough few days. Maybe when I pick her up at gym she will have done something amazing to help her self confidence. She's been telling me she's close to her kip! She needs a bhs! I really feel getting her bhs would be such a boost for her but I have no idea if she's close or not. She most likely avoids it for fear of failing

 

[gymdog]

Do you think her teachers at school might have some ideas? Maybe it is something about the routine and expectations of school that help your daughter manage her anxiety there. I think that is a very good sign and changes my perception of the issue somewhat. Perhaps you could talk to your daughter about how she is able to manage the school day and see what her insight is, and apply some of that to the summer? Again to me what would stand out is that in the summer these issues can be magnified because of the absence of a routine. For a child who has trouble transitioning, predicting, and letting go of "what ifs", not having a routine or predictable structure can be very difficult. It's a fine line because you don't want to encourage rigidity, but you also want to load the environment for success.

 

[Chocoholic]

I'm not sure what research you are referring to with respect to "no medication under 12" but I don't think that information is accurate. I'm not advocating medicine for your child, but I don't think you should take it off the table because of an arbitrary age point. My daughter's best friend suffered from anxiety for years and it eventually manifested itself in an eating disorder. Her parents had always been reluctant to treat her anxiety and related depression, but at age 10 when she started severely restricting her food they went ahead. Their daughter is a different person now, much much happier! There is actually a strong body of research that speaks to the harm of allowing a person to remain depressed because it does start to affect the hard wiring of the brain. Please take your daughter to see a good child psychiatrist. If the anxiety is only a real problem at gymnastics, then it may be best just to stop that sport. But if is impeding her life in other significant ways, she really may benefit from medical intervention.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

My dd is 7 and entering 2nd grade. She is well behaved at school and has lots of friends (not shy at all!). She has had a few instances of school avoidance due to her worries but we have always managed to get her on the bus and surprisingly she did not miss one day of school in first grade!

She has classic GAD symptoms. She lives in a world of "what if and if only". She can't let go of simple things that other children don't even think about. She's constantly worries about the "what ifs." It's why she missed practice yesterday. What if I don't get my bhs and everyone else does? What if I land on my knees? The list goes on and on. Why she can go sometimes fine and not others is a mystery. She is currently at camp at her gym and had no issue going in this morning. Camp = no worries. Team practice = stress, fear, worry etc. She also has a new coach this summer who is not as warm and fuzzy and the young girls she had during the school year.

I know it is probably best to take her off team but I don't what to because I know dd will feel like a failure and she will certainly be depressed. She is already borderline depressed with her anxiety. It will crush her spirit and her soul and she lives for gymnastics. However, I do need to put some kind of plan in place before fall schedule starts. I cannot afford a $220 team uniform / leo, monthly fees, and meet fees for this not be under control. Summer is what it is and I will ride it out will her but if she wants to compete in the fall then we must get a grip on this now.

My goal is to work with her this weekend and come up with some sort of new technique or strategy for next weeks team practices. Not sure what that will be but we'll work on it. Suggestions?

All my research says no medication for kids under 12. Honestly, I want to make some changes to how we handle things at home and see if it helps. If not we will re-evaluate. She likes her therapist so I don't want to change things up on her. I will ask if she can give us more tricks / techniques to use. We already do breathing, massage, etc. at home. I'm not expecting it to go away but I do think it can be managed better than it is now. DD currently has some behavior issues surrounding the anxiety that we are trying to work on as well. The behavior (aggressive / avoiding) is actually a bigger source of stress /conflict in our family than her worries / fears.

