Parents Comments about body shape on 8 year old

[twinmomma]

Let's not spin it to obfuscate like the politicians and elected officials do to try to cover up bad behavior. It ain't rocket science.

Talking about body parts/shapes is body shaming.

Talking about nutrition, strength, sleep, adequate protein, take it easy on processed foods is fine. It's probably not OK if aimed at one particular kid, best to talk to a group.

Talking about an 8 year old's butt is abhorrent.

It's not that complicated. Advertising and social media images of women have a bad track record in the US (and unfortunately the last year has been awful). The gym should be a safe harbor for these amazing kids.

THIS. 1000%

 

[rjb123]

Bingo on all points

I wonder if the coach was trying to explain it may make her appear to be more piked looking than straight? Just as a child with knobby knees will get more deductions because their legs don't appear as straight? Just a thought...

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Let's not spin it to obfuscate like the politicians and elected officials do to try to cover up bad behavior. It ain't rocket science.

Talking about body parts/shapes is body shaming.

Talking about nutrition, strength, sleep, adequate protein, take it easy on processed foods is fine. It's probably not OK if aimed at one particular kid, best to talk to a group.

Talking about an 8 year old's butt is abhorrent.

It's not that complicated. Advertising and social media images of women have a bad track record in the US (and unfortunately the last year has been awful). The gym should be a safe harbor for these amazing kids.

the NCAA teams even have policies in place about ratios , so I fail to see how this is a spin. An athlete packs on 29 pounds and is put on a diet. This happens . So my question is , is singling out one athlete and putting her in a diet body shaming ?

 

[twinmomma]

the NCAA teams even have policies in place about ratios , so I fail to see how this is a spin. An athlete packs on 29 pounds and is put on a diet. This happens . So my question is , is singling out one athlete and putting her in a diet body shaming ?

Can the athlete still compete her skills? Then yes, it is body shaming. If the weight has changed her ability to do her sport, then a diet MAY be necessary to assist with weight loss to facilitate skill retention. There may be other things at work than just diet.

 

[Lunde]

the NCAA teams even have policies in place about ratios , so I fail to see how this is a spin. An athlete packs on 29 pounds and is put on a diet. This happens . So my question is , is singling out one athlete and putting her in a diet body shaming ?

You are comparing apples and oranges - the OP is not about a gymnast who is overweight in any way. OP's child is bordering underweight (lower end BMI), not to mention the gymnast is 8. Therefore the comments from this coach have nothing to do with safety and are absolutely body shaming.

 

[Midwestmommy]

An 8 year old is not a 20 year old. I am very very familiar with an NCAA program in a different sport. I have no idea if some college gymnastics programs are still back in the dark ages, I suspect given what's in the news the last few years it's getting better.

In this other sport, they don't call it a "diet." They call it a nutritional program and they work on a program to eat more fish, proteins, cut down on processed foods etc. They don't single out one kid, roughly 30 percent of this team are in the program. Some probably need to build up more mass and strength (gasp) and some pribably need to lower BMI.

And yes you are spinning.. and by the way body shaming doesn't work.. it's not effective.

 

[Midwestmommy]

PS one of my favorite images is these Div 1 team girls clomping around in their heels and dresses at a banquet. They are strong and tough and fierce and talented and confident, and great role models - love it!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

An 8 year old is not a 20 year old. I am very very familiar with an NCAA program in a different sport. I have no idea if some college gymnastics programs are still back in the dark ages, I suspect given what's in the news the last few years it's getting better.

In this other sport, they don't call it a "diet." They call it a nutritional program and they work on a program to eat more fish, proteins, cut down on processed foods etc. They don't single out one kid, roughly 30 percent of this team are in the program. Some probably need to build up more mass and strength (gasp) and some pribably need to lower BMI.

And yes you are spinning.. and by the way body shaming doesn't work.. it's not effective.

no spin here , just wanted someone to clarify and you did. So according to you body shaming only occurs at certain ages and nutritional
Programs are not diets . Got it

 

[Midwestmommy]

Coachp my guess is that you are a male. If you actually do care to hear a new viewpoint different than your own, I suggest talk to some female coaches about this issue and why eating disorders are much more prevalent with girls than boys (with vulnerability in some certain populations/activities).

I don't think you actually had any interest in hearing my input or experiences, given your smart alecky response, but there are probably some females in your life who you know and respect who have ideas you might care about. I'm just an anonymous poster who you can easily ignore - no offense taken. I don't have too many friends who didn't know someone in college or high school who developed anorexia as teens. I knew three. One of them died of heat failure in her late teens.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Coachp my guess is that you are a male. If you actually do care to hear a new viewpoint different than your own, I suggest talk to some female coaches about this issue and why eating disorders are much more prevalent with girls than boys (with vulnerability in some certain populations/activities).

