WAG Falling on butt on purpose

[Deleted member 14190]

But what if she gets hurt that night or the next due to fatigue? I respect your results but is this really advice that you want to give to young, potentially inexperienced coaches? Personally, I am unwilling to do it for them and believe in natural consequences. I also believe that 11:45pm at night in the gym because a child is not making corrections has gone too far...this is supposed to be fun.

I would agree if it was a high level skill, but it was an easy correction and just a stubborn kid. Problem solved.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

or- I do this on occasion, "Suzie, workout ends at 7, so you come back to floor at 7 and we will get your 3 routines done, but you are not leaving until they are done". Pretty much a guarantee that mom and dad won't find her silliness entertaining at that point. Problem solved.

love it as a mom

 

[needcoffee]

I personally do not know any parents who would be cool with ther kid staying at gym until 11.45pm.......

 

[MILgymFAM]

I personally do not know any parents who would be cool with ther kid staying at gym until 11.45pm.......

The thing that gets me is that I wouldn't allow it. I know coach runs the gym, but I run my child's life (for now) and it would be my job to put a stop to that. Dinner, homework, shower, sleep- all these things happen in the evening after practice and gym doesn't get to trump any of them. I guess I'm surprised a parent would allow it to go that long, and also surprised that a parent who let it go on that long wasn't enjoying it.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

The thing that gets me is that I wouldn't allow it. I know coach runs the gym, but I run my child's life (for now) and it would be my job to put a stop to that. Dinner, homework, shower, sleep- all these things happen in the evening after practice and gym doesn't get to trump any of them. I guess I'm surprised a parent would allow it to go that long, and also surprised that a parent who let it go on that long wasn't enjoying it.

well, it's not like I said, "hey lets stay until 11:45". I thought it would take 5 minutes! Dad was there from the beginning and was annoyed (thats the point), but by the end he wasn't about to let her leave either. He also thanked me for years after that, so unless you are present you really don't know how or what is going to happen or how you will react. And obviously how the coach is handling it is a key factor. I am always very calm and somewhat passive, (I am prepared to stay as long as it takes to make you better, is my attitude). That was also the most extreme case I have ever had.... So again, it's all about intent, delivery and results.

 

[gymdog]

I just don't have time for that. Unless the Olympics are the next month, I just don't see what the difference is if the kid is that unwilling. My two top kids were extremely difficult when they were younger, I just adapted and now have a practice structure where crime doesn't pay. Everyone needs a break here and there, sometimes people expect kids to do things they wouldn't expect adults to do like work a 12+ hour day with minimal breaks (school and gymnastics).

But, I'm glad it worked for you. Just not a coaching strategy I can emulate or endorse.

 

[my4buffaloes]

My kid has had to stay late before. Usually I let them. One time I stepped in because it was obvious that insisting my kid stick a standing back tuck as a brand new optional was not going to happen. After 30 or so tries and it looking like she was going to seriously get hurt I stopped it. You don't know what you would do if you haven't been in that situation before.

 

[MILgymFAM]

My kid has had to stay late before. Usually I let them. One time I stepped in because it was obvious that insisting my kid stick a standing back tuck as a brand new optional was not going to happen. After 30 or so tries and it looking like she was going to seriously get hurt I stopped it. You don't know what you would do if you haven't been in that situation before.

I've been in the situation before so I do know what I would do. Once I allowed her to be kept after, but it was a Sunday morning and not till nearly midnight. Once I didn't allow it, despite it being a Sunday afternoon, because it was clear that the coach was angry and my DD was frustrated and upset and there would be no progress or even meaningful communication. I can't imagine any situation where I would allow her to be kept till nearly midnight. I haven't even let school work keep her up that late.

 

[Aussie_coach]

My kid has had to stay late before. Usually I let them. One time I stepped in because it was obvious that insisting my kid stick a standing back tuck as a brand new optional was not going to happen. After 30 or so tries and it looking like she was going to seriously get hurt I stopped it. You don't know what you would do if you haven't been in that situation before.

That is a real worry that you as a parent had to be the one to step in and say "look this is not longer safe". This should be something obvious to the coach. You are paying for quality training from someone who should be well aware of the dangers and be actively working to prevent them. If you had to stop your child from being hurt in this situation, what else is goi g in in their class?

After 30 attempts at a new skill trying to stick the landing, it needs to stop. The gymnast will just get continuously frustrated and this is going to make it harder not easier. Dismounts and landings put more pressure on bones and joints than other skills and the risk of repetitive stress injury is high. Also what happens if she does stick it once, t isn't enough to actually train the muscle memory anyway. All the failed attempts are training the muscle memory in the wrong way instead. This type of exersice is both pointless and detrimental.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I had a gymnast until exactly 11:45 pm one night .... From that day on she made the correction.

This brings me to think about what our role as a gymnastics coach really is? Gymnastics is not school, there is no law requiring them to be there, it is not a job and they are not being paid to complete these tasks. Not making the correction is not illegal and won't land them in the criminal justice system.

So should we force them to do something they really don't want to do?

I always tell the kids once they reach the team level that they need to know that they will never be forced to do something they don't want to do. Sure I will encourage them, sure I will cajole them. There might be consequences for nit doing it such as not being able to move onto skills if conditioning is not completed, or not being allowed to attempt a new skill if the drill is not done successfully, or not being allowed to compete a skill they haven't stuck in practice.

But in all these situations a gymnast can still say no.

