Parents At a loss (mental block follow-up)

[MerriWeather]

I posted a while back about my DD's block over doing her ROBH and I am starting a new thread because it seems to be part of a bigger issue. She is ten years old and a Level 3.

We are having a problem with her putting in "just enough" effort in things. It's always been a bit of a problem for DH and I, but as we go through this gymnastics thing, we see it there and it's really getting bad. To the point where she's probably not going to level up because she just won't put the effort in - she actually told me today she'd rather be held back and I gather it's because she thinks then she will be at the top of the team. Instead of working hard and improving!

I watched her at practice Friday and it was maddening. As soon as she thought no one was looking, she was skipping out on things she was supposed to be doing! She spent more time rearranging the mats than actually doing the skills. I wanted to dive over the balcony and throttle her!

She tends to lose confidence and give up if it doesn't come to her easily or quickly (all things, not just gymnastics). I have never been that way, so I don't know how to teach someone how to work hard. We have invested so much in gymnastics it's downright depressing to see her do just enough to get by (even though she says she loves it!) and pretty much waste our time and money.

I have asked her REPEATEDLY does she want to do gymnastics and she says absolutely! She loves it! And she does gymnastics all over the place and talks about it, reads about it, draws pictures about it, etc when we're not at the gym.

The most painful part was this morning as I was emailing her coaches for the 100th time and said her lack of effort is frustrating my husband and I - she wrote back that her lack of effort is definitely a problem... more so than the skills she doesn't yet have. So it'snot even that the coach looks at her and thinks she's slow/behind/whatever - the coach can see she's not trying, too.

She is like this with EVERYTHING. She wants to do things, but she doesn't want to try to make it happen. It's so far removed from who I am by nature I don't even know how to deal with it!

We have a one-year financial commitment to our gym (through May) and then only have something like 2 weeks in June to re-commit for the next year, so if I were to pull her for a bit, I'd still have to pay for it (is that even normal to have to commit financially to an e tire year - even if you completely quit?). I have thought of having her try the other gym just outside of town (she went there years ago for rec and we loved the gym, switched when we moved), but I'd have to pay for that on top of paying for our current gym.

Ideas?

 

[MILgymFAM]

She loves gym, but does she like to compete? At her age/level, it doesn't seem like the commitment is all that deep yet, but I just don't get competition in general, so that's me. My younger DD also tends to forcibly project an "I don't care" image when she feels like she can't do something. It's not that she doesn't care, it's just she is frustrated, disappointed in herself, and not mature enough to deal with it in a more positive manner yet. Maybe the maturity will come for your DD naturally as she gets older, or maybe she slacks off because she loves gym but does't care about the pressure of competing. I can definitional read your frustrations in your post, and I hope that you all figure out the best course to make DD happy and on the same page with you and your husband. Good luck.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

Let me start out by saying that a little over a year ago, I could have written this post!!
My gymmie was exactly like that.... Didn't want to put in an effort at anything, if it didn't come easy she just moved on to something else or ignored it. I would see her cheating at assignments constantly. Seemed to have zero drive whatsoever. Drove me nuts!

She shaped up enough for me to let her start training TOPs (I made her prove to me she was serious for a few months before allowing it, the coaches had suggested it several times but mentally she just wasn't ready). She started TOPs about 18mo ago, and it helped her quite a bit. 5-6mo later they moved her to team (old L4), right at the end of season so no competing or anything, just training. Lots of girls were moved to team, which was later in the summer split into new L3 and new L4... Only the girls who worked hard and already had certain skills +were well on their way to get other certain skills were moved to new 4 and she worked really hard to get into that group (she made it).
Fast forward to today. What a huge difference! She still sometimes cheats on conditioning assignments (but gets called out on it, doing it less and less). She has learned to work for her success and not give up even when it's hard. She WANTS to be there and it shows even when things aren't going the way she wants them to. She isn't the highest scorer or most natural gymnast on her team, but she works hard for it and she doesn't give up. I am so very proud of her for turning herself around.

I don't know if it was a maturity thing (she is 9 1/2 now) or simply that she needed to WANT something. She doesn't care overmuch about scoring and placement (she is happy if she's not dead last!) but she wants to be moving on and learning new things. She LOVES competing and does better at meets than in practice. She needed to be challenged and somewhere along this year she found her drive and tenacity. I don't think the outcome would have been the same if the coaches had not seen something in her and placed her in the lower level instead of where they put her... I am so thankful!

