Parents What to do coach wants child at gym at 2 and school doesn't end till 2:37

[GymmieC]

Why would she not be able to go back to school?

If a child is bright, they'll keep up generally, and putting exams on hold for a year or two won't affect an eventual academic career. If they're not academic, then maybe they'd have a better career in sport anyway?

We are not "sacrificing her education". She is still being educated. To get good grades here you have to be pretty much 100% focussed on school, many schools recommend 2-3 hours homework a night from 8th grade. I would rather she concentrated on sport, then school, than try to do both less well.

All I am saying is that an athlete, any athlete, needs to be well rounded. Most elites are very academically sound. They have learned to manage time wisely. They go onto college and very rewarding careers. That is what I mean by being well rounded. The focus should be on meshing the two, gym and school, so that the child is a winning package regardless.

 

[Faith]

I agree. I was just saying I don't necessarily agree with education first, to the extent of passing up other life opportunities.

However, it may be different in the UK vs. U.S., but many elite athletes will need to put one or the other on hold, unless they can afford personal tutors or private schools. Some will spread exams over several years, delay by a year, take a year early. It's no bad thing if they take their exams a year after their peers.

 

[profmom]

How many of you have actually taught college-level individuals who really sacrificed school for sport? About all I can say is that thank goodness MOST gymnasts don't neglect education to the extent that athletes in some other sports do.

If there's anything sadder in education than trying to teach a 20 year old how to write at a third grade level because the skills have never been taught or have completely atrophied, I don't want to know what it is. Thinking now about my one guy, who had the best work ethic in the world and rewrote his paper five times for me, meeting with me each time to go over the draft and discuss my comments, and how delighted he was when he finally managed to get it over the C- bar. I loved working with that kid because he really wanted to succeed and knew from sports that success demands sacrifice, but I have to say that his parents, his coaches, and his school, whatever it was, all failed him big time. I think gym is somewhat different, but I would not agree that most elite child athletes nowadays, taken as a whole, are ready to succeed in college and that huge span of life that comes afterward.

I worry quite a lot that now, with all of the avenues available to achieve educational standards outside of normal schooling and the American mania for overinvestment in sports, the problem is quickly growing into a crisis that will rock higher education in the very near future. I can't say it loudly and frequently enough: if you are going to go online, do your research and pick a program that is rigorous, synchronous, and not designed simply to achieve elementary or secondary educational credentials for the record books.

There is no cheating, skimping, or skipping on foundational educational skills, any more than in foundational gymnastics skills. If your kid can't read, write, calculate, and think critically and lacks basic knowledge about the world but you expect her/him to succeed in college, you're setting her/him up for a failure equivalent to what one would expect from trying to get a double back out of a kid who can't do a BHS.

Don't let my former student be your kid. Just don't.

 

[GymmieC]

How many of you have actually taught college-level individuals who really sacrificed school for sport? About all I can say is that thank goodness MOST gymnasts don't neglect education to the extent that athletes in some other sports do.

If there's anything sadder in education than trying to teach a 20 year old how to write at a third grade level because the skills have never been taught or have completely atrophied, I don't want to know what it is. Thinking now about my one guy, who had the best work ethic in the world and rewrote his paper five times for me, meeting with me each time to go over the draft and discuss my comments, and how delighted he was when he finally managed to get it over the C- bar. I loved working with that kid because he really wanted to succeed and knew from sports that success demands sacrifice, but I have to say that his parents, his coaches, and his school, whatever it was, all failed him big time. I think gym is somewhat different, but I would not agree that most elite child athletes nowadays, taken as a whole, are ready to succeed in college and that huge span of life that comes afterward.

I worry quite a lot that now, with all of the avenues available to achieve educational standards outside of normal schooling and the American mania for overinvestment in sports, the problem is quickly growing into a crisis that will rock higher education in the very near future. I can't say it loudly and frequently enough: if you are going to go online, do your research and pick a program that is rigorous, synchronous, and not designed simply to achieve elementary or secondary educational credentials for the record books.

