Double back tucks help please!

[10.0]

I am learning double backs, I have done a ton of timers and backtuck to back on a trampoline. My coach says the back tucks are high enough and fast enough. I tried them into the pit today and I cannot get past going to my back. My coach says just tuck hard and pull and try as I might I just cannot get myself to do it. I don't feel afraid, it just feels like some connection my brain has with my body saying okay open now stop pulling and I can't get over it. Logically there is nothing to really be afraid of going into the pit, I guess the worst that could happen is you would land head first and not that that is good in any way but if that is the worst outcome it isn't that bad. Has anyone else experienced this either as a coach or a gymnast? What got you over it? We don't have a spotting belt and I am a bit big for hand spotting. The thing that I am finding the worst as that I always stop at my back. I am not so sure that drill was a good idea. Any ideas?

 

[gymdog]

Can you do a tsuk or yurchenko?

 

[triptwister]

Tough to second guess what to tell you without being there to see it. However, I agree with where gymdog is going with this. Without capable spotters who can force you around or without the use of spotting belts, then it helps to be double flipping using other approaches. Working on a tsuk related skill may give you an edge to overcome the double flip threshold. In other words it helps to be working on more than one type of double salto or 1 1/2 salto if you count vaulting as from the perspective of where the hands are on the take off.

Try working on a barani in back out. That's a front flip with a half twist to a back flip all in mid air.

If you can involve a spotter to give you a push on the second flip then it would help insure a safer landing. You do not want to settle into the pit upside down. It is important to be rotating past the upside down position.

Another approach is to modify the double back. You can do a layout or high whip on the first flip and a tight pike or tuck on the second flip. The thinking is that its hard to open up and land on your back when you are piking in or tucking in to rotate a second flip. In a tucked double back you are already balled up and the second flip is just an extension of the first flip. Which makes it easy to want to open up especially if your flip is slowing down during the second rotation. But if you are changing positions going from a more open angle to a more closed angle then your flip will speed up as you go into the second flip. Your reflex will be to hang on instead of letting go.

Or just pull your second tuck in tighter and speed up the second rotation. Think of flipping the second rotation over so fast that there is no way that you will have time to let go because you will be too far over.

Head position can affect what happens. If you are tipping your head back then your mind will think that you are further than you really are. Hence you open early. Or if your flip is opening to a wider angle instead of closing to a tighter angle due to your head going back then your reflex will be to let go or open. It is better to make sure your head is in going into the second rotation. Even better is to have your head in or neutral all the way around. I can tell you that many advanced gymnasts spot the floor on every rotation they do. But they do it mostly without the head going back very much. Its more of a neck crease than a head shift.

 

[10.0]

Thanks guys, I am not an artistic gymnast, I did some as a kid but stopped at a handspring vault. I am doing this for trampoline. I did try the baraini in back out and it scared the jeebies out of me, I also did that to my back and didn't pull. I am going to try the different shapes and watch the head position and report back. Pulling seems to be the hard part for me, I feel like I use the trampoline to initiate flips, like the push from my feet and I feel like my feet need to hit before another flip. Does anyone have any good pulling drills? Even simple stupid ones? I have trampolines, a tumble track, a pit, a double mini trampoline and most everything else you might find in a gymnastics club minus any spotting equiptment. Thanks so much!

 

[gymdog]

Okay so what you want to do is just basic tsuk/yurchenko drills (don't need the actual vault). Start with timers, so put a board or harder mat (like a panel mat) in front of a pit, resi, or 8 inch mat stack. Make sure it's soft enough. Then you'll do a roundoff with the hands on the board or mat and "miss" your feet to scoop through to your back. When you get comfortable with that, get a large cheese/wedge mat and put it in front of the pit. Do the roundoff and miss your feet, then try to do it and pull into a flip. This is less than a double back, obviously, but it is what the end part feels like.

 

[10.0]

Thanks I will try that drill! I actually pulled off the double back today but it must be pretty scary looking or awful as I did it twice and then was not longer allowed to. Coach said first flip is too slow and second doesn't pull tight enough. I am used to kicking out of the back tuck so it feels natural to slide open. I was kind of bummed though because how is it going to get better if I can't keep trying and making corrections. Oh well drills are always good and maybe I need to prove myself a little more so the coach has more confidence in me.

 

[CoachGoofy]

Can you do a cody yet? Those require pull.

We were insane in my day and did 3/4 back-cody pull through to back-pullover, in addition to the back tuck to back-pullover. After a few of those, you want to do the double.

 

[triptwister]

Great suggestions, CoachGoofy.

Practice open tucks where your arms stay over your head the whole way around. Do not let them come in or down. When you are ready then 3/4 of the way around tuck in tight for the second rotation. Hang on to your legs and don't let go. Tuck by bringing your legs in from down and behind into a forceful knee lift up and over your chest.

Do not think of this as a double back. Think of it as a open tuck timer to a mid air single back flip, Ride the first flip like you are coasting. Then as you coast around get ready to do the REAL BACK TUCK.

The timing is slow-fast. Ride then flip. Ride around in a hook then kip in for the tuck. The tuck being the second flip but its really the first flip in your mind.

In other words the first half is a set up for the flip. The flip comes after the open position. Get it?

All the action is on the second phase. The first 3/4 is just a set up.

 

[guppiegirl]

I would reccomend never letting your tuck open, until you're positive you've gone around twice.

 

[triptwister]

I just want to clarify that based on guppiegirl's comment I wish to emphasize that the drill I suggested is qued to a specific gymnast who is trying to overcome a mental block. I would not normally teach a double back using the open-close concept.

Additionally, what makes this technique "open" is that the arms are kept overhead during the first rotation. I am not asking the gymnast to open up from a closed position. This would be counter productive. guppiegirl may have misunderstood.

This is a teaching technique I am borrowing from double layout back timers where the gymnast is taught to flip the first rotation with the arms overhead so they will have the ability to shorten their radius on the second layout and speed up and have "pull" to draw upon for the second rotation. This principle works just as well on tucks as it does on layouts.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

blah, blah, blah..........stretch!