Interestingly enough I just had a chat with her school teacher (she is in 4th grade, one of the youngest in her class) and her teacher commented on how much more focused she is now as opposed to the beginning of the school year. I blame gymnastics!!

I hope your dd can find what motivates her too. The difference in my gymmie is profound..!

 

[LizzieLac]

Gosh, wish I had some words of wisdom, but I not sure I do. It may be a maturity thing. Or maybe that she has not competed that much so she doesn't really "know" that hard work pays off. That is a great concept that some people buy into at face value, but others have to experience it to believe.

At 10, I don't think it is unreasonable to tell her that she has to "prove" to you that she loves the sport and "show" you the effort. This is an expensive sport and it is ok for her to understand that you are making your "investment" so she needs to as well. You may need to define what "showing effort" is,

I came home from work and my son had finished his homework and was playing on his itouch. I told him that he still has one more private lesson with a batting coach (he is a travel baseball player). But if he didn't go down in the basement and work on swing drills and mechanics I was going to cancel the lesson. It is $100 an hour and he has to SHOW ME that he deserves that lesson and that he is trying to reinforce what he is learning. He is 11. I have no problem telling him like it is.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

I agree with Lizzie 100%. I tell both my kids that we (as a family) make sacrifices so that they can do their chosen activities. I tell them it is expensive. I tell them it takes time away from other things. I tell them these are things I am ok with, as long as they WANT to do their activities and work hard at them. They do not have to be the best, but they have to be the best THEY can be. I will support them every way I can because I find so much joy in watching them do something they love.
That is what I had gymmie dd prove when she wanted to start on "the other side" (going from rec to TOPs 18mo ago). She had to pay attention and not goof around in class at all for 2-3mo (I can't remember exactly how long but it was quite a while).
I don't believe there's anything wrong at all with kids knowing that this isn't something they should take for granted. They are very lucky that they are able to do the activity they have chosen, not all kids are so fortunate. They should appreciate us paying for it and taking the time to drive them there etc... And the way they show appreciation is by working hard at it.

I once walked in to work (I work at her gym) to hear the optional coach letting the girls training know exactly that, in no uncertain terms. He really laid into them about how if they weren't giving it their all each and every practice, they were disrespecting their parents, they were disrespecting their coach and most of all disrespecting themselves. He straight up told them "if you don't think your parents have other things to spend their money on or other things they would rather be doing than drive you to practice, you are dead wrong and you need to really appreciate all they sacrifice so you can be here. For you to turn around and train half a&$ed is disrespectful and ungrateful"...

I also tell them that if they do not want to go full out, there is nothing wrong at all with doing rec classes or whatever, they should absolutely not feel forced in any way to do this. I love watching them do what they love, but if they no longer love it, it's OK to quit or find some other way to enjoy it.

 

[Sasha]

Lizzie and SurpiseGymMom already expressed my feelings to a T.

I'll add my related story as we struggled with this last year....

One of my first posts in this community was lamenting the exact same scenario with my DS. He was, I believe, 9 at the time. He reportedly loved gym, on track to compete, had natural talent to boot, and did cartwheels, handstands, or (ugly) front handsprings whenever someone was looking his way. He was and is fearless, and loved (still loves) to show off. He was fast to learn the basic skills, etc.

BUT. It was clear, practically from the start (especially in hindsight) that he was simply not a hard worker at gym. He would cheat on conditioning every chance he got - though as soon as coach would walk by, he would of course pretend to have been working very hard.

What made it harder was that younger DS was (and still is) also in gym. And younger DS is also very talented, but also has that DRIVE that simply makes one work extremely hard - often until exhaustion or blood - until you achieve whatever you are trying to achieve. It is just in him. We worried we had to be 'fair' and offer gym to both boys since they both verbally expressed their desire for the sport.

Both boys would do some light conditioning at home (younger DS on his own free will), and to test older DS's commitment, we encouraged older DS to do some conditioning (pushups, mainly) with younger DS. Older DS would complain, and then actually over-dramatize and cry when it started to get a little bit hard. And in no way were we brutal! It just started to be challenging (past his comfort zone), and his instinct is to give up.

This was ultimately very telling for us. We had already been down the "Prove to us you really want it / the conditioning will make you strong and ready for new skills" / etc etc, all the logical encouragement. He just didn't have 'it' in him to drive himself in this endeavor.