There is no cheating, skimping, or skipping on foundational educational skills, any more than in foundational gymnastics skills. If your kid can't read, write, calculate, and think critically and lacks basic knowledge about the world but you expect her/him to succeed in college, you're setting her/him up for a failure equivalent to what one would expect from trying to get a double back out of a kid who can't do a BHS.

Don't let my former student be your kid. Just don't.

Wow! Very well said. I guess I was being hopeful when I said most, but maybe just trying to not be confrontational.
You said what I mean very well. Thank you. I hope that Faith reevaluates what is happening with her child. Yes, she was right. I have zero idea about what happens in the UK. But I'd imagine having a good education is a must Anywhere.
Focusing on gym before academics is a recipe for disaster.
Your child will tell you so in time. Again, deciding on how academics and sport mesh together is far, far better than putting gym above academics.

 

[gymdog]

OP must be leaving something out. Usually Elite or Homeschool groups start at 1 or 2pm and finish at 5 or 6.
Then the lower levels like the L1,2,3s since they get out earlier and typically don't stay out late.........then the middle and high schoolers practice late.
In my area most of the gyms with elite paths start either homeschool at 9am or at 1pm....

So I think OP is leaving some details of how she got in the 2pm group to start with.....is there a later group your DD can get into? Especially at L8?

I KNOW I'm going to sacrifice PE if possible.....like I've said before, I don't need my kid to learn how to to sit-ups, or sit and reaches......but I drew the line at cup stacking!...... Sorry school, DD needs to rest up and do homework before her 4 hour practice.

I don't know. There are a lot of "half day" program models where the kids go to school but get early release and then practice around 2:00 (although it's usually more like a five or six hour practice when I've seen that). So I'm guessing the kids at the other schools just get early release.

Usually full homeschool programs start in the morning and a lot of them do a split practice where they practice like 8-11, then school 11-2, then practice again 2-5. Or just 8-12 if they're younger compulsories or something.

 

[Faith]

I hope that Faith reevaluates what is happening with her child.

Believe it or not, I have not gone into this blindly, and everything has already been evaluated

I think we may be at US/UK cross purposes. Do you think I am pulling her from school completely? Profmoms post is entirely out of my frame of reference, in a developed country there should be no way a child does not get an education at all.

DD is in full time school. She will stay in full time school. I will work with the school to allow her time off when necessary. They are extremely supportive. It has been suggested by her sport that she home schools to allow more training time. I said no as I don't believe homeschooling purely for sport is the right thing to do at her age (and her coach agreed). She is getting an education alongside her sport, but one day she may need to put one on hold to be successful at the other. If she chooses to put school on hold while she follows her dreams, that's fine. I will support her as school will be there to come back to. I don't agree with the attitude that dreams are too much of a gamble, and you should focus on academics instead.

I think the opportunities education offers will always be there. Sport, not so much. Many people these days have great careers in sport, academics don't always lead to great careers.

 

[munchkin3]

No offense, but this was not about school OR gymnastics......OP has said her L8 DD needs to be at practice at 2 and DD finishes school at 2:30..... Either mom knowingly overextended herself and DD ability to attend that class in the hopes of the coach making a special accommodation, (like arriving 30 min. Late) or school allowing her to leave early.......it sounds like this is NOT the group geared towards school and gym......perhaps this is the fast track group, where gymnastics is given priority.
Perhaps, the regular group that starts at 4 or 5 is 'less desirable' because it is viewed as slower progressing, non-elite.......I could be completely off, I'm just guessing at why she would be in is predicament to begin with....over committing is problematic for everyone!

At our gym, we have homeschool, we have fast track, we have regular track....they are ALL good, some very intense, some a bit less intense, (but all max out at 24hrs to 30hrs a week....it's still very intense!) if you want the 2:30 intense group, then you commit to that....period.....if you can't make it , then you come at 4.....period.....set your priorities...
Some parents really really really want to say their kid is in a special group, like the TOPS group, or the HOPES group etc.....all of this is no surprise, you go into it willingly......
If she really is in the situation where the only group for her DD starts at 2 pm for L8 training, then in fact she must decide if homeschool is needed cuz it won't get ANY better as time goes on, or switch gyms.

