WAG JO Nationals and NIT

[Natasha]

I would love someone toexplain why the qualifying to nationals keeps changing. It's always been top 7. Now this year some age groups are taking 8 or 9 and not because of ties. How is that fair? Are certain age groups special? Because if you take 9 from one age group, what about the girls that were 9th in the other age groups? Are they not worthy enough? Or one who placed 9th only gets to go to NIT and has to pay her own fee while another who placed 9th and gets to be on the team and her way paid plus all the apparel. It's not right! Then you have the group where they take 9 and 10th and 11th place go to NIT, but the other girls who placed 10th and 11th don't get to go. Can of worms!! It is going to (has already) caused a lot of bitterness and sadness.

They need to set a criteria and stick to it across all age groups. It's not right or fair to do otherwise.

Are the age groups that are taking 8th and 9th due to other regions not having enough girls that qualified? In Jr A there was only one girl in one of the regions, so region 8 won that age group last year, so 2 additional girls would get to go from Region 8 in Jr. A if I am understanding what was explained above correctly. So, based on what the rules state that were posted above, it is the top 7, but some age groups in some regions would get to take one or two additional gymnasts to cover the shortage in the other regions.
As far as fairness goes, I don't think gymnastics will ever be fair....For instance, because of the age group system, there are lots of girls with higher scores that don't get to go to nationals than some of the ones that do get to go in the less competitive age group. And, the difference between going and not going could be because your birthday was 2 days earlier than the cut-off for the next age group.

 

[txgymfan]

I know that the region that won the age group gets the first open spot left from other regions but then I think they rotate thought the regions based on regional team placement. So 6 open spots, First spot goes to Region 8 ,next to maybe Region 5, then 3 etc based on placement. At the same time it must be harder to score well when there is less competition and coaches who work with less gymnasts that level. In any judged sport there are a thousand things that are "not fair".

 

[3rd_time_around]

Well at least these explanations fill in the blanks. They should really explain these things before the competition so that the girls will know if their age group has extra spots. Cause I've seen tears over all this, and no one explains anything.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

Well at least these explanations fill in the blanks. They should really explain these things before the competition so that the girls will know if their age group has extra spots. Cause I've seen tears over all this, and no one explains anything.

I think this is the responsibility of the club/personal coaches.

 

[Natasha]

They may not even know ahead of time if extra spots will be available as the other regions are having their competitions at the same time. As the results come in from the other regions in the age groups then they find out but yes, they could explain the general rule so that girls and parents can understand why some age groups may have more girls than others.

 

[3rd_time_around]

I think this is the responsibility of the club/personal coaches.

See that's just it, they don't know either, I've asked. But they'd have to know before the meet starred or they would t have enough awards and tshirts. It's just too much mystery sometimes, why can't things be explained more clearly, like they are here?

 

[wandrewsjr]

JO's is a national competition. So USAG tries to make the age groups roughly an even size, based on all girls in the country. This means that, likely, age groups could vary wildly from region to region. So in a particular region it may seem unfair that 9 girls get to go(because there were extra spots from another region) from one age group and 7 from another, the goal is the that on a national level the same percentage of girls from each age group will be represented. I don't understand the tears, though. All the level 10's know going into the competition that they need to finish top 7 to guarantee a trip to Nationals. Some girls may get the happy news at regionals that their group got one or two extra spots from another region so the 8th and 9th girls get to go, but who does this make so sad?

 

[wandrewsjr]

Region 2 regionals were this weekend and there were 5 of the 8 L10 divisions have few than 7 girls in it. One division had only one girl period. One had 4 and three others had 6. We just don't have a lot of girls at that level.

One another note, the scoring for the L8 for this region was insane! There were 6 perfect 10s! 6!?!!?

Region 2 had 50 level 10's at their Regionals this past weekend, Region 1 had 203(there were girls with 37's that won't even get to go to NIT's). There is talk of moving Norcal to Region 2 to help balance the numbers. It's in the "survey" stage now, to see if clubs in Norcal would be open to it. It makes sense, the numbers are so wildly imbalanced.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Region 2 regionals were this weekend and there were 5 of the 8 L10 divisions have few than 7 girls in it. One division had only one girl period. One had 4 and three others had 6. We just don't have a lot of girls at that level.

One another note, the scoring for the L8 for this region was insane! There were 6 perfect 10s! 6!?!!?

Forgot to address the 10's issue. I am willing to bet they came in a state team competition session, not the regular level 8 sessions? Some regions hold state team sessions, and they are run like a college competition, complete with the cheering, team spirit, and high scoring.