With the help of great advice on CB, we decided to pull him out. Gym is way too expensive for our family to put toward a kid who doesn't give his/her best because he/she really really wants it (without our constant prodding).

He has not begged to return. He is happy to show off his handstands to friends and let that be it. And we're happy not to be stressing over this any longer.

If your DD doesn't step up to task, I feel you're well within bounds to lovingly express the requirements of competitive gym, and lovingly point out her alternative options (rec, other sport, maybe Xcel, etc.).

Hope you find the right path for you and DD!

 

[gymdog]

Xcel.

Don't pull her from gym if she loves it, that won't teach her to work hard.

 

[MerriWeather]

I don't even know what Xcel is?

 

[MerriWeather]

Never mind this one.

 

[txgymfan]

I would have a conversation about "This is what hard work looks like". Be very specific if she expects to stay in gymnastics she must show you she is trying by doing XYZ (not skipping turns, doing 30 conditioning at home 3 x a week, not cheating conditioning at gym, not disrespecting coach). If she can prove to you that she wants it , let her continue, if not pull her.

I would do the same at home for privileges. If you want TV time you will do XYZ to prove that you deserve it.

 

[sce]

She tends to lose confidence and give up if it doesn't come to her easily or quickly (all things, not just gymnastics). I have never been that way, so I don't know how to teach someone how to work hard.

She is like this with EVERYTHING. She wants to do things, but she doesn't want to try to make it happen. It's so far removed from who I am by nature I don't even know how to deal with it!


Ideas?

Sounds like perfectionist behavior. I know it seems like the opposite. But, if she doesn't try then she has a reason she's not succeeding. She may be afraid to try and still not succeed.

 

[Sasha]

I'm curious - has she always had problems with hard work/conditioning/self-motivation in gym since she started? Or did she start out very dedicated and has become gradually less hard-working over time?

I was just considering what SCE said above, and it made me think about kids who start out gung-ho about something, but then start to see other kids advance or pick up skills faster (perhaps because they have more talent, or are just more experienced). The child begins to assess that some other kids are just 'better', and some confidence in their own abilities is lost; hence, she ceases trying as hard because she feels inside that it won't really matter. No idea if this is your DD, but a thought.

Whatever the underlying cause, I still say she is still old enough to understand what being on team will require of her, and be given a sincere chance to prove her commitment to her coach and you. If she still won't commit to everything asked of her (all the conditioning, drill reps, etc., without cheating), then she won't be able to keep up with the skills at some point, and an alternative arrangement such as Xcel or rec to still let her enjoy the sport would be more appropriate (and cheaper). Those alternatives will be much easier than watching her slowly fall behind the harder workers in JO, which will be painful for all involved. If this were my DD, that would be my take.

Best,
s

 

[gymdog]

I don't even know what Xcel is?

Xcel allows them to do optional routines at a lower level, so she could continue competing without requiring a RO BHS. Maybe your gym doesn't offer it.

I really wouldn't make her prove or do anything unless you're really unwilling to let her do gymnastics unless she conforms to an arbitrary standard of development. Every kid is different. I feel strongly about this. If so, direct her to another activity. But if you are willing to let her continue, let her own it. If she really wants it she will learn how to work hard.

And, many or most or all kids will do the things you describe in certain circumstances. Otherwise, our jobs would be far easier

 

[profmom]

It can be a process for some of them. DS's one teammate, for instance, giggled and fooled around for most of the time at L4 and got a little less silly for his first year at L5. He did OK and when he focused and did the skills, he looked good, but he wasn't making the most of his training time by any stretch of the imagination. Last summer, the switch clicked to a glowing bright neon green ON and he took off like a rocket ship. Took first AA at almost every meet this year and came in second AA at states. I expect him to win L6 states next year.

Gymdog is right on from where I sit.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

She is like this with EVERYTHING. She wants to do things, but she doesn't want to try to make it happen. It's so far removed from who I am by nature I don't even know how to deal with it!

Ideas?

