Parents Judges : do they and can they hate your child and give them bad scores?

[Natasha]

she was old level 3 at that time. unfortunatly i cannot remember all the scores for the teamates at this time, but they were all pretty low as harldy anyone from my gym placed at that meet.

If the whole team was pretty low, then it is very likely that the judge was looking for something specific that your coach did not emphasize or even had the girls do differently than how the coach thought it should be done. I've seen this especially on floor- different coaches/judges interpret the text differently on certain dance moves or movements. I remember one judge deducting every single girl on our team .3 for some move that she interpreted differently than our coach. You will find that different judges will have certain things they look for. When my dd was in compulsories there was one judge that always gave her really high beam scores- this judge really liked everything on beam done on high toe, which is what my dd did, and so she consistently scored higher when this judge was judging even if she had other errors.

Judges are way to busy at competitions to try to figure out whose kids belong to which parents...unless you have approached a judge on the competition floor to question them (Which is a big violation!) I can't imagine judges penalizing a kid for a parent's appearance.

 

[gymdog]

There are variances in judging since there are things where you can take a minimum or maximum but for the most part judges don't really run an agenda. I don't want parents to get the wrong idea from this thread. The reality is that a low score indicates deficits in the routine. It sounds like in the OP's example, scores were lower across the board so I'm not sure how she concluded it could have anything to do with her appearance.

While .4 is significant, it's not that far out of range and if assume there was something going on like one judge giving a connection that the other didn't. At the compulsory level you would rarely see that discrepancy at that score range. It doesn't mean anything about the judge liking your daughter, it probably just means she was more lenient on something that happened to be an area of weakness in your daughter's routine such as split angle or rhythm or a certain connection, and the other judge decided not to fight it and get in range. Most likely happened across the board. And 9.2 can easily win an optional meet so that doesn't mean anything to me, 9.2 or 9.5 could have been the winner , the judges just went one way with it.

 

[wallinbl]

she was old level 3 at that time. unfortunatly i cannot remember all the scores for the teamates at this time, but they were all pretty low as harldy anyone from my gym placed at that meet.

This tells you it's not you or your DD. It's a difference in style/form/etc between the coach and the judge.

 

[krisnkids]

I'll never forget sitting at my dd's first meet in this state, old 4/new 3. My dd was on flight B of the vault while the parents around me their children were on flight A floor, so I watched quite a few of their dd's routines. They kept complaining on how low the scores were, how the judges had it out for their daughters and how they were going to have a chat with their coaches. My first thought was how incredibly bad they represent their gym with behavior like that. Second thought upon watching their daughters, no one had tight bodies, no pointed toes, nothing was finished. One girl went to do a robhs with a spot, the coach was a good 5 feet away when she threw the bhs, the girl landed on her neck, got up, saluted, and got a 7.1. The parents complained again. I moved seats.

 

[raenndrops]

As said before, it is about what the judges focus on. We have gotten to know certain judges proclivities.
Ex. On vault, Judge A takes MAX deductions for the slightest pike... and is more generous when judging ANYTHING BUT a Handspring at L6 - L7 and Xcel Gold and Platinum... Judge B is more lenient on slight pikes, but dare to arch AT ALL and she takes MAX deductions.
On Beam, Judge C is all about connections. A slow connection = no connection = loss of SR ... but is more lenient on angles. A L6 beam routine with 145-150º split leap and a pike jump that isn't very piked and a couple wobbles can still earn 9.4.
On Bars, Judge D is all about the angles... if you don't hit the required angle, she takes max deduction (and erroneously takes away the SR in Xcel Gold even though it was admittedly close to horizontal... but coach didn't have the manual yet - since it wasn't released until the following week, so she had nothing to fight it).
On Floor, Judge E gets bored easily and, if you are lucky enough to be in the last rotation of a compulsory session, you can get away with more... No attempt at a BHS and still get an 8.45. (Small meet, so 1 judge panels... she will NOT be invited back unless we have enough judges to have 2 judge panels).

 

[cbifoja]

For whatever reason, my kid does much better out of state than she does in state. My kid is a vaulter and a bar worker. She is just power through and through and has NEVER struggled with vault.

We got to big meets like Queen City, Circle of Stars, Sand Dollar, etc. and she is always in top 10 and usually in top 5 in vault. It is her "go to" event. She can also usually be counted on to place on bars as well.