I don't think you actually had any interest in hearing my input or experiences, given your smart alecky response, but there are probably some females in your life who you know and respect who have ideas you might care about. I'm just an anonymous poster who you can easily ignore - no offense taken. I don't have too many friends who didn't know someone in college or high school who developed anorexia as teens. I knew three. One of them died of heat failure in her late teens.

I am well aware of eating disorders nor do I take them lightly. So your assumptions are way off base. I was simply asking a question and you automatically assumed that it was related to the op post for which it was not. I thought I was pretty clear. Talk about spin....

 

[Lunde]

I'm not sure that you really are understanding the issue here. Not sure either why you decided to bring up off-topic issues and questions unrelated to the OP? Of course the thread is focussed on helping OP navigate this difficult issue.

I am surprised that you don't see the slippery slope in a coach wanting to reduce the butt size of an 8 year old who is not overweight? Of course this is body shaming as a) weight loss is not needed and b) how could this even be achieved? It is likely genetic and spot reduction is not possible anyway and would cause a loss of muscle and power overall. It would also be body shaming to tell a low-BMI NCAA gymnast that she needs to make her butt/breasts/thighs "prettier" by dieting.

To be crude - if you look at the "Final 5" all of them have different butt shapes and sizes yet all of them were very successful gymnasts. So coaches who have very rigid body-shape requirements would have turned down an Olympic medalist! Note! I am not talking about overweight gymnasts at risk of injury at all but girls who have different genetics and muscle/fat distribution. The US team in recent decades has shown that you don't need to follow the Russian Ballerina/Romanian Waif model to succeed.

If you truly do not understand the effects that this sort of body shaming about their genetics can have on very young gymnasts please read/re-read Katelyn Ohashi's blog and diary excerpts regarding body shaming and disordered eating. That she was verbally abused for not having the preferred body shape for her gym and that the body shaming was relayed to her mother who instead of taking a stand against it colluded with the coach and reduced her food - which in turn led to a miserable existence and disordered eating patterns.
https://behindthemadnesssite.wordpress.com/2017/08/24/dear-standards/

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I'm not sure that you really are understanding the issue here. Not sure either why you decided to bring up off-topic issues and questions unrelated to the OP? Of course the thread is focussed on helping OP navigate this difficult issue.

I am surprised that you don't see the slippery slope in a coach wanting to reduce the butt size of an 8 year old who is not overweight? Of course this is body shaming as a) weight loss is not needed and b) how could this even be achieved? It is likely genetic and spot reduction is not possible anyway and would cause a loss of muscle and power overall. It would also be body shaming to tell a low-BMI NCAA gymnast that she needs to make her butt/breasts/thighs "prettier" by dieting.

To be crude - if you look at the "Final 5" all of them have different butt shapes and sizes yet all of them were very successful gymnasts. So coaches who have very rigid body-shape requirements would have turned down an Olympic medalist! Note! I am not talking about overweight gymnasts at risk of injury at all but girls who have different genetics and muscle/fat distribution. The US team in recent decades has shown that you don't need to follow the Russian Ballerina/Romanian Waif model to succeed.

If you truly do not understand the effects that this sort of body shaming about their genetics can have on very young gymnasts please read/re-read Katelyn Ohashi's blog and diary excerpts regarding body shaming and disordered eating. That she was verbally abused for not having the preferred body shape for her gym and that the body shaming was relayed to her mother who instead of taking a stand against it colluded with the coach and reduced her food - which in turn led to a miserable existence and disordered eating patterns.
https://behindthemadnesssite.wordpress.com/2017/08/24/dear-standards/

If you read through the entire thread (which is a lot at this point) you will see that the NCAA was brought up ny another poster. You will also see that I have already addressed your other assumptions.

 

[2gymmies]

So can I play devils advocate?!

What if a child was a bit softer than ideal and the child was super motivated and frustrated that she wasn’t learning skills that she was working so hard for? And assume that the parent was inexperienced and really didn’t know the implications of the child’s eating habits on her progress (like thinking, she does 3 hours of gymnastics, so she can eat whatever she wants and drink tons of Gatorade to not get dehydrated) - would that be an appropriate situation for the coach to say something? Or is there really never a time that would be appropriate?

I just don’t think it’s completely black and white...

 

[John]

Gymnastics, while the majority of its characteristics are good for kids, it does have its dark side. The dark side, in my opinion, will always exist. I can express why I feel this way with a formula, it is Newton's second law of motion, F=MA. To be a good gymnast your body must fit into the equation. Too much force will break the body down. Not enough mass equals not enough force. No enough acceleration not enough force. ETC.

