TOPS National Camp and Developmental Camps

[Muddlethru]

Does anyone have any knowledge/experience, personal or otherwise, on the significant benefits of going to the TOPS camp and the developmental camps? Making it to national testing and eventually the TOPS camp gives recognition to the gymnast and the gym; the gymnasts gets to see their picture in USA Gymnastics Magazine, you get to meet some olympic greats, and train with them, etc. And correct me if I am wrong, the goal of the TOPS program, pre-elite and/or Hopes ar for those gymnasts who aspire to be elite one day. But with the elite route aside, can a gymnast truly benefit from going to these camps? There is the TOPS camp and two developmental camps that are three days long. Will attending any and/or all of these three camps make a gymnast a better gymnast? The Developmental camps can be pricey, put in airfare on top of the price of the camp for both the gymnast and the coach. Does anyone know what goes on in these camps? Does it have a significant benefit on their skill development, strength or future gymnastics career either as an elite gymnast or a JO gymnast?

It would makes sense that the "BIG" established gyms don't even participate in TOPS, etc. because they have great coaches in their staff. But how about the small mom and pop gyms? If a gymnast qualifies and makes it to the TOPS national team and is able to attend the developmental camps, would this be something to consider and/or do?--coaches, judges, parents, gymnasts, anyone?

My DD had an opportunity last year to attend the developmental camps but we did not. Just wondering if she missed anything. She is from one of those mom and pop gyms--not a bad gym by any means. We have pretty good coaches. They've probably reached L10. They love the sport and are very passionate about it and are willing to take their gymnasts as far as they can take them. Unfortunately, in this day and age, our equipment and our coaching has its limitations. Would these camps help in training a gymnast to reach whatever her goals are? We are not looking too far into the future. I have too many kids to consider. Just want to get her the best training and experience we can get her. We could have paid for the camps. I just want to know if it is worth our money.

 

[gym law mom]

The real benefit is to the coaches. The TOPS testing and develomental camps really help coaches learn new ways to teach a skill, different condtioning etc. National testing is simply that--testing--no real training for the gymnast. I'm not aware of the kids training with any O level gymasts especially this year since 2012 is just around the corner. The girls on the national team usually come right before/after and train on their own.

I think it comes down to how interested your coaches are in going to at least 1 camp to just see what is going on with the national program and maybe coming back with some new ideas that will help your dd and the whole team program.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

The real benefit is to the coaches. The TOPS testing and develomental camps really help coaches learn new ways to teach a skill, different condtioning etc. National testing is simply that--testing--no real training for the gymnast.

For Sure!!!

Also... the whole TOPs program is a huge money making deal for any gym participating in the program! I know of a few gyms in my area who promise "TOPs training." One of them is a complete joke, yet the parents buy into it like crazy!! My DD's old gym charges $100/month for the extra training and it is NOT anywhere near the strength/flexbility training that the program requires, yet most parents do not know what the program requires and shell out the money as if it's a guarantee their child will go to the Olympics.

Another very well known, high quality gym in the area had said a few years ago when my DD began gymnastics, that they would NEVER do TOPs, that their training already encompasses the strength/flexbility that a high level gymnast requires (and it really does), yet guess what? They now do TOPs as well.... Why? Because the parents hear about it, ask for it and most important, are willing to pay for it!

 

[Muddlethru]

I have heard that the TOPS program does help the coaches. But I also believe it is there for the athletes as well. The USAG website indicates that it is more for the gymnast than just the coaches. In addition, we had a girl that swears up and down it was attending the developmental camps that got her the training to make junior international elite. Since she is now older and has to qualify for senior elite, she has had trouble. She has been trying to requalify for 4 years now. She has not been invited or has had the opportunity to attend any developmental camps. I've heard both it is more for the coaches as well as heard from actual gymnasts who participated and have indicated they did benefit. Any coaches care to address this issue or gymnasts who have actually participated?

 

[gym law mom]

I'm not saying the gymnast doesn't get anything out of the camp---sure they do. Just remember its only 3 days so there is a limit on what can be learned in that time. Since you said you're from a small gym it would probably be beneficial for your dd and a coach to go if you can afford it.

 

[bookworm]

My daughter did elite a few years back and was on the TOPS team, attended TOPS camps, attended developmental camps...you get the picture ...and she has done well, especially after she decided she didn't want to do elite anymore (but that's another story!) but was it BECAUSE of TOPS and these camps? I don't think so because her talent level was there with or without these camps. That said, I do think that TOPS training did help with certain strength and conditioning skills that she has carried with her to this day. The biggest asset she had was a tremendous coach that was a detail freak but made her the clean, polished gymnast that she is today so would I do TOPS and the developmental camps again knowing what I know now? I guess it would depend on what I knew about the coaches and their potential to maximize her skills.