Sorry this is so long! It's been a rough few days. Maybe when I pick her up at gym she will have done something amazing to help her self confidence. She's been telling me she's close to her kip! She needs a bhs! I really feel getting her bhs would be such a boost for her but I have no idea if she's close or not. She most likely avoids it for fear of failing

actually, i do have a couple of suggestions.

start in the kitchen. have her intentionally knock over a glass of milk. she'll look at you like your nuts. tell her you are. then sit and look at the milk on the floor for a couple of minutes. then clean it up.

then pour a bowl of dry cereal on your carpet. tell her you are "nuts and honey". then stare at the cereal for a couple of minutes. then get out the vacuum.

now relate both to gymnastics. you fall, you take spills, you sit for a moment to make sure you're all right and then you get up and do it again. and it's okay! it's not good to be perfect!! coaches WANT you to screw up so that you can learn how to clean it up!!!

fall down 7 times...get up 8...with a smile.

and if this doesn't get the point across, go up to her bedroom and make a complete mess and try again!

 

[LMV]

I'm not sure what research you are referring to with respect to "no medication under 12" but I don't think that information is accurate. I'm not advocating medicine for your child, but I don't think you should take it off the table because of an arbitrary age point. My daughter's best friend suffered from anxiety for years and it eventually manifested itself in an eating disorder. Her parents had always been reluctant to treat her anxiety and related depression, but at age 10 when she started severely restricting her food they went ahead. Their daughter is a different person now, much much happier! There is actually a strong body of research that speaks to the harm of allowing a person to remain depressed because it does start to affect the hard wiring of the brain. Please take your daughter to see a good child psychiatrist. If the anxiety is only a real problem at gymnastics, then it may be best just to stop that sport. But if is impeding her life in other significant ways, she really may benefit from medical intervention.

Actually, Mayestra’s statement is not incorrect if you are talking about GAD and FDA approved treatments. Now if there is another relevant diagnosis [and in kids ADHD, depression, GAD, and OCD can overlap, intersect, and manifest in less typical fashions so this isn’t impossible but it’s not something any of us can or should try to determine based on her posts] then this may be less the case. This is probably another argument for seeing a child psychiatrist or perhaps seeing a second one if there is question. Second opinions can be helpful sometimes if there is uncertainty or if things aren't improving.

As far as the FDA is concerned:
-There isn’t anything approved for treating GAD in patients under 18
-Fluoxetine is approved for OCD in patients age 7 and up
-Fluoexetine is also approved depression in patients age 8 and up
-Escitalopram is approved for depression patients age 12 and up
-Various stimulant and non-stimulant medications are approved for ADHD/ADD

I’m not saying that there may not be clinical situations where a physician would weigh the potential risks and benefits of medication and conclude that a well monitored trial would be reasonable and is truly in the child‘s best interest. [Ideally they also explain all of this to the parents as well and it is a consensus opinion.] This is “off-label” prescribing, however, it isn’t necessarily wrong if approached by a knowledgeable physician in a conscientious fashion with a plan for good followup and monitoring for efficacy and side effects.

**Additionally all SSRIs carry a black box warning label in patients under 18 and for first prescriptions in patients up to age 24 due to the potential to increase suicidality [My psychiatrist FIL’s sense --which I don’t dispute-- is that if you have clinical depression in a pediatric patient then it makes more sense to prescribe and monitor closely and carefully than avoid prescribing. If you look at suicide statistics (especially in adolescent males) in 2004 and beyond they provide some soft (ie correlation data) support for his contention. Additionally, I think (or hope) most physicians understand that often suicide risk often does increase as depression scores abate slightly and this certainly could explain this effect.] Now, if you are using SSRIs for another indication, then the risk benefit analysis may shake out a little differently than with major depression. Of course other medical problems, and medications that the child is on are relevant to this discussion as well.

I hope I haven’t crossed the line with this post but I feel like clearing up misconceptions is helpful and that is my sole intent with this post. All medical advice should come from a physician who has actually examined the patient.