Yet last weekend, at a rinky dinky in-state meet that didn't even have enough participants to get age divisions in the optional levels, she comes in dead last on vault! Dead. Last. And yet, her vault looked the same as the 3000 other vaults she has done.

Granted, I know nothing about judging and even less about judging vault. I can't see the nuances. But I just can't bring myself to believe that a judge has an opinion about a little girl that they've never had a personal interaction with. And even if my kid had done something to annoy a judge, I need to live in a world where judges are professional enough to judge a kid on the merit of their gymnastics.

So even though I can't understand how she does so well outside of our state and yet gets killed in state (oh, and we aren't from a Texas, Michigan, Ohio, or California either!), I just have to believe that the judges saw something that warranted that placement.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

or the judges were just wrong. happens often. and ESPECIALLY at vault cause they don't know how to judge that event.

 

[gymdog]

or the judges were just wrong. happens often. and ESPECIALLY at vault cause they don't know how to judge that event.

Compulsory vault is the worst. I just pretend that's not an event. Mostly I think it's not the actual judging I disagree with, it's that I feel the criteria are flawed, which is an important distinction. They are probably accurately using the criteria set forth, I just find that fails to correctly rank the best vaults in level 3 especially (because no repulsion is required but some kids do it amazingly of course).

 

[Becauseisaid]

2 weeks ago at our own meet, one of our top placing L3s got HAMMERED on beam. Turns out 1 judge motioned for her to start her routine, but the other judge was still writing something down from the previous routine. Judge 2 looks up to see the routine started, frowned, and then deducted max points for EVERYTHING including not saluting. When our coach saw the score, he came over to ask about it. Judge 1 defended the gymnast, but Judge 2 wasn't budging. Score stood. Having said that, her score was still a 9.15.

The moral of my story is that, even though that judge was obviously ticked off by what she perceived as a major infraction (starting without permission), she STILL judged based on the routine in front of her. She deducted maximum points, but it had nothing to do with anything other than the gymnast in front of her. Your daughter's coach has every right to challenge or at least ask for an explanation on a score. And I've seen them do it many times.

 

[gymdog]

2 weeks ago at our own meet, one of our top placing L3s got HAMMERED on beam. Turns out 1 judge motioned for her to start her routine, but the other judge was still writing something down from the previous routine. Judge 2 looks up to see the routine started, frowned, and then deducted max points for EVERYTHING including not saluting. When our coach saw the score, he came over to ask about it. Judge 1 defended the gymnast, but Judge 2 wasn't budging. Score stood. Having said that, her score was still a 9.15.

The moral of my story is that, even though that judge was obviously ticked off by what she perceived as a major infraction (starting without permission), she STILL judged based on the routine in front of her. She deducted maximum points, but it had nothing to do with anything other than the gymnast in front of her. Your daughter's coach has every right to challenge or at least ask for an explanation on a score. And I've seen them do it many times.

Only one judge has the authority to signal, and they would have had to be within a couple tents of each other to get a 9.15, so I doubt the first judge deducted much less or tried to signal. The child probably just got confused.

 

[Becauseisaid]

Only one judge has the authority to signal, and they would have had to be within a couple tents of each other to get a 9.15, so I doubt the first judge deducted much less or tried to signal. The child probably just got confused.

Nope. Permission to start and saluting confirmed by Judge, coach, and video tape of the event. And there was definite wrangling going on between the judges and our HC regarding her score. Judge 2 stuck to her guns regarding most of her deductions (as she should) though it was obvious she was being particularly picky. I ain't hating. Sometimes it happens and being picky just meant the judge was paying particular attention to every bit of that routine.

 

[gymdog]

Nope. Permission to start and saluting confirmed by Judge, coach, and video tape of the event. And there was definite wrangling going on between the judges and our HC regarding her score. Judge 2 stuck to her guns regarding most of her deductions (as she should) though it was obvious she was being particularly picky. I ain't hating. Sometimes it happens and being picky just meant the judge was paying particular attention to every bit of that routine.

These judges aren't acting in accordance with USAG protocol then.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

These judges aren't acting in accordance with USAG protocol then.

AND they don't know how to judge vault. YIKES!

 

[gymdog]

AND they don't know how to judge vault. YIKES!

I'm moving to Canada!

