WAG Confused about twisting direction

[tpMom]

This whole thread hurts my brain...

 

[John]

I became interested in this thread because it made me recall when she started at her current gym, during the first month, I saw two coaches video her many times. They would sit together, without her, and watch those videos over and over. After practice, she would say they were determining what direction she twisted, she was/is clueless about why it matters, my personality has to understand. I tried to figure it out on my own but I FAILED miserably then and still clueless.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I get absolutely none of this. My DD does front and back twisting, and she says that she prefers front twisting because back twisting is confusing to her! Ha! She has a punch front full on the floor but still gets twisted on the back half (pun intended). I’ve had a short course on twisting in T&T and absolutely none of it stuck!

 

[dbean]

Okay. This was not a great twist (twisted a little early, not tight) but here is a video of my DD who is a lefty. Hope it helps. .

 

[Mrs. Puma]

@Aero is very good at explaining this!

 

[trampolinemom]

A question for the ones with very well trained eye sight for twists, as mentioned earlier DS is a bit ambidextrous. Someone recently told me she thought in half in half out he twists the other way than in other twisting skills. I just can't see. Is this true ?


lots of twisting in this video

 

[sewgood]

I was a bit ambidextrous, and I often got "lost" in the air. I do think that's a risk when you can't figure out which side to be, instead of being a determined righty or lefty. Now mind you, this was a good 25+ years ago, but I did fall out of stuff because my air sense was not that great.

 

[Aero]

Help a guy out. I have read this multiple times, I think she is twisting to the right is that correct?

Your daughter executes her round-off with her left foot forward, which means the twist of the round-off is actually to the right. Her one and a half twisting layout is to the left. This is ideal technique as it will facilitate step-outs if she ever chooses to do them out of her twisting layouts. She checks out clean!

A question for the ones with very well trained eye sight for twists, as mentioned earlier DS is a bit ambidextrous. Someone recently told me she thought in half in half out he twists the other way than in other twisting skills. I just can't see. Is this true ?


lots of twisting in this video

Your son twists to the left consistently through every skill in both videos. He looks solid and consistent with his twisting technique. He checks out clean!

@Aero is very good at explaining this!

I have been summoned!

Okay, I'm going to be explaining ideal twisting technique. That is to say, the most efficient technique that pays the most dividends in the future when learning high level tumbling, and with the least amount of learning difficulty/blocks.

I am going to explain the ideal twisting directions for a gymnast who does a handstand with her left foot in front, and her right foot in back. For a right foot lead gymnast, just reverse everything. Simple!

1. Handstand - left foot in front
2. Front handspring/front walkover - left foot in front
3. Pirouette (dance) - left foot in front (left twist)
   
4. Cartwheel/aerial/round-off - left foot in front (right twist)
   
5. Front twisting - left twist
6. Back twisting - left twist
7. Blind half pirouette - left arm as post/pivot (left twist)
8. Half pirouette - right hand flips to post position (left twist)
9. Twisting 1/4 on pre-flight vaults - right twist to table, resulting in left hand first, right hand second, then left twist of table (Kasamatsu)

Now, a few important notes!

• The only tumbling skill that should not match twisting direction is the round-off. This is because setting for multiple twisting saltos will be much more difficult, as well as stepping-out of twisting saltos to go into another round-off. The kinetic flow of the body gets broken up if the round-off direction matches the twisting direction of saltos. The 1/4 on pre-flight vaults can be directly correlated to the round-off on floor; if the pre-flight twists left and the twist off the table is to the left, it is a Tsukahara vault. Conversely, if the pre-flight twists to the right, but the twist off the table goes left, it is a Kasamatsu vault.
  
• For back walkovers, it doesn't matter too much. In keeping with the above preferences, if the gymnast does the back walkover leading the kick over with her left foot, it will be prettier since it will be on the side of the better split, and thus have larger internal amplitude (bigger split angle). However, if executed by leading with the right leg, it will be more functional for acrobatic series on beam, since round-offs and aerials land with the opposite foot (right foot) in front.
• Jumps, leaps, and twisting jumps and leaps should prioritize the side with the best split, which is almost always the leading leg in tumbling. However, if a gymnast's jumps and leaps are opposite her tumbling preferences, it really isn't a big deal. Just utilize the side with the best split/flexibility to have the nicest execution and avoid deductions! Going further, certain leaps are best done on certain sides. For example, a tour jeté will twist right, and a switch half will twist left.
  
