Parents Can you help me explain scoring on this XG UB routine?

[Sandpapertongue]

Hi,
I would appreciate an explanation of how this bars routine was scored, from anyone who knows. This is an Xcel Gold routine, and I definitely see a lot of little deductions -- bent hips, feet not together. But is there a big deduction somewhere? She scored a 8.2 on this routine, and teammates who had a fall on the squat on to high bar scored higher than her. During one of her previous meets, she scored a 7.8 with a very similar performance and got the same score as a teammate who fell 3 times. She has also gotten a 8.9 once and again, it looked the same to me. Is it because she is not quite horizontal on her cast? I'd appreciate any insight because I honestly don't know and neither does my daughter. Thanks!

New video by Laney Junk

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[Tmacs]

I don’t see it either! Not 8.2 in my opinion at all. She could definitely tighten things up and work on the hollow shape... might be a deduction each swing? But it looked more in the mid to high 8s to me.

 

[Mrsboots87]

Shes losing a lot of little deductions. Like a lot. Those 0.1 deductions add up quick. Her feet split in at least 3-4 different parts which all deduct. Knees bent on the pullover with 2 extra movements before the cast. Her body is not straight while on the low bar during her back hip circle and there are a few extra movements during second 14-17 that likely earned a deduction. She curves her lower back instead of staying in hollow form during her cast. She squats on but does not straighten her legs before the jump to high bar, she does not get into a hollow position in her high bar swing, not enough height during her tap swing and her feet separate at the same time. I am not a judge, just a gym parent and that’s what I see. The 8.2 is a reasonable score for this routine.

And I hope this isn’t taken wrong. I totally am not trying to pick her apart, only answering the question of why the score was so low.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

There is a requirement for a horizontal cast in gold and she is missing it. That means that her highest possible score if everything were perfect would be a 9.5, not a 10.

The shape and lack of amplitude in the tap swings and dismount are costing her a lot in deductions and she does a LOT of tap swings, so all those deductions are x3. A tap swing is supposed to get bigger with every swing. Like swinging on a swingset, you push with your toes and push/pull with your arms to go higher and higher. Her tap swings get smaller each time because she is only using the momentum from her jump to high bar and not creating any more. This causes amplitude/shape deductions and makes her dismount very low. My understanding is that it's supposed to be done horizontal to the bar. (Though it's really hard to do properly and even most compulsory kids I've seen do not make it to horizontal, but it should be as close as possible.)

You may already know this, but a horizontal cast means if you drew a horizontal line from her shoulder, her whole body should be on or above that line. I grabbed these two pictures. You can see if the first one, she is not too far off, with a good shape. But instead of driving her legs up the last three inches, she pikes, so her torso goes up, but her toes go down and so in addition to losing credit for the skill, she is getting deductions for shape/piking.

One of the hardest things to wrap your head around as a gym parent is how a child who does not fall can score lower than a child who does. But when you realize a child can lose .2-.5 or more on every single skill for knees/toes/shape, amplitude, it makes a lot more sense. My daughter use to lose up to .5 in her leap pass every floor routine for slightly bent knees, a flexed back foot, and uneven split. That's as much as a fall even though the lay viewer wouldn't see much wrong. One of my daughter's platinum meets, her straddle jump was just a few degrees not wide enough. The judge could have easily downgraded it and then she would have lost an entire point off her score (no leap pass and no b skill), dropping her from second place to last, even though to a lay-mom, the routine looked nearly identical to the other ones she'd done.. There is so much involved in scoring!

I hope this is helpful. She's obviously got a lot of talent and more time and practice on the skills and shapes will clean everything up and see her score climb. Gymnastics is for sure a marathon and she will put all the pieces together!

Also I hope you don't mind the screen grabs. It's just such an effective way to illustrate. I will have them removed if you want!

 

[Pirouette]

I showed it to DD18 without sharing the score with her, and she estimated a 7.8. She said the tap swings alone were a bunch of deductions, and the legs coming apart multiple times. Also the adjusting of her grip on the low bar. Plenty of time for improvement! Best wishes to her!

 

[3rd_time_around]

So... I had a 9.5 start value. In gold, it’s either a horizontal cast or it’s not, there’s no “almost” with partial credit. It’s horizontal or it’s no value part, no special requirement given. Then I had 1.8 in deductions. That’s a 7.700. So a gymnast with great form and meeting all special requirements would certainly score better even with a fall.

If she took out the swings except for 2, her score would improve by at least .4. Her dismount is supposed to be near horizontal and just below the bar when she turns, and she actually is almost in a vertical hang when she turns. And of course if she gets her cast to horizontal, she will improve her score even more. My dd was in Gold this past season, and her swings were not good. I asked to have all but one tap swing-counterswing removed, and her score went up because there were less deductions. And while there are no extra swing deductions, there are rhythm And amplitude deductions that can be taken for stopping in the routine.

