WAG Level 6 struggles

[GymCMLA]

DD is 11 and a level 6. At our gym 6 is someone who has competed 5 and has all of their L7 skills on 3/4 events. For my DD, she is missing her giant. Our HC really looks to it as a bridge to 7, so we have all L7 routines except no giant on bars. Here's the trouble...1:30 minute L7 floor music b/c we use it for 2 years (the music and choreo) so that is an automatic 0.1 overtime deduction every time. And we do 3 tumbling passes ROBHSBLO, FHSFT, ROBHSBT.
Obviously there is more opportunity for deductions compared to a routine with a ROBHSBT and a FT as the only tumbling.
Same thing on beam, we are doing L7 beam routines (but I think DD is missing a B skill on beam to be a 7) But she does BHS and BWO-BWO series, Beam coach took out her sisone after the first meet (after her leap) b/c she said she got creamed on it. She is scoring in the 8.5 range and I can count at least 1.3 in little leg bent/amplitude deductions. She doesn't need either BWO in the routine.
DD know she needs to work on tighter knees an more amplitude on leaps on both events, but I am struggling with the concept of 6. I understand it was created to prevent XCEL from being the bridge from 6 to 7. I love that we have 6 and aren't repeating 5, but at the same time. I feel like it is complicated. If you are using it as a true prep-7 then you should be doing as close to a 7 routine as possible as this will pay off next year as a 7, but if you want to score well, you can make it easier/the same as a L5 routine. I wish there was some benefit to the girls of doing a more complex routine instead of it just being potential deductions.
Anyone with insight or just a good swift, "who care's" how her scores are, it is going to pay off next year.
I almost wish she were a 7 and just take the hit on bars from not having a giant and get "credit" for her beam and floor. This is our first optional experience, so maybe I just need to get used to this part of gymnastics.
Any advice?

 

[GymCMLA]

I should clarify, DD is fine (scoring great on bars which was historically her lowest event, so she is pleased as punch) and her vault has traditionally been strong. I think she wishes for higher beam and floor and she knows what she needs to focus on, it is ME struggling with the variability of how 6 is being used and the scoring system for it.
I also wish they would make L6 and L7 the same time for floor since many kids do both 6 and 7 using the same music. HC specifically told us to use 1:30 length. THe judge Sunday was shaking her head and talking to the other judge seemingly upset that our whole team was overtime.

 

[profmom]

Who cares about scores this year? Everything you're describing says they are looking toward higher optionals, not looking to kill L6. The overtime thing is not a big deal either. One very strong team near us is notorious for taking the tenth on beam in compulsories to have the time to really show off the skills. I'm guessing the judges can figure out what's going on with it and will read the coaches the riot act if they think it's a big deal. Having seen how much my DD improved with her optional floor routine after doing it for a year, I think it's reasonable to keep it the same and take the deduction rather than having a completely different routine, unless there is a VERY simple fix, like eliminating an unnecessary pass and set of transitions.

 

[GymCMLA]

Thanks Profmom!

 

[Seeker]

Scores for Floor and Beam will not improve unless they remove unnecessary skills. It's really a coaching philosophy -- compete routines that are really suitable for L7 and get the requisite deductions or build smart L6 routines that include the required skills and nothing more.

More skills = More deductions.

I also disagree with the approach even at L7 to have a floor routine that is the full 1:30. Do what you need to do and get off the floor. Many gyms max out their L7 routines at 1:10 or so. Again -- the more time you are on the floor, the more opportunity there is for deductions. Endurance for upper level routines can be built during practice, but personally if I'm competing in a meet, I'd like to go into it as competitive as possible.

 

[kandkfunk]

I also don't understand the 1:30 second floor routine, even for level 7. My DD's routines were always under 1:10 and she never did 3 passes at level 7. There is no need to.

That being said, this is her coach's philosophy and presumably he/she has had success in the past. There really isn't anything you can do about it unless you want to be "that mom", so it's probably best to focus on the positives. The fact that your daughter is already competing a BHS at level 6 is great! So many kids don't. Some in our area don't even compete it at level 7. She also already has a pretty difficult connection on beam. Many girls I know think the BWO-BWO connection is harder than a BHS-BWO connection. And those tumbling passes will definitely prepare her to upgrade for level 8.

My best advice is to enjoy the ride. In a year or two, you won't even remember these struggles.