I don't think that the camps would be a detriment by any means but as you mentioned , they are hugely expensive ...I remember thinking every time she went to Houston, I was out 1500 bucks! And as another poster mentioned, TOPS has turned into a money maker for gyms and USAG as there really are very few gymnasts who should actually be testing but test and train anyway...

 

[Mack_the_Ripper]

My teammate (age 9, level 9) benefited a lot from the comraderie, I think. She is the youngest optional by quite a bit and doesn't get much interaction with kids her age, but she got to meet girls her age who were just as talented or even more than she is. She's so used to being The Best all the time that I think it was good for her to be around peers.

 

[Muddlethru]

My daughter did elite a few years back and was on the TOPS team, attended TOPS camps, attended developmental camps...you get the picture ...and she has done well, especially after she decided she didn't want to do elite anymore (but that's another story!) but was it BECAUSE of TOPS and these camps? I don't think so because her talent level was there with or without these camps. That said, I do think that TOPS training did help with certain strength and conditioning skills that she has carried with her to this day. The biggest asset she had was a tremendous coach that was a detail freak but made her the clean, polished gymnast that she is today so would I do TOPS and the developmental camps again knowing what I know now? I guess it would depend on what I knew about the coaches and their potential to maximize her skills. I don't think that the camps would be a detriment by any means but as you mentioned , they are hugely expensive ...I remember thinking every time she went to Houston, I was out 1500 bucks! And as another poster mentioned, TOPS has turned into a money maker for gyms and USAG as there really are very few gymnasts who should actually be testing but test and train anyway...

Bookworm, thanks for your post. You are fortunate that you have a nationally recognized and qualified coach. Putting your coaches abilities aside and if you just had to focus solely on these camps, do you think attending one or all three of these 3-day camps was invaluable in any way to your DD? What would you say are the biggest benefits, if any?

 

[iluvgym]

I've had the opportunity to be involved in all of the above. I'm sorry to hear that gyms use the excuse of tops training to make so much extra money. If they are charging those fees but getting something out of it, that is great, but I hope they don't have year after year of nobody qualifying and they STILL charge that extra $100 per month. As far as being a moneymaker for usag, I don't see how that would be possible with only charging $40 per test. Then they have to pay the tops director, testers and host gym. They do have some leftover, and that is probably what's used to pay for the first camp that is funded by usag.

I think for a gymnast, gym and family to make the commitment for the gymnast to attend one camp, it will be good for motivation and a jump start, but I think the real benefit comes from the idea of attending a few camps. You go to your first one, you get all these second opinions on what to fix and how, then you go back and get more feedback and things to work on for the next camp, etc etc. For sure this would require a big commitment to a future in big gymnastics but it really will help. TOPS aside, it's going to camps every other month that has made the good gymnasts even at the big name gyms into even greater gymnasts.

It's largely due to these camps that less gymnasts seem to leave home to train these days as opposed to 15 years ago. I say if money isn't a huge issue, let your daughter give it a go and make the commitment for say a year and then reevaluate if it was worth it for her.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

I

f they are charging those fees but getting something out of it, that is great, but I hope they don't have year after year of nobody qualifying and they STILL charge that extra $100 per month.

The one gym has never had anyone qualify in testing. The owners keep 'em coming back by a lot of false promises. The other gym (who had said that would NEVER do TOPs) just completed their first time testing.

 

[Muddlethru]

I've had the opportunity to be involved in all of the above. I'm sorry to hear that gyms use the excuse of tops training to make so much extra money. If they are charging those fees but getting something out of it, that is great, but I hope they don't have year after year of nobody qualifying and they STILL charge that extra $100 per month. As far as being a moneymaker for usag, I don't see how that would be possible with only charging $40 per test. Then they have to pay the tops director, testers and host gym. They do have some leftover, and that is probably what's used to pay for the first camp that is funded by usag.

I think for a gymnast, gym and family to make the commitment for the gymnast to attend one camp, it will be good for motivation and a jump start, but I think the real benefit comes from the idea of attending a few camps. You go to your first one, you get all these second opinions on what to fix and how, then you go back and get more feedback and things to work on for the next camp, etc etc. For sure this would require a big commitment to a future in big gymnastics but it really will help. TOPS aside, it's going to camps every other month that has made the good gymnasts even at the big name gyms into even greater gymnasts.

It's largely due to these camps that less gymnasts seem to leave home to train these days as opposed to 15 years ago. I say if money isn't a huge issue, let your daughter give it a go and make the commitment for say a year and then reevaluate if it was worth it for her.

Thanks Iluvgym for the information. It was very helpful. There are so many conflicting opinions on the TOPS program, it is hard to decipher which one is the most accurate. First and foremost, it has to be clear that individual gyms implement and may have their own TOPS program completely separate and different from the USAG sponsored TOPS program. Just because the word TOPS is tacked onto a program, does not make it the same. I believe maybe some individual gyms, who charge extra to train TOPS, can be held accountable for the bad rap the TOPS program is getting. They are the ones making extra money using the TOPS name. Not a penny of what private gyms make under their individual TOPS program goes to the USAG sanctioned TOPS program. As a side note, shouldn't our monthly tuition cover all necessary training?