 

[Gymsanity]

To the OP, I can only assume you look like Ms. All American compared to the father of one of my top gymnasts. We affectionately call him 'tackle box' because that's what it looks like he stuck his face in! Not really sure what nationality he is, as no one has ever seen the true color of his skin under all the tattoos! But I'm not sure if I can ever remember a time when she wasn't in the top 3 all around.
Having said that, the real issue and concern is if a judge doesn't like the club or coach. I have to be very careful of that, as I sometimes don't make the best first impression due to my high standards and expectations. I have a job to do, and I feel I do it very well. Jointly, the judges have a job to do and I expect them to do it very well also. If they don't, I'm usually the 'bad guy' that goes and 'discusses' it with them. No yelling, being rude, or anything else. 'Just the facts Mam.' I have to make sure that the judges don't take it out on my girls if I inadvertently ruffle some feathers. About six months ago I talked to one of the highest level judges in our region and asked her 'why do you hate me?' She said 'I don't hate you, I just find you a little too intense at the meets.' I tried to explain that I go to a competition to compete, not socialize or make friends. So these past few months, for the sake of the girls, I've been trying to be the happy go lucky, cheery coach. Look for me at your local meets!
The converse can be true as well. Sometimes all a girl needs to do is put on a certain leo from a certain club, and that's a guaranteed extra five tenths on the all around. Once again, not bagging on the judges as they are only human, and I believe they have a harder job to do than the coaches. Wouldn't do it for the world.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

You're the parent. By nature, you will notice everything your DD did right. As well you should; support and positivity are pretty much your entire job as a parent at a meet.

The judge, on the other hand, will notice everything she did wrong in her routine. As well she should; finding deductions is pretty much her entire job as a judge at a meet.

Of course the judge's assessment of her routine was harsher than yours.

 

[profmom]

In all the years my kids have been competing, I have seen their coaches get really riled up only a few times. The most memorable was when, after one of DD's teammates did a rocket launcher FHS vault (hi, Dunno!), the score went up as a 9.2 or something like that. The senior coach at the meet got visibly enraged and had a long conversation with the judges. I don't think I've ever seen her so mad. The second most memorable was last year at states, when my beloved child did a good pbars routine. When the score went up, I thought the ordinals were wrong but figured, hey, maybe he didn't get credit for something. His young coach, though, turned beet red as soon as the number came up and had a heated conversation with the program director and then with the judge (the judge told him that he'd taken a bunch of tenths for flexed feet). In neither case did the score change, but it was good to see that the coaches are looking out for egregious errors and will take action if they think it's warranted.

Short story: experienced coaches should know when a score is within a reasonable margin of error and when it isn't, and they also should know when it makes sense to press the issue.

 

[LizzieLac]

Most meets we go to have two judges, so the score awarded to the gymnast is the average. I suppose this should "help" with inexperienced judges or those that are "too" picky (which I guess means they always deduct the max when there is a range). It does make me a little nutty when there is .4-.5 difference in the two scores! Didn't they see the same performance?

 

[gymstaryaya]

there is a judge in pa, that everytime she judges my DD, she gives her the lowest scores! i swear she either hates my DD or is judging her poorly because of the way I look. I am gothic and have some facial piercings (not all out like some people though). Last season she did her floor routine perfectly! kept straight legs, toes pointed, and even finished on time with the music! best FX routine all season! It was the last meet of her season, so I was hoping for some good scores to be able to move up a level. This judge gave her a very low score, and she didnt place at all! she was very upset, but (and i loved that my DD did this) waited until we were outside and on the way to the car that she broke down, saying that she didnt want to do this anymore and that the judges were mean (her words, not mine lol). I talked her into staying in the sport as she would miss it greatly if she wasnt doing it and she agreed with me. But everytime she is at a meet that we are at, she always gives my DD a low score. No matter what meet it is. Its like she really hates my DD. I dont think I can request not to have her judge my child, but is there anything I can do?

I believe so! We have a judge that also teaches at our gym! She sometimes judge our girls( which I think is a conflict), and she always have something negative to say about my daughter's practice. At the meets, she scores her low! I told my dd to ignore her, because she is only one judge and her opinion is HER opinion, not the other judges, who usually give her great scores! Luckily, my dd thinks very highly of herself and this doesn't shake her at all!

 

[wgymmom]

she was old level 3 at that time. unfortunatly i cannot remember all the scores for the teamates at this time, but they were all pretty low as harldy anyone from my gym placed at that meet.

I just wouldn't take it personally. Sometimes there are wonky-scoring meets and kids bounce back. Our first meet this year was one of those brutal ones and we took a b eating, but so did every other gym.