I hope your school can work with you to let her go a couple of days early......that's the best of both worlds, but the school has the say.

 

[mommyof1]

At our gym, we have homeschool, we have fast track, we have regular track....they are ALL good, some very intense, some a bit less intense, (but all max out at 24hrs to 30hrs a week....it's still very intense!) if you want the 2:30 intense group, then you commit to that....period.....if you can't make it , then you come at 4.....period.....set your priorities...
Some parents really really really want to say their kid is in a special group, like the TOPS group, or the HOPES group etc.....all of this is no surprise, you go into it willingly......
If she really is in the situation where the only group for her DD starts at 2 pm for L8 training, then in fact she must decide if homeschool is needed cuz it won't get ANY better as time goes on, or switch gyms.

Why should it be an either/or choice--fast track or school? Why not schedule the fast-track practices after school and then let the individual families decide whether they want to cut back on school time, particularly if the fast-track and standard groups are all practicing a similar number of hours, just at different levels of intensity?

 

[munchkin3]

Agree....that my point....it should not be either or.......you just need to know before hand, and try to manage.....figure out what's best for your family........both gyms and schools should be able to work together......in a perfect world.

 

[profmom]

And gyms' managers should recognize that some schools have very little flexibility, that it is a legitimate choice to want your child both to train intensively at a sport and have the full public school experience, and set up workout groups that allow them to do so!

Plenty of gyms manage to produce multiple scholarship athletes every year without rendering it impossible for their athletes to put in a regular school day. Obviously it is possible to do.

 

[GlobalNomad]

Have you asked parents of the other girls in her group what they are doing to make this work? Maybe they have found some sort of loophole that you can use with your school? For example, some school districts have a "physical education waiver for athletes." Athletes who train a certain number of hours can be exempted from PE. Then, these students arrange schedules to make PE their last class of the day. Your principal may just not be wanting to deal with this, hoping you will go away. I hope you find a solution. Good luck.

 

[gymyogimom]

Summer has been long but perhaps I am the only one who looks forward to when we get to the point when we have to homeschool? With our program we were told to expect that we will need homeschool to continue. They were upfront about it when we chose this route. We can always choose the less training route but there is only so much time... And space!

But in your case they may need to have some of the older kids go later so that younger kids at least start after 3 pm if school goes until after 2.

 

[gymjunkie]

Just curious, since you are okay with cyber-school (which would mean un-enrolling in her current school) why not just find another school in your area that allows early release?

 

[GymAuntie]

I know a lot of children sport and non sport who do cyber school and love it but I just worry about the social aspect

I'm not a parent, but we are exploring options now for my niece's education. She will begin kindergarten next year and homeschool is an option because of the distance to good private schools. The public schools in the town where my sister lives are political and below average so that's the only option we've (the village) ruled out.

What I've learned is that homeschooling is not like it was in my day (and maybe yours too). They have social programs for homeschool and even sports leagues and 4H and many other activities strictly for the homeschool crowd. Because of that, I think the social aspects are being covered well now. My sister's town even offers a hybrid school where they go to class 2 days a week and homeschool the rest.

None of this is to say I'm a big fan of homeschooling. I'm actually not so much. Still it is comforting to know that she could have a social life and still be homeschooled if that is what ends up needing to be done.

Now for the OP (sorry to drag your question off topic), I would put my foot down and say it can't be done. I feel it's unreasonable for a coach to insist on students being there earlier than school is dismissed. The gyms know what time schools in the area dismiss and should plan accordingly. IMO it is not up to the school to work with you. Gymnastics is an extra-curricular activity not sanctioned by the school. And who's to say that in that 15 or 30 minutes that she won't miss something important like the announcement of a test or other assignment. The only way I think you should even think about asking for cooperation is if the last period were her free period. My mother worked in education for years, and I really believe that if they started giving preferential treatment to your kid for gym than they would have 20 other parents (at least) wanting the same treatment for their kids and their non-sanctioned activities.

