WAG Interesting article on the state of gymnastics coaching

[JBS]

Now start thinking...because here is where the conversation starts...

• Your club most likely has some really good coaches that knowhow to teach...pick them out. How much are they being paid...are they preschool or rec or team or what?
• Is a full-time preschool coach worth less than a full-time high level team coach? What if the preschool coach is what the article is looking for?
• Is your club paying all coaches a "living wage"? Are 20 hour per week coaches getting $20,000/year?...because after all...isn't that what you want?
• Don't you want a club full of true teachers?...remember...there is no college for gymnastics coaches in the US...there is no place to go to learn how to do this. If you want both...then you have to go to college to learn how to teach...and get experience coaching at the same time. Then once you graduate from college you have to realize that you will most likely get paid less to be a coach than if you use your degree.
• What you want takes time...it takes a long time...coaches must be mentored...coaches must be taught to teach.
• If you are not paying NEW / BEGINNER / ROOKIE coaches a living wage...they will WANDER AWAY FROM YOUR CLUB. They may do it physically by leaving or mentally by not doing what is needed...focusing on only what they see important.
• Look at the bottom right of Tony's blog and you will see the word vacilando.

Vacilando is a Spanish term for the act of wandering when the experience of travel is more important than reaching the specific destination.

Are you taking young coaches out of this state of "Vacilando" by paying them a livable wage? IS THE INDUSTRY?

BOTTOM LINE: The industry does not pay well enough to create enough "lifers". "Lifers" are the ones that you mentor. Many good young coaches "vacilando" right out of the sport...probably not using that term the right way...but you get it.

Let me know what you think? What is wrong with my thinking?

 

[munchkin3]

All teachers fall into this unfortunate category.

 

[JBS]

More fun from 2001...

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And more current...

http://work.chron.com/average-income-gymnastics-coaches-19380.html

http://www.salarylist.com/jobs/Gymnastics-Coach-Salary.htm

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You are basically looking at stats for highly experienced coaches.

 

[JBS]

All teachers fall into this unfortunate category.

More food for thought...

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You really do get what you pay for.

 

[JBS]

More...more...more...

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School teachers basically start where most gymnastics coaches would like to get to.

 

[my4buffaloes]

I have frequently heard that the Rec program supports the Team program so that the Team can be affordable. Just with the little bit I know, I can see how this would be the case.

 

[cbifoja]

Curious about something...and please know I am FULLY supportive of coaches getting a living wage...but I don't know a lot about what you all do other than when you are with my kid.

What does the average coach do in the gym other than coach? I know as a program director, you have a lot more responsibility than a team coach. But do team coaches have additional responsibilities off of the coaching floor?

At our gym, the team coaches walk through the door, put their stuff in their lockers, then go to the gym floor to coach. After class, then leave immediately. They might have a meeting once a month of so. But does coaching a team require other time other than that they spend with kids?

I understand that our HC has tons of stuff she does outside of actually coaching. She is always there for hours before we get there and is of course the last to leave with her arms full of papers/binders, etc. But I'm curious about the part time $20K coaches.

 

[my4buffaloes]

I am just a parent too, but I see our coaches fixing equipment, working on projects around the gym, etc. Also they put together plans for each group coming through every single day. Not only the groups but as the girls get up to the higher levels the gymnasts will have individual plans. These are not off the top of their head plans - very carefully thought out and planned out plans with long term goals in mind. I imagine the coaches spend as much time planning and learning as they do actually coaching. I am ok with this.

 

[Chalky]

It's hard when you have 25 years of experience in the sport, almost qualify for food stamps and the pre-teens you coach have a better phone than you.

 

[cbifoja]

I am just a parent too, but I see our coaches fixing equipment, working on projects around the gym, etc. Also they put together plans for each group coming through every single day. Not only the groups but as the girls get up to the higher levels the gymnasts will have individual plans. These are not off the top of their head plans - very carefully thought out and planned out plans with long term goals in mind. I imagine the coaches spend as much time planning and learning as they do actually coaching. I am ok with this.

Our coaches don't do that. Our HC/owner gives them all a schedule that she makes to maximize efficiency for equipment. But I never see the other coaches using any kind of lesson plans or referring to anything. I should say that I do see one coach do that and she is an older, experienced coach working with young comps. But even the older, experienced optional coaches don't ever refer to anything and sadly....neither do the junior coaches.

