Fast-tracking to Elite - Pitfalls or red flags to look for?

[cher062]

Well the goal of doing gymnastics isn't makeing the Olympic team. Look at the 2008 team 6 girls and 3 alternates. That's it from the whole country of girls taking gymnastics that had a chance to make that dream come true. How many girls and boys out there are taking gymnastics - ALOT!! Just in my state alone. What are the odds you would make it - Slim to none. So do we say well you'll never make it to olymics so why bother? Of course not no more than we would tell a child you won't make it to a pro baseball team so don't play Little League or a tell a child you can't take dance lessons because you'll never make it to a major ballet company. Do we stop all the soccer teams because they will be lucky to make it to the local regionals and won't make the world cup team? Do we stop kids from taking Karate because they will never be a "Karate Kid"? Of course not they love doing those sports and as a parent we want them to experience as much as they can including not being the best at something but loving it just the same.

My DD loves the sport!!! She will never be at the level of an olympian but My hope and hers at this point is she is good enough to make a High school team in 2 years and then maybe get a college scholarship with it.


No olympic dreams other than to someday go and see the olympics in person (another slim to none goal since my money tree died years ago, but one that is more realistic).

Gymnastics should first and formost be done because it is enjoyed and is FUN for those who are doing it regardless of if they have talent for the sport. There are so many that will never make it out of a rec class never mind a team and LOVE what they can do and feel a sense of accomplishment. You don't just push them aside and say you have no talent you need to get out of the way and quit so the talented people have more room. And who know where that 10yo girl who is struggleing on a cartwheel on beam will be in 5 years. She might just be the one that does make it you just never know.

Just for the record the gyms can only recommend who they would like to go elite because that is their job to evaluate gymnastic skills just like in the thousands of other sports out there but in the end the parents will make the final decision on if their child will be elite or not. Just like any other opportunity that may come up for their child.

 

[AGM78910]

Australia?

And how did the Australians do in the last Olympics with this system in place?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

they did okay. their downfall was lack of money [government supported] and a couple of key injuries. they seem back on track though.

 

[MdGymMom01]

Well the goal of doing gymnastics isn't makeing the Olympic team. Look at the 2008 team 6 girls and 3 alternates. That's it from the whole country of girls taking gymnastics that had a chance to make that dream come true. How many girls and boys out there are taking gymnastics - ALOT!! Just in my state alone. What are the odds you would make it - Slim to none. So do we say well you'll never make it to olymics so why bother? Of course not no more than we would tell a child you won't make it to a pro baseball team so don't play Little League or a tell a child you can't take dance lessons because you'll never make it to a major ballet company. Do we stop all the soccer teams because they will be lucky to make it to the local regionals and won't make the world cup team? Do we stop kids from taking Karate because they will never be a "Karate Kid"? Of course not they love doing those sports and as a parent we want them to experience as much as they can including not being the best at something but loving it just the same.

My DD loves the sport!!! She will never be at the level of an olympian but My hope and hers at this point is she is good enough to make a High school team in 2 years and then maybe get a college scholarship with it.


No olympic dreams other than to someday go and see the olympics in person (another slim to none goal since my money tree died years ago, but one that is more realistic).

Gymnastics should first and formost be done because it is enjoyed and is FUN for those who are doing it regardless of if they have talent for the sport. There are so many that will never make it out of a rec class never mind a team and LOVE what they can do and feel a sense of accomplishment. You don't just push them aside and say you have no talent you need to get out of the way and quit so the talented people have more room. And who know where that 10yo girl who is struggleing on a cartwheel on beam will be in 5 years. She might just be the one that does make it you just never know.

Just for the record the gyms can only recommend who they would like to go elite because that is their job to evaluate gymnastic skills just like in the thousands of other sports out there but in the end the parents will make the final decision on if their child will be elite or not. Just like any other opportunity that may come up for their child.

EXACTLY!!!! Great post Cher!!! I remember right before the 2008 olympics, they interviewed the US team and asked them what their hardest skill to learn was and Shawn Johnson said "the kip!" She said it took her well over a year to learn. And look how well she did in her elite career. Wow--can you imagine if the coaches gave up on her because she couldn't master the kip as easily as some of her teammates when she was in Level 5???

