Women kip in L3

[mommyof1]

Tinker Bell, repeating L3, is working kip-FHC with the hope of competing a kip later this season. She says that when she kips straight into her FHC, the kip does not put her in the right position to do the FHC with straight arms. She insists that her kip has straight arms and that her kip-cast is solid. Some questions from a curious spectator:

1. Does the fact that the kip does not set her up properly for the FHC mean that her kip is not, in fact, being done with perfectly straight arms?
2. Is there any utility to practicing kip-FHC instead of just kip-cast, since after L3 they will never again do a kip that is not immediately followed by a cast? Could this actually be counterproductive?
3. Is there really any benefit to competing a kip in L3? To me it just seems like a risk for additional deductions. The few kids who do compete a kip tend to score really high, but their form is generally very good and I wonder if they'd score just as well or higher with a perfectly executed pullover.
4. Why is the kip allowed in L3 in the first place?

 

[gymcoach1]

Doing a front hip circle out of the kip is teaching them to lean and get their shoulders over the bar following the kip which will help them with casting out of it. All of our optionals do them as a drill almost daily- so it's not just something she's going to use in compulsory.

Really no point in competing it in level 3 unless it's nearly perfect because it's just adding more deductions. I'd say try it at a small local meet if she really wants to compete it.

 

[lovemygymnast]

My dd competed with kip in L3 a few times but we found her score was lower with than without.

 

[vans2]

At least here in California, you can compete the kip in lvl 3. It was rare at the meets we attended, but there was one girl at the State meet (who was in my DDs age group) who competed the kip. She came in 1st place, my DD 2nd place. I was like "what the??" and didn't know until after the meet you could kip but it had to be a really good kip otherwise it's open for more deductions.

And kips with casts are needed for lvl 4, 5, 6, 7 etc.

Hope this helps!

 

[flipandfly]

It's a good lead-in skill to the other levels, like vans2 said. If your dd competes it in level 3, she might be less worried when she has to do 2 kips in level four. But if a kip means bent legs and bent arms, then the glide pullover is probably better for her score.

 

[raenndrops]

At least here in California, you can compete the kip in lvl 3. It was rare at the meets we attended, but there was one girl at the State meet (who was in my DDs age group) who competed the kip. She came in 1st place, my DD 2nd place. I was like "what the??" and didn't know until after the meet you could kip but it had to be a really good kip otherwise it's open for more deductions.

And kips with casts are needed for lvl 4, 5, 6, 7 etc.

Hope this helps!

OG does a kip front hip in Level 6 on low bar and a kip-cast on high bar.

 

[GymDad9.9]

My daughter did a kip in Level 3 this year. At least half of the girls on her team did as well. However, the best girl on the squad did not have a clean kip in States and it definitely hurt her chances of having the top AA score in the meet.

 

[munchkin3]

I think All of your concerns are valid.....I think it is impossible to do a kip with 100% straight arms throughout....
(we had a debate a few years ago on CB about straight arm kips and every olympian bends their arms at some point.....)
It is a good lead in to optional skills, but there is a lot of risk for deductions so the coach would decide if its worth it....
The Kip in L3 is equivalent to the stalder or toe on toe off skill in L5......Very few can do it well, but the ones that do are ahead of the curve.
If she can do it well go for it! Its just getting her ready to compete in in L4 and be ahead of the curve.

 

[mommyof1]

there is a lot of risk for deductions so the coach would decide if its worth it....
If she can do it well go for it! Its just getting her ready to compete in in L4 and be ahead of the curve.

Her pullover is weirdly the sloppiest part of her bar routine, so in her case a few deductions on the kip might not be any more than she'd get on the pullover.

I think the coach's concern is not so much about the kip itself as about the setup for the FHC, if the secondhand information I am getting from my child is accurate. They are really working on maintaining straight arms on the FHC, which Tink says she can't do out of the kip because she starts off too low. Coach is deciding tomorrow whether she will compete it at this weekend's meet. I am pretty sure it will be a no this time around, but there is still a lot of time left in the season.

 

[vans2]

Her pullover is weirdly the sloppiest part of her bar routine, so in her case a few deductions on the kip might not be any more than she'd get on the pullover.

I think the coach's concern is not so much about the kip itself as about the setup for the FHC, if the secondhand information I am getting from my child is accurate. They are really working on maintaining straight arms on the FHC, which Tink says she can't do out of the kip because she starts off too low. Coach is deciding tomorrow whether she will compete it at this weekend's meet. I am pretty sure it will be a no this time around, but there is still a lot of time left in the season.

I've looked at this training video and I can see what you are saying. If she comes up too low there's no chance to even do the hip circle properly. And too high means she'll be massively piked. Hopefully some coaches can chime in here...

 

[MAcastsalot]

DD (also repeating L3), has a perfect straight-armed kip according to coaches, including HC. They have even shown her kip to levels 4-6 as an example before, so she knows the kip is fine. She has competed it a few times, but her bar score ends up a little bit lower each time. The kip itself is fine, but her FHC tends to be a bit piked with arms a bit bent because she rushes the connection between the two. She says she just gets so excited that she can't help it.

 

[Bess]

Little Bit competed the kip in L3 and her score was always slightly lower than her teammates with their routines being extremely similar otherwise. However, she chose to keep doing it (with her coach's support) because she thought it would better prepare her for L4. We were A-ok with that if she was...she loved being known as the " little L3 kipper"

 

[fuzi]

We let our girls choose to compete a kip if they can do it with straight arms connected to the front hip circle and have already qualified to state. At state, coaches make the call based on what will score best and may change our mind during touch warmup.

That said, we teach it as kip, push bar down to "bottom of shorts" and quickly press heels backs to straight body (simultaneously), then front hip. It's weird and a little different than doing a kip cast, because you have to have the bar at just the right place and an extended body when you start the front hip. Our girls who killed finished 1st and 2nd in their age groups at state: 9.550 and 9.275.

 

[mobeans]

To answer #3, our gym highly encourages kids to perform their kips in L3 to better prep them for L4. L3 is not even a mandatory level so what happens here doesn't truly matter, score-wise, in the long run. Once a gymmie has a clean kip they compete it.

Yes, scores can be down a hair, but the rhythm is usually much better. DD scored maybe .1 - .2 lower in L3 w/ a kip vs. competing w/o it. By the time she competed in L4 she had been competing/practicing it for a year. She had a straight arm kip by then, which can take a while to perfect.