I'm not trying to be rude at all, but I think you should put yourself in the school's position and realize what a difficult position you're putting them in. Unless your kid was on track to potentially be the next Gabby Douglas, I'm surprised you'd even consider taking her out of school early on a regular basis. And if she were on track to the Olympics, then perhaps it's time to start considering homeschooling so she can tailor her schoolwork around her gym time. Bottom line is your state requires xxx amount of instructional hours per year. If you take her out for 30 minutes each week 2 times per week, then you are depriving her of say 50 hours of instruction time for gymnastics. Is that really the message you want to send her?

Bottom line, as many have already stated, is that education is something that will last a lifetime. Gymnastics won't whether she's Gabby Douglas or not. If your child's coach does not realize that, then perhaps he's not the right coach for her well being. If it were me, I'd be asking if this coach has some kind of preference towards homeschool kids and decide if such a preference meant I might be in the wrong place. I understand wanting the best gym for a potential athlete, but I don't understand sacrificing education time to have it. If anything I've said sounds harsh or attacking, I don't mean it to be I'm just offering up an insight from the school's perspective that maybe you haven't considered.

 

[GymAuntie]

I don't see this as the school not being cooperative. This is the coach not being cooperative. If this is NOT a homeschool group then it makes no logical sense to have practices starting at 2:00 as I have never heard of a school that gets out by 1:30 (assuming time is needed to get there). a 2:30ish end time to school is not crazy (our middle schools are like 4:30! Imagine what kind of problems that causes for any type of non school related after school activity!), I can understand why the school is not OK with redoing the entire class's schedule for one student. What grade is she in? I would say if middle school that it might be reasonable to ask to have PE the last period if possible and have her miss that; but much more than that is asking a bit much IMO.

Interesting that you talk about schools getting out so late. I just saw a news report here in California where parents were complaining that schools started too early! Apparently the early times are not allowing kids to get enough sleep. Guess no one will ever be happy. LOL

Here in Laguna the high school starts at either 7:20 or 7:30. Kids are released a bit after 2. In order to make this coach's demanded practice time, the kids would have to start school before 7. That's just insane.

 

[GymAuntie]

How many of you have actually taught college-level individuals who really sacrificed school for sport? About all I can say is that thank goodness MOST gymnasts don't neglect education to the extent that athletes in some other sports do.

If there's anything sadder in education than trying to teach a 20 year old how to write at a third grade level because the skills have never been taught or have completely atrophied, I don't want to know what it is. Thinking now about my one guy, who had the best work ethic in the world and rewrote his paper five times for me, meeting with me each time to go over the draft and discuss my comments, and how delighted he was when he finally managed to get it over the C- bar. I loved working with that kid because he really wanted to succeed and knew from sports that success demands sacrifice, but I have to say that his parents, his coaches, and his school, whatever it was, all failed him big time. I think gym is somewhat different, but I would not agree that most elite child athletes nowadays, taken as a whole, are ready to succeed in college and that huge span of life that comes afterward.

I worry quite a lot that now, with all of the avenues available to achieve educational standards outside of normal schooling and the American mania for overinvestment in sports, the problem is quickly growing into a crisis that will rock higher education in the very near future. I can't say it loudly and frequently enough: if you are going to go online, do your research and pick a program that is rigorous, synchronous, and not designed simply to achieve elementary or secondary educational credentials for the record books.

There is no cheating, skimping, or skipping on foundational educational skills, any more than in foundational gymnastics skills. If your kid can't read, write, calculate, and think critically and lacks basic knowledge about the world but you expect her/him to succeed in college, you're setting her/him up for a failure equivalent to what one would expect from trying to get a double back out of a kid who can't do a BHS.

Don't let my former student be your kid. Just don't.

OMG you are preaching to the choir with me. When I was in grad school I worked in Academic Services for a major D1 university program. Seeing young men who would spend 6 hours on practice and conditioning but refuse to get up and walk across the street to class was too much. Everyone seemed to think they were headed to the NFL/NBA/MLB and didn't need school. Guess what............two out of 200 are playing now.

I worked with athletes who could not properly put together a single sentence, guys who made 36 on a retake of a test where the teacher just went over the material. Too many people think athletics is the way out and education doesn't matter. It's really sad to see bright kids throw it all away for a dream that's never going to happen.