 

[Mariainlv]

My previous question still stands. How does the current crop of elites -- Both Jr and Sr jive with the idea of not training elite until they can make this decision? And what age is that?

Looking around J's gym, there are 3 10-11 yr old L10s. 2 other girls who did very well @ nationals and will test elite this summer, one who already was and due to injury went back to L10. She is 15. First tested Jr Elite @ 13 and made the jr national team. She just happened to have a code of points skill named after her the other day

So is the idea of waiting what you think should be best or what is happening now as best practice?

Again, this is all theoretical for me since I have no practical application. Im just looking at data and I know people are more than that.

 

[gymjoy]

What about the late-blooming kid? Or the kid like Sacramone who doesn't start gym until 8yo?

I dislike the tracking because of it's limits. It says here are the ones who can, and here are the ones that can't. No one can really knows who can or will become an elite gymnast at age 4-6. It is just a guess. What about those girls you guessed wrong on who are not in the elite track system - and not getting the good coaching? You have now made certain they will not be an elite level gymnast, but they might have been your key to the gold medal.

I agree with you that not every coach is an elite level coach. The elite level gyms do train different than regular gyms. The focus is different. The up-training follows a different path. The way the coaches think is just different. The coaches are looking more forward, projecting where they can take the gymnast more than just if they can move up one level next season.

Here in the US becoming elite does depend on the elite-capable girls ending up at one of the handful of elite-capable gym. Sometimes it happens by luck. More often it is a decision made by the girl and their family because of potential and desire. Even in that small selection of elite-capable gyms some have much more success than others. However, all of them have teams that compete the level system, and all of the US National Team members have competed in that system.

We went to an event where Nastia Liukin was speaking. I remember her talking about how she repeated one the of compulsory levels (5 or 6, I don't remember) because she kind of stunk at it the first time. From there she skipped some levels to make the elite level around 12yo. I think this example can show that the level system allows a gymnast to compete and perfect basics until they are ready to move on. It is not"holding them back."

A good coach to me is not one that rushes the child into elite(or even up to the next level), but makes a plan for the gymnast and is willing to tweak it when needed - either faster or slower - depending on what's happening with that gymnast.

 

[MdGymMom01]

I think the real answer is that there is "no real answer" or "formula" to follow when getting to elite. What worked for one athlete may not work for another. And then you have the different coaching styles to factor in. I guess the best way is to take it year by year and monitor as you go. As Shawn said earlier, there are many roads to Oz meaning that there are many paths to elite which are often unknown untill hindsight is looked at after the fact.

 

[emandelsmom]

Training in the state where we live there in't that many training centers. Most are small and family owned. My duaghter has been taking for years. She loves the sport. She talks about going to the Olympics. Is this reality? No. But it is her dreams.

She has trained with the same coaches since she started at 3. She has been training with the same girls for years.They are all like family to her. Her goal is to be just like her coach. Compete. Win. Go to college. When she turns 16 she wants to work for her coaches. She wants to eventually own and run her own gym.

For the first time ever, she will work with different coaches when she goes to camp. It will be a change for her. She is headed to the LSU camp in a few weeks. A new experience for her.

Realistically, would it benefit her to try to achieve Elite level and living in the gym in the state we live in? no. We would have to uproot the whole family and move out of state for a slight chance if she had the skills. Why do that to her when you can see there is no chance of that? Does that mean we stop her from doing the sport? Heck no. She has learned so much from doing this sport. Everyone here knows that the scores in this state are elevated. When the girls go to regionals from the bigger gyms here, they can't compete and score that well. There isn't anything we can do about it. That is how it is run here. Keeps the money flowing into the state's usag system. Our coach takes the girls out of state and they get a better perspective.

So to answer a question, I don't think it is right to decide on an elite track at an early age and commit a six year old to it. Let all the girls dream big. It gives them something to strive for and work hard through all the struggles of learning a new skill, stretching, etc.