Again, I'm not criticizing. Just trying to understand their jobs more completely. I love our coaches and appreciate their work.

 

[profmom]

Based on the necessary level of technical skill, the responsibility they bear, and the consequences of poor execution of their jobs, most team coaches aren't getting paid anything remotely close to what their work is worth.

When my children are out there, they are putting their lives in the hands of their coaches. I am trusting their coaches to know when they can do something alone, when they need a spot, and when they can't do something, and the risks associated with a coach's drawing this line in the wrong place are catastrophically high. I am also trusting the coaches to mentor my children through learning extremely difficult lessons about focus, persistence, mental toughness, and fear -- the psychological skills involved are at a very high level. The most successful coaches in the gym strike me as very smart people with a lot of emotional intelligence.

I have a ton of respect for them, and I feel really bad when I see them taking out the trash and vacuuming the lobby. That's way below what should be their pay grade. Clearly, for all of them, they do what they do as a labor of love, and I have boundless respect for them for making this choice.

 

[Short Balding Guy]

JBS; Thanks for taking the time to put the links into the thread. Excellent stuff.

The problems are clear. What is your suggestion/thoughts for working on the problems?

Best, SBG -

 

[munchkin3]

our Full Time coaches work 7 hours per day M-S. They eat food in the corner.
1 Day off per week!
The part timers either have a side business, or are going to school......
I cant tell you how much respect I have for these people....It is truly a labor of love.

 

[JBS]

Curious about something...and please know I am FULLY supportive of coaches getting a living wage...but I don't know a lot about what you all do other than when you are with my kid.

What does the average coach do in the gym other than coach? I know as a program director, you have a lot more responsibility than a team coach. But do team coaches have additional responsibilities off of the coaching floor?

At our gym, the team coaches walk through the door, put their stuff in their lockers, then go to the gym floor to coach. After class, then leave immediately. They might have a meeting once a month of so. But does coaching a team require other time other than that they spend with kids?

I understand that our HC has tons of stuff she does outside of actually coaching. She is always there for hours before we get there and is of course the last to leave with her arms full of papers/binders, etc. But I'm curious about the part time $20K coaches.

This is where this all comes from...if you want them to be good...then you need them doing more. For the most part...they are not doing more...because they are paid to walk out the door.

In an outstanding program...they would be talking with you after practice...and they would all be able to answer the questions that you asked the same way that the head coach would...they would all be on the same page. In order to be on the same page...weekly staff meetings would be required at the minimum.

10% overage at the bare minimum to take notes and lesson plan...this is an extra 6 minutes per hour. For a newer coach...they need more time to do this...probably 20% overage per hour. They just don't know as much...they will need time to research.

In the sport of gymnasts learning is part of the job...you must pay them to do so. It's not like college...where you pay to learn...then score a job. Going to college...for the most part...get's you nothing more in the sport of gymnastics.

What if there are all of the sudden only 12 hours for a coach that normally has 20...they count on this money. Yah...if you don't keep them at 20...they are going to find another job.

The industry forces what you are describing.

 

[3rd_time_around]

GAgymmom, we just left a gym like that. Our new coaches call them "internet, or copycat" coaches. Basically, mothers who've had children in gymnastics and now are coaches. DD's New coaches have done gymnastics, have P.E. teaching degrees, years of experience coaching and other degrees associated with gymnastics. My dd has improved soooo much under their care!!! I KNOW my statement to be true. If it's true with me, then it's with so many others.

I'm trying to understand this, do you mean you left a gym that charged a lot of extra money, or a gym that is like ours, where there is never a question of where the money is going, because the owner details every fee? I wasn't sure which coaches are the copycat coaches, the 1st kind of gym, or the one like my dd's.

 

[motigymnasticsmom]

It's hard when you have 25 years of experience in the sport, almost qualify for food stamps and the pre-teens you coach have a better phone than you.

Hence, my pre-teen doesn't have a phone yet!!!! I'd rather pay the new coaches more and for her to have more hours and learn more gymnastics than a phone, especially an expensive one. When coaches are doing what they are supposed to and children are happy and progressing like they should because of good/best coaching well parents feel like they are getting their $$$ worth. My little Suzie may never make it up there, who knows what tomorrow may bring, but We'd rather have highly skilled coaching than a secondary coach. JBS, point taken, thanks for enlightening us today. Great article and even better "coaching".

 

[JBS]

JBS; Thanks for taking the time to put the links into the thread. Excellent stuff.