• A special exception exists for two special dance pirouettes: these are the Y turn/Memmel turn and the illusion turn. These turns both require full splits to be done well, and thus, should be executed on the side of the best split. However, this means the gymnast will have to twist opposite the direction they are used to. A Y turn/Memmel turn would start with the right foot in front, and the illusion (which can be thought of as the same exact skill as the Y turn, just upside down) will start with the left foot in front.
• Bar pirouetting, ideally, should be learned in both directions. This is so that the gymnast can pirouette back towards the center of the bar, especially if they have a pirouette-heavy routine. After all, there is only so much bar to travel across!

Now, as a reminder, this is all ideal twisting technique. That is to say, it is not the only twisting technique! MyKayla Skinner and Simone Biles come to mind as outstanders, both very successful international elites. MyKayla manages to step out into a round-off from a mismatched one and a half twist just fine, and Simone also round-offs with her left foot leading, yet is a right twister in her saltos! More than one way to skin a cat for sure!

I hope this was helpful to you all, and cleared some of the confusion out of the air. Please, if you have further questions, ask away!

 

[John]

@Aero Thanks for the explanation, I enjoy your coaching perspective. I see you are in region 7, where do you coach? Maybe we will see you this year at a meet.

 

[suebee]

Thanks, @Aero! I think I need to disgust that a little, and may have some questions after I do, but I appreciate the explanation!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

L

Help a guy out. I have read this multiple times, I think she is twisting to the right is that correct?

left

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I’m still not sure that I understand the above about frontside and backside either. My brain is hurting!

I guess my point of confusion was that I am pretty sure I have read that a gymnast should always twist the same direction. Maybe this is not actually the rule and this is why I am confused.

But the twisting definition means that twisting in a direction is different, depending on whether you are starting standing up or starting upside down, if you turn your shoulders in the same direction.

So maybe my more simple question is that will my dd have any problems if she roundsoffs left (which is twisting right), does a full twisting left, and does a handstand half pirouette twisting right? All of which get her shoulders twisting to the left, so to me, it makes sense to do it that way, but it seems to break the twisting in the same direction all the time rule.

Dd has not done any front twisting skills yet, as far as I know, so I don’t think that’s come up at all.

They should twist in the same direction .... but.... I have had kids do both and they didn't burst into flames

 

[skschlag]

My kid is a hot mess when it comes to lead foot and twisting. He manages. Once he hit optionals they have been able to capitalize on his mixed dominance. Every now and then he gets confused but now he is pretty solid in his directions. I have no idea which way he twists though.....

 

[Mr.mikes gymnastics]

I searched and read the threads about this, but I am still confused as a former gymnast who never made it to twisting!

My dd is what I believe is a gymnastics lefty. She roundoffs lefty (left hand down first), left leg front split is easier than right leg front split, BWO and BHS SO have left leg go over first. She does a full turn to the left on her left foot.

That being said, I think she’s probably more ambidextrous than most. I have seen her get her steps mixed up on the FHS vault and hurdle with her right leg (right leg goes up and then both legs go down together onto springboard) and she says this to her feels about the same as hurdling her usual way with her left leg up. Hurdling with the “wrong” leg didn’t really look much different for her.

She is working on twisting and half pirouettes on bars. She says the coach told all of them to twist which ever way is more comfortable for them. DD says she’s tried twisting both ways and they seem about the same to her, so she doesn’t have an obvious preference.

That being the case, it is unclear to me which direction it is “better” for her to twist. I read the past threads and some seem to indicate that left RO should twist left (meaning, I think, that you are turning counter clockwise) but others seems to indicate that a left RO is right twisting, so you should twist right.

I don’t know whether I am just getting the left/right twisting terminology mixed up, because to me, a left RO seems to twist left.

Can anyone help me clarify? Thanks.

that was me was a dancer so learn both ways. dove nationally gymnast st age 19 took up tramp. did a free space dominance test ( twisting) Dave Ross was my coach has several Olympic medalist on tramp rosie Karen, Matt. ran me through almost an hour of drills etc long story short. could figure out I was a right twister my whole career diving never twist more the full flipping everything 2 1/2. I told I feel in the pit of my stomach should twist left. he said fluid in your ears either goes clock wise or counter clock can't change. had sci C 3/4 said because of all neuro path ways develop made thing easier