 

[LMV]

Do you think her teachers at school might have some ideas? Maybe it is something about the routine and expectations of school that help your daughter manage her anxiety there. I think that is a very good sign and changes my perception of the issue somewhat. Perhaps you could talk to your daughter about how she is able to manage the school day and see what her insight is, and apply some of that to the summer? Again to me what would stand out is that in the summer these issues can be magnified because of the absence of a routine. For a child who has trouble transitioning, predicting, and letting go of "what ifs", not having a routine or predictable structure can be very difficult. It's a fine line because you don't want to encourage rigidity, but you also want to load the environment for success.

This is good advice. Additionally, to some degree with cognitive maturity comes better set shifting and reframing ability. This is variable, however, like so much of child development.

 

[vagymmomma]

Lots of good comments here, but there are so many variables even for those with children/close relatives diagnosed with anxiety disorders. Just remember the great quote from Eleanor Roosevelt -- "Do what you feel in your heart to be right- for you'll be criticized anyway... ." Good luck.

 

[Pixiechikn]

What worked for us, for what it's worth...

So sorry you and your daughter having to face GAD, that's not easy.

My DD starting having anxiety issues last year at age 5. Everything triggered a worry, which led to tears...you know the scene. Her school counselor sent home a great book for us to use. I wish I remembered the name! Sorry. The crux was go through certain exercises to deal with her anxiety. We drew pictures of what made her worry, we talked (on purpose, very briefly) about what she imagined would happen and how that wasn't realistic, and we did relaxation exercises. Then finally we trained her to imagine putting her worries in a box.

Apparently at that age, talking about the worries can make them worse. I don't know if its the same at 7.

So, it went something like this...DD had an episode, we'd start by deep breathing at least 3 times, she'd explain what was what she was afraid of, we'd say "that's silly" (recommended language from her counselor), then we'd help her put the worry in the imaginary box. It took a few months, but she's much better now. When she starts to get worked up, she automatically starts deep breathing now. It usually doesn't go much further.

Based on the other feedback, this seems very simplistic, but it worked for us, and sometimes it's helpful to have a coping mechanism until you determine if other therapies are necessary.

Let us know how she does!

 

[lilgymmie7]

Yes, most definitely, the anxiety could be related to some other kind of sensory issue for sure. More reason for a more comprehensive neuro. psych. evaluation!!!

If she is very young, you are right to proceed w/caution re: any type of medication. I do have to say, however, that some of my kids as young as 4th grade have been put on meds. for OCD and/or anxieity with very satisfactory results. I've had a little guy this past year who was so severely anxious he couldn't even sleep at night. His behavior was just outrageous at school as a result of his lack of sleep combined with his anxiety about school work. (without going into too much detail, hs suffered repeated lack of oxygen as an infant and has some pretty severe intellectual disabilities... but socially he is fine, a little immature, but fully aware of things going on around him!) Anyway, his team of doctors prescribed a round of anti-anxiety meds this past spring. It seemed to really allow him to hold things together a bit better.... we'll see how next year goes!!

My DS is now 13, but at the age of seven he was diagnosed with anxiety; social, separation, and then general. It was at seven that his psychiatrist from Children's Memorial also prescribed Zoloft. He started out at 25 and gradually moved up to 100mg. This last year he went back down to 25mg. His pysychiatrist hopes to ween him off of the med. But since last year he has also been diagnosed with ADHD combined and currently takes 45 from 54 mg of Concerta.
I have to say that as his Mom I have seen a huge change in my son while on his medicine. It took me a mo. to cope with the fact that he had to take the med. but it did do a world of good. He made himself sick just thinking about going to school or being away from my husband and I. He hated his daily routine being intersected in any way. After the med. I saw him gradually mellow out and not get so anxious about having to go to school, etc. He does have bouts of feeling inadequate as a wrestler, but I am better able to bring him back down just by talking to him and assuring him that he IS good at what he does. He may always feel this way, but I know with patience, the help from his team of doctors, and quite possibly meds, he will lead a very normal life.