The problems are clear. What is your suggestion/thoughts for working on the problems?

Best, SBG -

There are pages and pages of exact details...but here it is very simply...

Don't complain about prices or price increases...feel free to inform me about actual issues...but remember...some fixes take 3 - 5 years.

I am working on this exact issue at our club...it is very hard.

On one hand...I can teach and coach fairly well...on the other...

1. I have a coach doing 48 roundoff drills from Youtube and actually teaching nothing...47 of them are being done wrong. The only one that the coach is doing right is the one that they are forgetting to monitor. Over the course of 15 - 20 minutes I could fix all of the stations by eliminating most of them and giving a FOCUS...one thing to work on within those roundoffs...but I would have to walk over there and help the coach out...I am coaching.
2. There is a preschool class jumping in the pit...the coach is young and they are doing it for FUN...what...skip FUN. You could have them use the pit for 101 different things that all would be teaching something...and all would be FUN. YOU DON'T TEACH FUN...YOU HAVE FUN! Most everything that you are teaching should be FUN...so I ask again...what are these kids learning by jumping into the pit. If you cannot tell me...you cannot use the pit...because you are not teaching...you are just letting time pass. Once again I could fix this...but I am coaching...so I don't have time to walk over and tell all the kids to climb in and get a RED cube...I don't have time to ask them what letter BLUE starts with...or how many sides a cube has. Come on...how about this info... Link Removed

Now...I'm coaching and I have two things on the other hand.

Solution...

How about a high level coach to take my spot...and then I go over and TEACH people to TEACH...yes...that is the answer...now look at the amount of money that you are paying to someone that is NOT working directly with the gymnasts...just teaching the coaches.

 

[mommyof1]

• The other $100,000 is the money that YOU spend on other stuff that involves gymnastics that I STILL CONTROL. That $1,000+ for summer camp that I am selling at every practice...those airline tickets to nowhere for $500+ a pop...how about the fact that I told you that your daughter is off team if she can't make the summer schedule so you have to hire an older nanny that you trust to drive???

On the whole, I think the gym tuition (I do not, however, refer to our booster club expenses, which are a whole other issue) we pay is quite inexpensive for the service we are getting. In principle, I would be willing to pay more for this service, but right now I can't really afford to because of your very last point--our household has two working parents, so we have to pay for child care in addition to gymnastics. Child care for a gymnast is at best wasteful (you have to pay for full-time after-school care when you only use it an hour a day) and at worst even more expensive than child care for a non-gymnast (hiring a nanny to drive the kid to practice). It seems like it would be a great business model for gyms to operate after-school care programs with transportation. Buy a van, get the necessary insurance and licenses, and pick the kids up at school and let them do homework in the party room until practice starts. This would be perfectly feasible at our gym, where most of the kids attend a handful of nearby schools. In fact, a nearby martial arts school has this exact type of program. During the summer, the van could drop the kids off at the local day camps after morning practice. I would be willing and able to pay for this service AND pay higher tuition if I could quit paying hundreds of dollars a month for child care that I barely use.

 

[mommyof1]

Solution...

How about a high level coach to take my spot...and then I go over and TEACH people to TEACH...yes...that is the answer...now look at the amount of money that you are paying to someone that is NOT working directly with the gymnasts...just teaching the coaches.

As a parent I would be happy to see my tuition dollars used in this way, and to pay more for it!

 

[JBS]

More food for thought....

Tumble Tracks amplify technical errors and make them easier for coaches to see.

What amplifies teaching errors?...

PRESCHOOLERS

Have all your coaches taught a good amount of preschool gymnastics?

I remember when I first started as a full-time coach and I was given my first schedule ever...I was 20...I had never even babysat before. There were over 20 preschool classes on my schedule. 12 of them were 3 year old classes.

I went on to become preschool director at this gym of over 500 preschoolers.

You ever walked home from the gym with a Patti Komara video and a six pack of beer at 9:30 pm so you could learn the wheels on the bus in front of your 20 something year old roommates? I taught myself to teach. Looked for problems and addressed them.

Do you do "Chicken Fat"...how about "Mousercise"...ever been on a bear hunt?

Do you understand that by putting a group of students "through the motions"...you are disabling their ability to learn. Just as a coach must know what they are teaching...the student must know what they are learning. What???...think about it...you'll get it.

Teach people to learn...and they will learn to teach.

Wow!...talk about a stream of consciousness.