 

[GymnastMomX2]

Our gym is doing something similar with level 6s. My DD has a level 7 floor routine (although see my other post she has lots she can clean up, she only got her layout a few weeks ago, not sure why they even put it in..) but she is struggling on beam skills so just has the bare minimum, actually even missing a skill. Guess which event she scored better on? Yep. Beam. Im trying not to stress either, they are just working to prepare them for higher level optionals, and next year they will kick butt

 

[GYM0M]

Our L7 are maxed out too! It was monstrously apparent after our first meet a couple weeks ago. Coaches met with us just to remind us (me and hubs and another set of parents) that the goal is not a L7 regional title.....but it is a bit difficult to grasp....

 

[Seeker]

I think that is all well and good and it's great that when coaches communicate with both athlete and parent about this process (some do not), but I also think it's important to remember that these are kids we're dealing with and it can be quite demoralizing and disappointing to put in all this hard work and then not have that translate to success in the meets. Yes, it is important to prepare them for the higher levels, but it must be balanced with a the opportunity to have a bit of success along the way.

Taking a relatively young child thru the levels quickly while not allowing them to achieve some success (because they're competing skills they just learned) can be detrimental emotionally in the long run. Training is training and the desired progressions can happen there, but I think it's important that they're well positioned to have success in the meets they compete in so that their enjoyment and desire to continue in the sport stays healthy. All that being said -- I'm not a coach, so this is just the view of a parent who's child was pushed pretty quickly thru L4-L7 at 2 different gyms with very different approaches.

 

[gymmutti]

I think my DD would agree that the BWO-BHS connection is easier than the BWO-BWO. We use the same music for L6 and L7 but keep it to L6 timeframes. All girls do 2 tumbling passes (working others at practice in prep for L8) and it seems to work well.

 

[GYM0M]

I think that is all well and good and it's great that when coaches communicate with both athlete and parent about this process (some do not), but I also think it's important to remember that these are kids we're dealing with and it can be quite demoralizing and disappointing to put in all this hard work and then not have that translate to success in the meets. Yes, it is important to prepare them for the higher levels, but it must be balanced with a the opportunity to have a bit of success along the way.

Taking a relatively young child thru the levels quickly while not allowing them to achieve some success (because they're competing skills they just learned) can be detrimental emotionally in the long run.

I agree. Success is important for their tiny emotions. DD has only competed in 1 small L7 meet thus far. I think her coaches were mindful in selecting the appropriate meets to take these types of routines. So at the end of the day, she was satisfied with her scores and placements.

 

[GymCMLA]

I appreciate the insight. DD said that Beam coach is pruning the routines for the last 3 meets and state. She sees what's happening.

 

[curlymomof3]

My Dd is in the same position as yours. She pretty much has all her level 7 skills, minus the giant, and is competing as a Level 6. At the first meet, she competed a Level 7 beam routine and scored in the mid 7s The coach realized that she would get less deductions if she just stuck with the required skills and had a shorter routine. A week later, she competed with her "new" level 6 routine and scored an 8.5! Granted, I realize it might be the judges and the venue that also contributed to the higher score but a full point is a huge improvement. She is still training the Level 7 skills in the gym, just not including them in her routine for now. As others have said, competing with more difficult skills just leaves more room for deductions.

 

[raenndrops]

How is her clear hip? I know you said coach requires giants for L7, but when you said that you wish she was competing L7 and taking the hit on bars, I was thinking that a low bar clear hip and a high bar clear hip and no giant needed.
Don't worry about the L6 scores. You KNOW why she is scoring as she is... not her fault they are MAKING her go over time. It will all pay off when she moves to L7.

 

[GymCMLA]

Her clear hip is fine but not to vertical (she does cast to handstand, clear hip kip) IF she was cast to hand stand, clear hip to handstand then she could be a 7 now. (Or do her giant). She does the clearhip to handstand and giant with a spot, but bot alone.
I'm settling into this L6 being a bridge to 7 and that it will pay off next year, just a little hard some times now. Not really with HC but more with how L6 is constructed, sometimes it seems like it is "easier" than L5 but being used as an almost 7 by most, so there is such a variety of kids and routines and ways to use the level requirements.

 

[gymmomx2]

Not really with HC but more with how L6 is constructed, sometimes it seems like it is "easier" than L5 but being used as an almost 7 by most, so there is such a variety of kids and routines and ways to use the level requirements.