Let the parents handle the reality. Who would want to work at a sport if you knew you were considered to be a lesser athlete if there was a standard elite track and regular track? The girls dreams are what help push them. They all strive for gold. They wouldn't do the sport if they didn't.

 

[Stretchsportguy]

The time is ripe. Money can talk louder than words if you put it where your mouth is. Lets pay the committees and research teams that need to be founded to do the studies and write the statistics in stone. As you can see from this thread this country has no idea what its talking about. Neither does it know what its doing. Its all a hodge podge and helter skelter is how we win gold medals.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

I am just going to share what I know from my 5 year old and our gym. At 3 she was pulled from her regular class and put in a invitation class. (Only 3 year old in her class) She did just fine and passed everyone up skill wise. She was held at that level because the teacher felt she was too immature to move onto the next level of invitation only class. Finally the teacher let her do a trial move up at 4 and she did a fantastic job ( I could have told you she was bored out of her mind but what do I know...)Now at 5 she has all of her level 4 skills and some of her level 5 skills. This is all done in a preschool class at only 3 hours a week. We are not told by any stretch of the imagination that our girls in this class will be elite gymnasts or even go on to do level 4. This is just an opportunity for these girls to go at a pace that is suited for them. We have different levels of skill in this class too so it works. Our girls are having fun, are learning and are not bored. They don't go excessive hours and are still learning quickly. The gym is doing something right.

 

[Pickle's Mom]

As you can see from this thread this country has no idea what its talking about. Neither does it know what its doing.

Oh, bull! The parents on this thread are not representitive of this country and, while I fully appreciate Dunno's and Geoffery's insights and contributions, they are not either. This is a site to share ideas, find support, and get questons answered. While there are some very experienced coaches and parents, we are NOT the USAG, so to expect us to have answers or even deeply productive conversations on these topics is ridiculous.

The fact is that the US has, in the past decade, consistently produced champions with our system. The fact is, due to our geographic size, population, and socio-political culture, what works in other countries doesn't necessily work here. And the fact is that many parents (including myself) think our little gymmies might lead a better life by not training for the olympics BECAUSE they have so many other opportunities in this country.

 

[gymjoy]

The time is ripe. Money can talk louder than words if you put it where your mouth is. Lets pay the committees and research teams that need to be founded to do the studies and write the statistics in stone. As you can see from this thread this country has no idea what its talking about. Neither does it know what its doing. Its all a hodge podge and helter skelter is how we win gold medals.

You know what talks louder than money and words - results.
I would say that the US gymnastics world is doing very well. Tons of girls and boys participate in Gymnastics at many different levels. The International Elite girls on the National Team bring home lots of trophies and medals from competitions around the world. No system is perfect, but this system is working. Should it be constantly looked at and tweaked - sure. Should we move to a program such as Australia or China. NO!! Last I looked we were doing as well as or better than most of the gymnastics world.
And just because you can label things with statistics does not mean that it really works for everyone - or anyone.

I am so tired of your post. They make very little sense. As far as I can tell you are the only one who does not know what they are talking about. And I for the life of me can not figure out what you are doing on this message board. All I can think when I read your post is, to quote from Harry Potter, "Troll in the Castle!!"

 

[ginnymac]

Good post, Pickle's Mom!!

 

[Pickle's Mom]

Have you ever considered that we are born to swim...concensus dictates that the optimal age to start babies is between six months and 12 months old...

This makes no sense either. We are not born to swim. If we were, we would have gills and fins.

Consensus does not dictate the optimal age to start babies on training in swimming 6-12 months. I defy you to bring up one reputable source that says that. The consensus is that water safety is an important skill to teach babies (because we are NOT born to swim), parents should start this as early as possible, and 6-12 months is the earliest that this should be done (although the AAP is revising that downward to 3 months).

Drowning is the second leading cause of deaths of toddlers in the US (after car accidents). If we were born to swim, that wouldn’t happen. But since we are not, it is essential that we train our babies not to panic when their face hits the water and to float their faces upward and reach to safety. I did it with my kids at 6 months. And it wasn't so that they could be in the olympics, or even so they could swim strokes (which they didn't learn until much later).