I have to add that when he was 9 I pulled him from wrestling because I couldn't stand to hear him get so down on himself about his performance on the mat. I thought that as his Mom it was my responsibility to keep him away from such turmoil and shelter him from any feelings of inadequacies. I came to find out through talking over the issue with his doctor that I had made a big mistake. My son's heart is in his wrestling. He eats, sleeps, breathes wrestling just like most gymmies. I was letting him down by pulling him, plus I wasn't helping him cope with his feelings while in the sport. Sport is a way to help our children learn how the world 'works'. When I pulled him, I simply taught him to run from his problems. I don't have this all figured out yet, and he has been dealing with this for 6 years now. Every day, is learning for me. Every day, I brace myself for anything. Most days are uneventful, but then again it is the summer. School is where his anxiety wells up. I find some teachers and administrators are ill equipped to deal with children with special needs that are NOT so visual like anxiety. If he was in a wheel chair it might make them 'wake-up' a bit.

I agree with many of the posters that stated perhaps a visit to a pychiatrist is much needed. I have found a wealth of information from Children's Memorial Hosp. as a whole. One last thing, seriously...try NOT to show your DD how anxious you are about her anxiety. My son is ultra-sensitive and can READ me like a book. He seems to know when I am mad, sad, happy, etc. These are times that may trigger his anxiety. Especially if he thinks he is at the root of my feelings. Also...sorry...never use his anxiety as an excuse. My son would tell his teachers, " Yes, but I have anxiety..." We had to stop that right away. Again, I called his doctor. She has always called me back and filled me with more strategies on how to better help my son. We are lucky. Now all I need is to get him through the eighth grade....Crossing my fingers!

 

[mayestra12]

Thanks for much for sharing your stories and strategies. I really need to hear them as I've been feeling so lost over all of this. I'm a teacher so I have the added benefit of being home and being able to help dd as needed.

A few answers

#1 I only read about the no meds under 12 in my anxiety books. I'm not an expect and we actually got a list of psychiatrists today from our insurance company. I'm only hesitant because I think dd would think her problem was more serious if she had to go to a new doctor. I've also thought about the pediatrician first to rule out any health problems as the books suggest that line of defense first. She just went for her yearly visit in May but I didn't mention any of the anxiety issues.

#2 Dd certainly takes her anxiety to school with her but keeps things in control for her peers and teachers. She's the kid who does poorly on something because the kid next to her finished quickly and she's still working. She worries about the fact that she's still working. She worries a lot over playground drama. Sally won't like me because I didn't want to play with her today etc.... I didn't mention her anxiety until Feb. to her teacher and she was shocked by the news since dd is so well liked and out-going. She takes out her worries on dear old mom and dad when she gets home and it's usually with bad / uncooperative behavior. The days she says she doesn't want to go have us putting her on the bus in tears but we get her on because going back the next day will be so much harder if we don't.

#3 In gymnastics she needs to learn to cope. She will hate me if I take her out. I know that. She is really built for this sport and could be so good one day if she can learn to manage her worries. Not that being good one day matters...I simply want her to enjoy it and want to do it. A year from now she could be a completely different kid.


Yesterday was the straw that broke the camel's back. Just to give you an idea of what things are like in our house. It was a bad day. Dd didn't go to team practice and dh and I were at a loss as to how to handle it. We called her doctor. She had an appointment open so we took the kids to dinner and then went to the appointment. I put ds to bed and dh was with dd before her bedtime. He asked her to feed the cats and she refused. Dh started to get angry because once again she was refusing to help with a a simple chore. He says, to her, "It's a simple chore, I know you can do it." Her response, (with attitude) "If it's so simple, why don't you do it yourself." Well that was enough for him to hear to lose his temper and the rest of the night was not fun.

Fast forward to tonight and a much calmer mom I say to her, "we're you afraid to feed the cats last night because you might do it wrong?" She said yes. She was afraid she would feed them too much and they would get sick. I asked her to help me do it tonight and she was fine. She then explained to dh why she said what she said. Heartbreaking. Sigh.