 

[txgymfan]

I was a little off on who got to fill the alternate spots. Here is the official qualifying info form USA gym. http://r4qualifiers.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/jo-format.pdf

 

[coachmolly]

See that's just it, they don't know either, I've asked. But they'd have to know before the meet starred or they would t have enough awards and tshirts. It's just too much mystery sometimes, why can't things be explained more clearly, like they are here?

They don't know before each regional meet starts. They might have an idea of numbers and know their chances of getting an extra spot, based on their regions results last year, but I don't think anyone really knows how things are going to pan out until all of the level 10 regionals are finished, in this case that won't be until after next weekend when region 7 holds theirs. Though at this point I imagine most regions have an idea how many extras get to go and have in most cases identified who that extra is, but there are still some variables that are up in the air. There's also the question of who is going to be alternate, who goes to NIT, etc. Just a confusing system all around if you aren't one of the top 7 in your age group (or at least an alternate position). I would just work under the assumption that kids who don't finish in the top 9 or 10 in their age group won't be competing at JOs/NIT in any capacity, and if things work out in their favor based on other regions, it's a happy surprise.

ETA- I don't understand why Region 7 hosts 3 separate regional meets for levels 8-10. It might make scheduling a bit more flexible with less groups to get through, but with the way it's set up currently coaches have to travel to 3 different places on 3 different weekends which I imagine raises costs quite a bit for their respective gyms (or parents, or whoever pays coaches fees). Other regions of comparable (or larger) size are able to get through all 3 levels in 1 meet, it just seems a bit excessive not to at least combine 9 & 10.

 

[htimcj]

It was the team session. Still crazy to see those scores! The rest of the session were more "normal".

 

[3rd_time_around]

Tears because they're girls. Tears because they're young. Tears because they don't understand why 8 and 9 place in another age group gets to go.

Thanks for the link, very helpful.

 

[coachmolly]

Tears because they're girls. Tears because they're young. Tears because they don't understand why 8 and 9 place in another age group gets to go.

Thanks for the link, very helpful.

I can certainly understand the tears. There are some great gymnasts that miss out on JOs because they had a crummy meet at a bad time, or just happen to be in a super tough age group/region. I hope I didn't offend with my post as I definitely didn't mean to, just wanted to further convey that it is indeed a frustrating and confusing process for all involved and there are probably plenty of coaches who just don't know what is happening.

 

[Granny Smith]

ETA- I don't understand why Region 7 hosts 3 separate regional meets for levels 8-10. It might make scheduling a bit more flexible with less groups to get through, but with the way it's set up currently coaches have to travel to 3 different places on 3 different weekends which I imagine raises costs quite a bit for their respective gyms (or parents, or whoever pays coaches fees). Other regions of comparable (or larger) size are able to get through all 3 levels in 1 meet, it just seems a bit excessive not to at least combine 9 & 10.

There is no way Region 7 could get all 3 levels in one location for Regionals. They basically fill a weekend with each level as it is. Last weekend for L9, they have a Friday night session, went all day both Saturday and Sunday. This coming weekend they have 5 sessions for L10. It simply is not possible for Region 7 to host all 3 levels the same weekend and it's not like you can do them on the same weekend at different locations because the coaches needs to be present.

Oh and for L9 this past weekend, each session had approximately 50 gymnast in it. This coming weekend, each session averages about 50 gymnasts for the 10. Junior A alone for L10 have 45 gymnasts in it and they have to have their own session.

 

[coachmolly]

But other typically large regions (1, 3, 5) are able to at least fit 9/10 into one meet through good scheduling. It just seems excessive to me that Reg. 7 expects coaches to be in 3 different states, 3 weekends in a row.

 

[Granny Smith]

If they did it the same weekend (9s & 10s), the only way to fit it in would be to have both levels competing at the same time and logistically, not all gyms have enough coaches to be able to cover multiple levels at once.

 

[2gymmies]

We are in a bigger region and were able to fit 9s & 10s in the same weekend - 3 sessions on Friday, 4 on Saturday and 3 on Sunday. Each session had about 65 girls. Long weekend, but they fit it in. Also, there was one session that had both 9s and 10s - each group had 9s and 10s so there was no coaching conflict.

 

[Granny Smith]

Well, I can only image that the powers to be do not feel there is enough space and/or time to do it all in 1 weekend.

 

[coachmolly]

Well, I can only image that the powers to be do not feel there is enough space and/or time to do it all in 1 weekend.

Yeah, I'm mostly just curious as to why they chose to do it this way as it doesn't seem to be the most efficient/cost effective method. I'm sure there are reasons, I was just interested in knowing if anyone here knew what those were and stating that numbers alone couldn't have been the sole reasoning behind it. Not saying it's wrong, just wondering why they do it differently than ever other region.