 

[Mish]

So can I play devils advocate?!

What if a child was a bit softer than ideal and the child was super motivated and frustrated that she wasn’t learning skills that she was working so hard for? And assume that the parent was inexperienced and really didn’t know the implications of the child’s eating habits on her progress (like thinking, she does 3 hours of gymnastics, so she can eat whatever she wants and drink tons of Gatorade to not get dehydrated) - would that be an appropriate situation for the coach to say something? Or is there really never a time that would be appropriate?

I just don’t think it’s completely black and white...

This thread was in response to the OP whose daughter doesn't sound soft or behind in skill development. Giving general nutrition advice seems fine to me.

 

[QueenBee]

The OP has written 1 post and has never come back to clarify the original post so all of us reading the OP have to make a ton of assumptions in responding to it. We all read posts from other forum members through our own lens and experience. When I read the OP, my first thought was that there was no way the conversation, as described, happened in a vacuum. From my experience, I assumed the parent asked the coach about her child's progress (or lack thereof...as we were given absolutely no information about her child's skills/level). I also found it interesting that the parent described her child's BMI and six pack as indicative of her overall strength...which may or may not be accurate. I have seen lots of gymnasts over the years have a six pack who also have a weakness in their body's core that leads to injury. A six pack and BMI "on the low end of average" doesn't actually provide me any information about this child's gymnastics, their body type or their strength. All I can assume is that the child is not overweight.

So, I don't have enough information to really understand how the discussion started, what the coach's comments were in reference to, and whether the comment is actually relevant to the child's gymnastics or not. It is clear that the OP didn't like the comment and it is clear that OP doesn't think there will be any relevance to the child's gymnastics...but I don't know if that is accurate. I've heard a lot of parents over the years have a very inaccurate understanding of gymnastics and their child's abilities/motivation/skills to not automatically accept the situation as described. If this child has a build with narrow shoulders and more weight around her bottom/thighs - she may well be struggling with skills even with a six pack and normal BMI. She may also be struggling to make certain skills "look pretty".

After watching gymnastics for almost a decade, I have noticed that gymnasts who don't have a 'typical' gymnastic body types (either the 'Nastia' or the 'Shawn') often do seem to be penalized in competition. I don't know whether it is because 'non typical' body types make learning gymnastics harder or if the judges have a bias against gymnasts who don't embody one of the two most common body types we usually see, or if it is a bit of both. I do think it is important to realize/accept that gymnastics is judged aesthetically as well as athletically. As another poster said earlier in this thread, knobby knees can lead to deductions even if the gymnast is making their legs as straight and tight as possible. I don't envy coaches trying to navigate the minefield of parental expectations and understanding of this sport and each child's place within it.

I think there needs to be a relationship between parent and coach where both sides can communicate openly and honestly. I have seen almost every type of gymnast struggle against body type, size or other limitation at some point in their gym journey. I don't think it is body shaming for coaches to explain (to parents) what their child's limitations may be based upon these issues, especially if the parents don't understand how those issues may relate to their child's progress (or lack thereof). I've always appreciated when my child's coach has had conversations with me regarding my child's strengths and weaknesses. I know there are some skills my child will never have in her routines, because it won't matter whether she can do the skill, she cannot make it look pretty and effortless the way other gymnasts can (based in part on her body type, based in part on her specific mix of strength/balance). I know this because her coaches have told me so (and the reason why). And some of the skills my gymnast does that her teammates won't (because every single gymnast will have certain limitations...even at the very top - Simone Biles would never do a floor routine like Nastia Luikin's because Nastia's type of routine wouldn't show the best part of Simone's gymnastics and vice versa, and some of that definitely relates back to body type). Making gymnastics look beautiful and effortless is what makes it gymnastics. Gymnasts bodies are being subjectively judged against an "Ideal" every time they train and compete and anything that doesn't fit the ideal receives a deduction. That's the sport.

 

[BachFlyer]

Let's not spin it to obfuscate like the politicians and elected officials do to try to cover up bad behavior. It ain't rocket science.

Talking about body parts/shapes is body shaming.

Talking about nutrition, strength, sleep, adequate protein, take it easy on processed foods is fine. It's probably not OK if aimed at one particular kid, best to talk to a group.

Talking about an 8 year old's butt is abhorrent.

It's not that complicated. Advertising and social media images of women have a bad track record in the US (and unfortunately the last year has been awful). The gym should be a safe harbor for these amazing kids.

AMEN

 

[meganliz77]

I personally think the original post is fishy... and now we have 5 pages of responses. I think that might have been the OP's point since they haven't back on CB since they created the thread. But who knows....