If my gymnasts are scared I want them to be able to say "I don't feel ready". Fear is a very important response from the body that tells us they need to do more drills first. Sometimes their mood and focus are off that day and that is okay too, we all have those days and it does affect the safety of what they are doing.

But if we force the, we teach them they must obey all directives without question. They will throw that skill they aren't feeling ready to do and get hurt, because the coach said they have too. But we also set them up for larger problems in the long term. Our gymnasts look up to us as coaches for an example for the real world.

 

[needcoffee]

Not to mention at that time of night you're just asking for fatigue related injuries....

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I just don't have time for that. Unless the Olympics are the next month, I just don't see what the difference is if the kid is that unwilling. My two top kids were extremely difficult when they were younger, I just adapted and now have a practice structure where crime doesn't pay. Everyone needs a break here and there, sometimes people expect kids to do things they wouldn't expect adults to do like work a 12+ hour day with minimal breaks (school and gymnastics).

But, I'm glad it worked for you. Just not a coaching strategy I can emulate or endorse.

I hear ya, she was about 14 and It was about 10 years ago. Now if I do stay with a kid, (which is rare these days) they get done pretty quick, because they all know this story. Most of the time, i just tell them that they are going to come back at "home time" to finish and they amazingly finish right there and then.

This brings me to think about what our role as a gymnastics coach really is? Gymnastics is not school, there is no law requiring them to be there, it is not a job and they are not being paid to complete these tasks. Not making the correction is not illegal and won't land them in the criminal justice system.

So should we force them to do something they really don't want to do?

I always tell the kids once they reach the team level that they need to know that they will never be forced to do something they don't want to do. Sure I will encourage them, sure I will cajole them. There might be consequences for nit doing it such as not being able to move onto skills if conditioning is not completed, or not being allowed to attempt a new skill if the drill is not done successfully, or not being allowed to compete a skill they haven't stuck in practice.

But in all these situations a gymnast can still say no.

If my gymnasts are scared I want them to be able to say "I don't feel ready". Fear is a very important response from the body that tells us they need to do more drills first. Sometimes their mood and focus are off that day and that is okay too, we all have those days and it does affect the safety of what they are doing.

But if we force the, we teach them they must obey all directives without question. They will throw that skill they aren't feeling ready to do and get hurt, because the coach said they have too. But we also set them up for larger problems in the long term. Our gymnasts look up to us as coaches for an example for the real world.

yes, but this thread has nothing to do with throwing big skills etc... It's clearly about laziness or being stubborn, or silly in this case. So lets not mud the topic.

 

[gymcoach1]

Just a little update, this morning at practice I explained to her that it wasn't safe for her to be doing backhandsprings like that anymore and I set up stations for her work on her landings and snapping down the right way from a back handspring.... she went off did her stations and fooled around the whole time. Towards the end of floor I told the girls they could do back handspring back tucks if they got all their work done. When she heard this all the sudden she started doing the drills perfectly and asked if she could show me it on the floor. bam two perfect backhandsprings stuck. right away asks.... can i do back tucks now???? (already has it by herself). I told her I can't let someone who falls so frequently do a hard skill like that and that she would have to prove to me that she can consistently stick it. Then she proceeded to do about ten perfectly stuck in a row. Ughhhhh kids!!!

 

[gymdog]

Just a little update, this morning at practice I explained to her that it wasn't safe for her to be doing backhandsprings like that anymore and I set up stations for her work on her landings and snapping down the right way from a back handspring.... she went off did her stations and fooled around the whole time. Towards the end of floor I told the girls they could do back handspring back tucks if they got all their work done. When she heard this all the sudden she started doing the drills perfectly and asked if she could show me it on the floor. bam two perfect backhandsprings stuck. right away asks.... can i do back tucks now???? (already has it by herself). I told her I can't let someone who falls so frequently do a hard skill like that and that she would have to prove to me that she can consistently stick it. Then she proceeded to do about ten perfectly stuck in a row. Ughhhhh kids!!!

That is perfectly fine. So every time you go to any event you structure it like that. She must pass each section perfectly. Make sure to have lead ups and drills for the back tucks that have to be passed as well (I.e jump to candlestick, spotted back tuck, back tuck on trampoline). I definitely would not just move to RO BHS BT.

Again, set it up like this for everyone and crime doesn't pay. For example I would come to the event and have the kids doing something like snap down back handspring or power hurdle tumbling, some sort of drill. They would show me and then move on. I don't do the "everyone line up in a corner and repeatedly do your routine tumbling." It's boring and leads to this kind of thing. Change it up and have several complexes or drills stations for back and front tumbling, any child who is excelling at their level tumbling moves on.

 

[gymcoach1]

That is perfectly fine. So every time you go to any event you structure it like that. She must pass each section perfectly. Make sure to have lead ups and drills for the back tucks that have to be passed as well (I.e jump to candlestick, spotted back tuck, back tuck on trampoline). I definitely would not just move to RO BHS BT.

Again, set it up like this for everyone and crime doesn't pay. For example I would come to the event and have the kids doing something like snap down back handspring or power hurdle tumbling, some sort of drill. They would show me and then move on. I don't do the "everyone line up in a corner and repeatedly do your routine tumbling." It's boring and leads to this kind of thing. Change it up and have several complexes or drills stations for back and front tumbling, any child who is excelling at their level tumbling moves on.

Yes they are working drills for back tucks they didn't just go straight into it. I definitely like the idea of setting up other stations during routine tumbling to keep them into it and also help improve their technique. Thanks again for all the help!