I think this is the beauty of L6

 

[sevenatenine2]

A bit of a different opinion, but if there's one thing that I've learned after 25 years in the sport, it's that tomorrow is not promised. We all train with an eye to the future but for some of these kids, for various reasons, Level 6 may be as high as they go. I understand the rationale of training the highest level skills you can do to prepare for the next level, but I wouldn't add additional, unneeded skills that are taking huge or automatic deductions and take them to the meet. Floor Express has Level 6 and Level 7 cuts of music. Why not just buy the two cuts and have a Level 6 routine this year, next year, keep the same music selection and choreography except for the additional length and an extra choreography pass and you'd be good. It would be worth the effort for me.

 

[CoachMeg]

Think of it this way: your gymnast will have an entire season to prepare the same routines she'll be competing as a 7 (minus the giant), while the other 6s have to completely jump an entire level and learn completely new skills.

I agree level 6 is all over the place. Our 6s are competing what your daughter seems to be doing as well. The only difference from 6 to 7 at our gym is the giant and having flight on beam (although some of our girls do compete a back-handspring or round-off, and one girl competes both ---- although, none of our level 6s have giants by themselves).

Personally I think they created level 6 for two reasons:
a) Because jumping from the old compulsory level 6 to optional 7 is such a big jump (think level 5 now to 7...its the same thing). And some girls never make it to optional and end up repeating level 5 for 2+ years. So they created level 6 so a lot more people are able to experience the optional levels.

AND

b) To fast track the more talented kids to optional instead of spending too much time in compulsories. That way they get experience with their own routines and choreography and are able to up-train a lot more and at a faster rate.

Our level 6 team has girls in both categories. By the sounds of your daughter and the skills she's competing, it sounds like she falls into category b. Which is a good thing! So while it may be frustrating this year when she's competing skills she doesn't necessarily have to and getting gypped out of medals to girls doing cartwheels on beam and 2 tumbling passes on floor, just know that the rest of her optional career will benefit A TON from this experience and she'll progress through the levels at a much quicker rate.

 

[CoachMeg]

Also- sticking with level 6 this year and gaining more experience with these skills (and continuing to up-train) will benefit her way more than jumping to level 7 this year. Although it may seem like she's ready, trust me when I say that if she waits to compete 7 until next season she will be hard to beat and she'll have a very successful year. Otherwise she'll be behind as a level 7 and her confidence may go down if she doesn't score or place well. And she might end up having to repeat level 7. Where as if she waits, she'll already have all the level 7 skills and be able to up train level 8. This way she can progress the levels each season AND be successful.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Think of it this way: your gymnast will have an entire season to prepare the same routines she'll be competing as a 7 (minus the giant), while the other 6s have to completely jump an entire level and learn completely new skills.

I agree level 6 is all over the place. Our 6s are competing what your daughter seems to be doing as well. The only difference from 6 to 7 at our gym is the giant and having flight on beam (although some of our girls do compete a back-handspring or round-off, and one girl competes both ---- although, none of our level 6s have giants by themselves).

Personally I think they created level 6 for two reasons:
a) Because jumping from the old compulsory level 6 to optional 7 is such a big jump (think level 5 now to 7...its the same thing). And some girls never make it to optional and end up repeating level 5 for 2+ years. So they created level 6 so a lot more people are able to experience the optional levels.

AND

b) To fast track the more talented kids to optional instead of spending too much time in compulsories. That way they get experience with their own routines and choreography and are able to up-train a lot more and at a faster rate.

Our level 6 team has girls in both categories. By the sounds of your daughter and the skills she's competing, it sounds like she falls into category b. Which is a good thing! So while it may be frustrating this year when she's competing skills she doesn't necessarily have to and getting gypped out of medals to girls doing cartwheels on beam and 2 tumbling passes on floor, just know that the rest of her optional career will benefit A TON from this experience and she'll progress through the levels at a much quicker rate.

This is my DD on a lower level: she's doing Xcel Gold instead of compulsories. She's not scoring as well as the girls doing easier cleaner skills, but she's getting awesome experience competing 3 passes, flyaway, BHS on beam, ect. I think we'll be in your (OP's)boat next season. I highly doubt she'll be ready for 7 once she scores out of 4/5, but I think he'll still have her do as tough of skills as she can handle at 6. The more I learn, it sounds like 6 will be the perfect place for her. Good luck!!!