Oh, doctor did confirm last night after her session that she does really want to do gymnastics. Also, she made a worry box with her doctor. She used it in her office for a bit and then the doc sent it home. They have worked on breathing too. Sorry for any typos...too tired to proof read.

 

[kasmom]

We have an 8 year old girl at our gym with similar issues. She is better if her mom comes in and sits with her through practice. Her mom just sits over in the corner and does paperwork while she's doing her thing. She has a major problem with panic attacks if her mother is not there, but manages quite nicely as long as she can see her mom. It is always worse at the beginning of a new season when she is learning new skills, but gets better by the end of the season. Usually by the end of the season, her mom no longer has to stay. None of the other parents are allowed in the gym, but an exception is made her case. No one has a problem with it.

 

[mumoftwogymnasts]

Thanks everyone. I'm so angry / upset / frustrated over this and I don't know what to do with her. I'm sure I'm doing everything wrong even though I try to stay calm and patient.

{{{{ Hugs}}}} for you.

I have a daughter with some anxiety issues and it is hard. Hard for her and also hard for the people who love her and have to live with her.

Her response to a situation at school, gym, out of the house in which she cannot control her anxiety tends to be to withdraw, appear shy and timid and then tears.
Her response at home however is anger, with lots of attitude, noise, foot stomping and then finally when it has all played out tears.

The anger is hard to deal with. I find it hard to stay calm and in control. Some days I do better than others, but sadly some days when I am tired/frustrated/overwhelmed my response to the situation is far from calm and patient. Sometimes I feel like her default setting is to just be angry with us and it is hard in the heat of the moment to not be frustrated with the behaviour.

I don't really have any answers as to what will help your daughter. I don't think there is ever a "one size fits all" solution to these situations. I just really wanted to say to you, to hang in there. I'm sure you are not doing everything wrong, even though it sometimes feels like you are. I am sure you are doing your absolute best that you can for your daughter. Your love for her shines through in your posts.

 

[my4buffaloes]

My oldest has GAD as well and we were in the same boat with him with scouting. He is terrified of staying overnight away from us. We thought boy scouts would help him get over that because they go camping every month. The opposite happened. Suddenly he was constantly faced (in his mind) with having to spend the night somewhere else and it consumed his life. After a year and a half we had to face the reality that what we thought was going to help him was actually making it worse and we pulled him from scouts.

As for your dd, I am not sure what she is scared of exactly - a certain skill, just being there, etc. But maybe when she is having a rough day she could go to gym, but only do the skills she is comfortable with. It sounds like the coaches know what is going on, so they would likely understand. You can meet with them in advance and have a game plan in place for the bad days. Then on the bad days you can walk in with her and speak to the coaches. If she is like my son, she won't have the melt down in front of people other than family, so being there will help (force) her to get control of herself. While she still might not do what she is scared of she would be gaining the ability to control herself (hopefully) and maybe, just maybe once she is there and doing the basics, she will realize that whatever she is scared of isn't so bad and she will do it anyway. Good luck! It is so hard to find a balance when dealing with this.

 

[mayestra12]

My dd has no problem melting down in front of her friends. However, she then worries that they are all making fun of her. It's a vicious cycle and why I decided not to walk her into gym anymore. Usually she's in tears as we pull in the parking lot and NOTHING I say or do matters. If I offer to walk her in she will still continue the meltdown. She knows she can go right into to gym and go in the pit and jump on the trampoline or even stand by her coach while he finishes up with the higher level girls (her dream) but it never works when she is already in tears. I've have no idea what the change this week.

I sat at the gym during her practices from December to mid-February because that's what she needed. She was ready to be dropped off after that and did so perfectly from mid-February until mid May. The tears started up in May. I thought is was an adjustment to my husband working from home as her routine was off but it lasted until school got out. We even gave her a week off between school and the beginning of summer practice.