As she gets stronger her form will improve and she should start scoring better.

 

[Sandpapertongue]

There is a requirement for a horizontal cast in gold and she is missing it. That means that her highest possible score if everything were perfect would be a 9.5, not a 10....
I hope this is helpful. She's obviously got a lot of talent and more time and practice on the skills and shapes will clean everything up and see her score climb. Gymnastics is for sure a marathon and she will put all the pieces together!

Also I hope you don't mind the screen grabs. It's just such an effective way to illustrate. I will have them removed if you want!

Thank you SOOOO much!! This was extremely helpful. I realized she had a lot of form breaks but I had no idea about the value of the deductions. I really appreciate you taking the time to go through her routine for me. And I have a feeling that DD has no idea either. I'm not positive that sharing this with her would help, she has a tendency to feel overwhelmed and criticized, but for me personally, this was very illuminating and useful. There is so much about this sport that I don't know! Thanks again!

 

[Sandpapertongue]

So... I had a 9.5 start value. In gold, it’s either a horizontal cast or it’s not, there’s no “almost” with partial credit. It’s horizontal or it’s no value part, no special requirement given. Then I had 1.8 in deductions. That’s a 7.700. So a gymnast with great form and meeting all special requirements would certainly score better even with a fall.

If she took out the swings except for 2, her score would improve by at least .4. Her dismount is supposed to be near horizontal and just below the bar when she turns, and she actually is almost in a vertical hang when she turns. And of course if she gets her cast to horizontal, she will improve her score even more. My dd was in Gold this past season, and her swings were not good. I asked to have all but one tap swing-counterswing removed, and her score went up because there were less deductions. And while there are no extra swing deductions, there are rhythm And amplitude deductions that can be taken for stopping in the routine.

As she gets stronger her form will improve and she should start scoring better.

Thank you! It was a pretty rough season. They only had one competition in 2020 before everything shut down, and when they started up four months later, it just seemed like the girls were always trying to play catchup, never quite ready for their competitions.

I am so thankful for you responding with your details. There is so much I had no idea about, including the dismount being near horizontal and that the additional swings were causing such deductions. Thanks for the education!!

 

[Sandpapertongue]

Shes losing a lot of little deductions. Like a lot. Those 0.1 deductions add up quick. Her feet split in at least 3-4 different parts which all deduct. Knees bent on the pullover with 2 extra movements before the cast. Her body is not straight while on the low bar during her back hip circle and there are a few extra movements during second 14-17 that likely earned a deduction. She curves her lower back instead of staying in hollow form during her cast. She squats on but does not straighten her legs before the jump to high bar, she does not get into a hollow position in her high bar swing, not enough height during her tap swing and her feet separate at the same time. I am not a judge, just a gym parent and that’s what I see. The 8.2 is a reasonable score for this routine.

And I hope this isn’t taken wrong. I totally am not trying to pick her apart, only answering the question of why the score was so low.

I really appreciate your help! You are not picking her apart at all, these are all things I had no idea about. The bad part is, I don't know if DD really knows this either!

 

[Courtney]

Hi,
I would appreciate an explanation of how this bars routine was scored, from anyone who knows. This is an Xcel Gold routine, and I definitely see a lot of little deductions -- bent hips, feet not together. But is there a big deduction somewhere? She scored a 8.2 on this routine, and teammates who had a fall on the squat on to high bar scored higher than her. During one of her previous meets, she scored a 7.8 with a very similar performance and got the same score as a teammate who fell 3 times. She has also gotten a 8.9 once and again, it looked the same to me. Is it because she is not quite horizontal on her cast? I'd appreciate any insight because I honestly don't know and neither does my daughter. Thanks!

New video by Laney Junk

photos.app.goo.gl

She has to many tap swings l (I would take .3 on each the shape and height (total .9) . Cast is below horizontal look at lowest point of body (.5 deduction) she also has a rythm deduction after back hip circle (.3) shape on bhc is piked .3 and slightly bent knees on pull over score range (7.8-8.2)

 

[Deleted member 18037]

One of the hardest things to wrap your head around as a gym parent is how a child who does not fall can score lower than a child who does. But when you realize a child can lose .2-.5 or more on every single skill for knees/toes/shape, amplitude, it makes a lot more sense.

This. 10 years later I’m not sure my husband has wrapped his head around it.

 

[Coach Kate]

I didn't read all the replies, but in case no one else said this, the routine only started out of a 9.5 due to no horizontal cast. In gold, if they don't cast to horizontal, they are missing a special requirement and the start value is lowered. I also agree that there are a lot of deductions, including all of the bent legs, the shapes, and the pauses.