I totally feel for you! My older dd was (is) so much like this! What makes it especially hard is that her dad and I have a high achievement drive and can't understand why she is this way! In her case, she tried several things, soccer, gymnastics, piano, cheerleading, horseback riding, choir, etc. Saddest part is, she has a vocal gift that many people would die for! She has an amazing voice and absolutely zero interest in becoming the best she can be. At first she was given solos because her talent was enough to make up for her lack of effort. By late high school, she no longer got bigger parts because the director knew other kids were working so much harder. We offered incentives for effort, we encouraged her to practice...to no avail. Nothing truly motivated her to do her best until 9th grade when she discovered color guard with the marching band. She is two years out of high school and still claims her participation and performance in that activity is what she is most proud of! We keep thinking the light will come on and she will recognize how working hard and realizing the results of that effort feels REALLY good and can apply to lots of things in your life. So far, she hasn't made the connection!!!!

I am still glad we didn't pull her out of choir. She loved singing, and really enjoyed performing. She had wonderful experiences and made lots of memories. That said, it was a school and church activity, so we weren't shelling out lots of $$$ for her to participate.

With this child, I have had to make myself find things to appreciate to keep from going completely crazy over her lack of drive and initiative. She is kind, and loving. She is loyal and dependable. She is smart, beautiful, creative, and expressive. But she may never be driven to seek excellence. sigh.

Hopefully, your dd will outgrow this stage and find something that lights a fire!

 

[GymGirl's Mom]

Sounds like perfectionist behavior. I know it seems like the opposite. But, if she doesn't try then she has a reason she's not succeeding. She may be afraid to try and still not succeed.

This is my daughter to a T. Frustrating. Afraid of not being "perfect" and in a sport that rewards perfection it can be difficult.

 

[MerriWeather]

I am back.

First, for those who said don't pull her regardless, I don't know about you guys, but I don't have a money tree to shell out $$$ month after month to let her just do "good enough" (which isn't even!). We have NO local meets (closest is 1.5 hours away), so every other weekend, we have gas, meal, admission and sometimes lodging expenses. Add to it that our gymnast one of four kids - two of which who have not been able to do some of the activities they want to do because of scheduling (one is too little to be affected yet)... our DD staying in gymnastics and plugging along just isn't an option for us.

So we had a talk with her last night. We chose to be up front with her about the fact that we pay a lot for her to be on the team, and everyone in our family makes sacrifices so she can participate.

We were very clear that it's not about what level she is or what she can or cannot do. It's about her working hard and doing her very best. We asked her if she thinks she is giving it her all and she said not always. I told her that I watched her on Friday and saw her continuously adjusting mats, waiting for her coach to come to her, or outright not attempting things when she thought no one was looking.

We told her that our team commitment is until the end of May and that we cannot let her continue if we are putting our time and money as a family into it and she's not going to give it her all.

We also told her that it's her job to do the very best she can and for the coaches to decide where she is going to be as far as levels go.

Honestly, I think she needs tougher coaching. I know her coach tried it at one point and she cried (DD, not the coach!) but if she's not doing what she needs to be doing, then she needs to know it's not ok. Tears will happen.

I watched her repeatedly stand around and wait for her coach to spot her on back handsprings because she knows her coach will do it. When she stood there on the trampoline, holding everyone up and I told her to JUST DO IT, she did! And then the next time, she waited for her coach again. She's taking advantage of her coach and honestly, taking away from the other girls when she's wasting the coach's time. It's not fair to anyone.

It's up to her now. She has until the end of May to either put everything she's got into it or she can go back to rec or be done. She knows this.

We don't want to be so hard on her, but she has no work ethic (in anything, not just gymnastics) and it's time she learned some, especially when she has teammates who depend on her and a family who is making monetary and time sacrifices for her.

We are going to see about watching part of one practice a week to see if she's making changes. If she can't or doesn't, then she will know it was her choice to go back to rec or be done.

 

[MerriWeather]

Sounds like perfectionist behavior. I know it seems like the opposite. But, if she doesn't try then she has a reason she's not succeeding. She may be afraid to try and still not succeed.

It is absolutely perfectionist behavior and I know it.

 

[gymdog]

I think you should just steer her to a different sport that is less of a sacrifice for your family and perhaps less competitive.

 

[MerriWeather]

It's not that we CAN'T afford it, but honestly, who wants to spend hundreds of dollars a month on something their kid won't put effort into? Gymnastics is not the first time we've had this problem with her by far (school is the most common place we deal with it).

I do appreciate your input, but I want to try to teach her how to work harder because this is an issue in more than just gymnastics and it's a life skill. Sure, I can put her in a cheaper sport but she's still not going to work hard. I'd rather first address the issue of work ethic in a sport she does love and wants to be in.