I'm wondering if I can find her a place to do non-competitive gymnastics this year where she can work on her L4/L5 skills. I guess that's not possible in a rec class that only meets once a week. Maybe that would be best and she can try out for team again next year at L4 or L5. She will refuse to go to rec at her gym.

I'm going to call the pediatrician on Monday and see what they think about checking her out and get their opinion on a consult with a psychiatrist.

 

[jcs]

I'm wondering if I can find her a place to do non-competitive gymnastics this year where she can work on her L4/L5 skills. I guess that's not possible in a rec class that only meets once a week. Maybe that would be best and she can try out for team again next year at L4 or L5. She will refuse to go to rec at her gym.

I'm going to call the pediatrician on Monday and see what they think about checking her out and get their opinion on a consult with a psychiatrist.

I know our gym offers rec either once or twice a week and the intermediate class is 1.5 hrs, advanced is 2 hrs per class so definitely look around for options.... I also think it is a great idea to talk to the pediatrician and a psychiatrist. While medication might not be possible for the anxiety right now, perhaps there is something else going on as well that could be treated...or at least she is under going medical treatment and they will know when the right time is to prescribe meds if necessary.

Good luck to you.

 

[SkiBumGymMom]

I'm so sorry that you and your DD are going through this. I work with quite a few kiddos with various anxiety problems (from GAD to PTSD and everything in between). Guess it comes with being a special education teacher and now special ed coordinator for our district (it's a small district). This also includes my youngest DD, though she's not a gymnast. Obviously I've never met your DD so I won't make specific recommendations outside getting her pediatrician and perhaps a psychiatrist that specializes in children involved for the long haul. But if you want you can PM me and we can talk about various kids I've worked with.

I also do believe gymnastics (or any sport) can be therapeutic. I enrolled my oldest DD in gym because of a "disability"-her Deafness, and not only did it work, she blossomed. My youngest DD has had the same experience with dance and she has had pretty severe issues with anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc. She has also been on medication since she was in elementary school. That was about 10 years ago and I know a lot has changed, but there was a noticeable different. But I still can't imagine where either would be without gym and dance. Though every child is different, that has been my experience.

Best of luck! Sending good thoughts your way.

 

[mayestra12]

Thanks. That's one the reasons I"m fighting to keep her in gym. She SO needs the activity. She actually thrives on it.

She is at camp today and I asked her in the car if it would be easier to go to team practice if she was at camp in the morning. She can go to camp from 9:00-12:30 and stay for team from 1:00-4:00. So we'll give it a try. For some reason she has an issue with Thursdays but Tuesday practice isn't a problem. Perhaps the practice is a bit tougher on Thursday and she stresses more over it? I don't know.

Even though we have been dealing with the anxiety for awhile now I'm just beginning to see how much dd worries. This morning when talking about practice she started saying how she is worrying about her teeth. She had a deep cavity back in April and the dentist warned it may need to be pulled in the future if she has more problems with it. She also has a loose tooth that she is sure will fall out in the gym and get lost in the pit. All of this affects her all the time! It's so hard not to be able to calm your child's fears and heartbreaking at the same time that she can't let go of simple things.

I guess I'm confused about how to get a psychiatrist to evaluate her. Do I ask her psychologist if she thinks she needs to see one or what? If I contact one will that go against what she is doing with her current doctor? I don't want to be sneaky or anything. I also don't want dd to feel more anxious by having to go to another doctor.

 

[bluesocks]

I would ask her psychologist for a recommendation for a psychiatrist. They often work together. In my experience, psychiatrists are mostly there to prescribe and monitor meds, so you would still work with the psychologist for learning techniques to work with your DD. Does that make sense?

 

[mayestra12]

Yes. In fact dd goes to a large counseling center so I'm sure there are psychiatrists there. She goes on Thursday to the psychologist so hopefully I can speak with her then.