 

[Stretchsportguy]

I just got off the phone with Kristin Goffman at the Natural Drowning Prevention Alliance who is a Founding NDPA Board Member...I called her cell phone at 951-712-2009
2010 Symposium Co-Chair
Injury Prevention Consultant
Goffman Services
NDPA: (951) 659-8600
Cell: (951) 712-2009
[email protected]

She explained that there are talented instructors who teach infants virtually straight out of the womb. That being said, she also said that they hold official policy to what the American Academy of Pediatrics decides based on solid research. The AAP is issuing a statement within days saying that they recommend swimming lessons starting from the age of 1 year old with some disclaimers based on personal preferences and family history. Look up AAP.org and enter preventing drowning in the search box.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

This thread is right on the edge of being locked; I'll let it continue for the time being, but please keep things civil.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

My previous question still stands. How does the current crop of elites -- Both Jr and Sr jive with the idea of not training elite until they can make this decision? And what age is that?

Looking around J's gym, there are 3 10-11 yr old L10s. 2 other girls who did very well @ nationals and will test elite this summer, one who already was and due to injury went back to L10. She is 15. First tested Jr Elite @ 13 and made the jr national team. She just happened to have a code of points skill named after her the other day

So is the idea of waiting what you think should be best or what is happening now as best practice?

Again, this is all theoretical for me since I have no practical application. Im just looking at data and I know people are more than that.

hi there, and if you are from las vegas, and you are referring to asi peko as the jr., we want you to know personally, in the event that you might be her mother or relative, THAT MY WIFE AND I LOVE AND ADORE ASI.

 

[AGM78910]

I think Stretch would be comfortable with the Chinese system where the child is picked at an early age to go to the Olympics and that's that...no say from the parents; barely sees the parents, just coached and trained to win Olympic gold ...but as the parent of a gymnast who has done elite, was a TOPS team member, and now is back at level 10, I can say that I am happy to have a say in my child's future...I don't really know where Stretch is going with this whole tangent and I don't think that TOPS means that the tiered system needs to be superceded as he implies...the TOPS program is a good strength and conditioning program and a huge money maker for USAG but kids who do TOPS have no guarantee for success just because of that.

Dunno: I thought you made a lot of excellent points about the number of gymnasts in this country and the # who even make it to Level 10 and elite.

This is our system and it works quite well. Wonder why Stretch is here in the first place to coach if he thinks the system is so bad. Glad he is not coaching my kid.

 

[Stretchsportguy]

We live in the post Bela era...things improved a little during that time. Lets not stop now. Solid research is the next step. And I want to make sure people are fired up to pay for it. Like Nike says..."Just do it" Without measurements we can only approxi-mate reality and feel lucky that for now that it has been in our favor...but if we think we are doing something right out of luck then we certainly cannot say what it is because we haven't proved it with research. Open up your wallets and lets let money talk.

 

[Linsul]

I am just going to share what I know from my 5 year old and our gym. At 3 she was pulled from her regular class and put in a invitation class. (Only 3 year old in her class) She did just fine and passed everyone up skill wise. She was held at that level because the teacher felt she was too immature to move onto the next level of invitation only class. Finally the teacher let her do a trial move up at 4 and she did a fantastic job ( I could have told you she was bored out of her mind but what do I know...)Now at 5 she has all of her level 4 skills and some of her level 5 skills. This is all done in a preschool class at only 3 hours a week. We are not told by any stretch of the imagination that our girls in this class will be elite gymnasts or even go on to do level 4. This is just an opportunity for these girls to go at a pace that is suited for them. We have different levels of skill in this class too so it works. Our girls are having fun, are learning and are not bored. They don't go excessive hours and are still learning quickly. The gym is doing something right.

I agree with the method and goals of this program. Faster paced, low time investment, personal result oriented is fantastic in my book. I think the real question is not regular comp vs elite track, but gymnast selection for invite only programs. If lines, strength, and coordination is there at a young age, it would seem best to let them grow into an elite future than dictate it for them. I would wager selection for a group like this is more productive in development of the sport than a slickly marketed elite track option.