As far as the USAG sponsored TOPS program, all the expenses of the gymnast (and her coach) that make the A team is paid for by the USAG, hardly a money maker. The B team and the developmental camps are paid for by the gymnast. It is not cheap but I also do not think it is a money maker. Our gym does not charge to train TOPS. And we do test TOPS and maybe 1 makes it to national testing and once in a while one makes it to the TOPS national team. So, TOPS does not leave a sour taste in my mouth. I just wanted to know if the program may be a good fit and will benefit my child. As Iluvgym suggested, if the opportunity arises again this year, we just may give it a shot. I'll have to see what happens.

 

[gasrgoose]

Great comments! Does your gym let anyone willing to pay participate in TOPS? At our gym it is by invite only and they have kicked a couple of girls out because the committment wasn't there or they simply weren't making any progress and had no realistic chance of ever qualifying. Of course not everyone can qualify so just because you don't qualify doesn't mean you aren't benefitting from the training. I hope my daughter will qualify next year and she has a chance but she's going to have work hard since she's new.

 

[Muddlethru]

Good luck to your DD gasrgoose. And I agree with you 100%. I think everyone should be given the opportunity to train TOPS if it is offered at their gym. Our gym is also by invite. However, our HC is less exclusive. Last year, one of my DDs friends went up to the HC and asked her to include her daughter even if she did not have a chance. This gymnast could barely do any of the tests but our HC included her. I don't think anyone has offered to pay to be included. And even so, I don't think our HC would have accepted it. She may accept payment if it is for a private to train for TOPS. But not to train with a group. I don't think?

There are many kids that test on the regional level that have very little chance of making it. I don't mind this the least. Our gym has the girls go to two testings and our HC beleives that even the great majority will not make it, they benefit by seeing their progress over the summer and just by the experience. The same gymmie mentioned above participated again this year and did so much better. She could barely climb the rope last year even with using her legs. This year, she climbed it in about 16 seconds. Her scores may not still be good enough to make the national testing, but I am sure the training helped her. She is 10 and did however clock 28 hours every week this summer. But that is another story. I don't know if her mom pushed her a bit, or it was on her own volition. I know it did not come from the coaches.

Again, I wish your DD the best and hope she has fun with the experience.

 

[bookworm]

My teammate (age 9, level 9) benefited a lot from the comraderie, I think. She is the youngest optional by quite a bit and doesn't get much interaction with kids her age, but she got to meet girls her age who were just as talented or even more than she is. She's so used to being The Best all the time that I think it was good for her to be around peers.

[QUOTsayE=4theloveofsports;167956]Bookworm, thanks for your post. You are fortunate that you have a nationally recognized and qualified coach. Putting your coaches abilities aside and if you just had to focus solely on these camps, do you think attending one or all three of these 3-day camps was invaluable in any way to your DD? What would you are the biggest benefits, if any?

I wouldn't say that any of these camps were "invaluable" to her gymnastics career but what she did get out of it was much like what Mack the Ripper cited, camaraderie with girls her age (she was always the youngest upper level optional) and skill level, and I thought that was good, especially as she got a little older. Being the top dog at a young age can be a lonely journey but fortunately she had a lot of good friends in the gym (that usually weren't her level) that made it better. I think if you have the means, I would give her the opportunity to go to the camp at least once, but if you don't have the means, don't beat yourself up about it either.

And as far as TOPS goes, that was a positive experience for us but my daughter did well and made the team but i think if I were in a gym that just kept testing my kid and she wasn't making any progress and no one in that gym was even making National testing, I might not feel as positive about the experience. I really think gyms should do mock tests to see if it is worth the money to even test some of these kids ...it might be only 40 bucks a test (X 2 or 3) but you like to spend your money wisely...

 

[busymomof4]

I agree with Bookworm.. My dd made the TOPS A team last year and has been to both TOPS camps this year. I don't know that she learned any major skills while she was there, but she got to work with some of the best coaches around the country and the TOPS staff. They know her now and I believe that will help her in the future as she continues to take the elite path. DD's coach also learns new/better ways to coach and dd has gotten to meet other girls her age from across the country. Some of them she still keeps in contact with. I think going at least once is a great opportunity for any gymnast. TOPS training has definitely helped my dd progress and become more strong and flexible even if she never made it to national testing.

 

[Muddlethru]

Thank you bookworm and busymomof4. I appreciate you sharing your experiences. I guess in the back of my mind I believed it would be a great experience for her and as busymomof4 indicated may also help her gymnastically since we come from a small gym. I just needed confirmation. I hope she gets that opportunity again this year.