I agree that elite level gymnasts do not seem to be in the group that could care less, but I still think consistently allowing them to miss school for training sends the wrong message to the child about the value of education.

 

[Seeker]

Interesting that you talk about schools getting out so late. I just saw a news report here in California where parents were complaining that schools started too early! Apparently the early times are not allowing kids to get enough sleep. Guess no one will ever be happy. LOL

Here in Laguna the high school starts at either 7:20 or 7:30. Kids are released a bit after 2. In order to make this coach's demanded practice time, the kids would have to start school before 7. That's just insane.

Maybe schools should figure out how to be more efficient with their time. If a kid is in school that many hours (especially a younger child), there is no reason that they should be coming home with 2+ hours of homework. Adolescent kids need more sleep/sleep later than younger kids. We have a whole generation of chronically sleep deprived, stressed out kids coming our way. I'm not sure that will be a good thing.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

Whilst I agree for 99.9% school is more important it does depend on your level. And it might be different in different countries.

My old swim buddy got a scholarship to Kelly College where she swam every day. Came 5th at nationals (top 4 went to the Olympics), bombed her o levels, only passed 4 but has since gone on to have a reasonable career.

Tom Daley did very well at A level despite going to the Olympics and loosing his father, thanks to a good school that made provisions for his training schedule.

Is this my child, nope, would I take mine out of school? Nope but then she is never going to be a national champion. If she were would I? Heck yes.

 

[GymAuntie]

Maybe schools should figure out how to be more efficient with their time. If a kid is in school that many hours (especially a younger child), there is no reason that they should be coming home with 2+ hours of homework. Adolescent kids need more sleep/sleep later than younger kids. We have a whole generation of chronically sleep deprived, stressed out kids coming our way. I'm not sure that will be a good thing.

For real! Kindergarten now has a summer reading list! It's crazy.

I just checked the bell schedule for the LBUSD. All schools -- elementary, middle, and high school -- start at 7:30 a.m. Monday through Thursday and 8:30 a.m. Friday. All 5 days they dismiss at 2:35 p.m. There are 181 instructional days per year. Minimum days sometimes come up and they are 7:30 to 11:45 a.m. Middle and high school final exams are 2 hours and 35 minutes per exam with 2 exams per day. I think being in school today is much harder than it was when I was a kid, but I think my generation will come out better prepared because we learned basic skills to make us successful adults.

 

[Seeker]

OMG you are preaching to the choir with me. When I was in grad school I worked in Academic Services for a major D1 university program. Seeing young men who would spend 6 hours on practice and conditioning but refuse to get up and walk across the street to class was too much. Everyone seemed to think they were headed to the NFL/NBA/MLB and didn't need school. Guess what............two out of 200 are playing now.

I worked with athletes who could not properly put together a single sentence, guys who made 36 on a retake of a test where the teacher just went over the material. Too many people think athletics is the way out and education doesn't matter. It's really sad to see bright kids throw it all away for a dream that's never going to happen.

I agree that elite level gymnasts do not seem to be in the group that could care less, but I still think consistently allowing them to miss school for training sends the wrong message to the child about the value of education.

This situation has nothing to do with homeschool. Who ever heard of a homeschooled Football or Basketball player? This comes down to basic values -- they clearly valued sports over education. Something that was likely instilled in them by their parents, coaches AND teachers as they went through the standard school system where they became FB and BB stars. There are often many accommodations made for athletes IN school that have nothing to do with early release. Also, it should be noted that MANY non-athletes come to college unprepared. Many. It's not hard to find data on that if you look. This is a basic failure of the American educational system that has nothing to do with sports or letting Suzy out 30 mins early.

How that early release is handled (or not) is up to each school and family. How Suzy makes up what is missed and what focus and energy is put into that will vary, but that is where and how she will learn to value her education. If the missed work isn't made up or no effort is made to bridge whatever gap there may be, then Suzy knows no one thinks it's that important. There are many valuable life experiences to be had as both a child and adult. It is up to the parent to decide what they believe is important for their child and how to achieve those things. All kids and situations are different -- you know your kid, so make the best decisions for them. Adjust as needed.