Women L4 mobility score

[amiandjim]

This is true, level 3 is handstand to flatback just on mats. I do think the level 1, 2, and 3 vaults build on own another, though, and I can’t picture a better progression. To be honest, I truly think that a lot of gyms don’t focus as much on vault as the other events and it suffers a bit in comparison. I could be wrong, I’m sure, but we have a local gym who is a “vault” gym, while we are a “bars” gym. At their first level meets, the other gym was in the 9+ on vault, and our girls were 9+ on bars. I just think it’s more common to focus more on bars, beam, or floor than vault.

 

[gymnastmom05]

This bolded statement is not true. Level 1 does a straight jump onto mats then handstand to flat back. Level 2 does a FHS onto stacked mats to flatback. Level 3 does a FHS onto the table to flatback on mats. Level 4 and 5 do FHS over the table onto their feet. Then they do FHS for a few years, because it needs to be mastered. The vault does build each level. The angle of repulsion gets added in. Deductions increase, expectations increase.

I've gone through all those levels with my DD, so I know - I was specifically referring to the Level 4 score out. It was just a suggestion for that level only, just like the 34 pertains to Level 4 only. Even if the judging gets more difficult, the vault is the same and no more scary/risk of injury if you are a Level 4/5/6/7 etc. That was what I meant in relation to that statement.

 

[MabelSt]

In my opinion, levels should be determined by coaches, like the boys do. I think the reason the boys coaches can have autonomy and the girls coaches can’t boils down to one thing- not trusting women/girls.

 

[MabelSt]

Because some coaches move their gymnasts up before they are ready either for bragging rights, pride, because the parent pushes for it, whatever. It happens and it is dangerous. If you ever watched a level 8 or 9 meet with girls who clearly are not ready for that level and should not be there, and you suffer about 30 mini heartattacks minimum during the meet, you would understand the reason for a minimum score.

Do you have the same concerns about the male gymnasts? That really makes no sense to me. Obviously a responsible coach won’t move a kid up before they can safely do skills.

 

[skschlag]

Do you have the same concerns about the male gymnasts? That really makes no sense to mean. Obviously a responsible coach won’t move a kid up before they can safely do skills.

I do love the way the boys do it, but they have minimum ages for the levels. You have to be 7 to do L5; 8 to do L6, 10 to do L7, 11 for L8, 13 for L9, and 15 for L10. YOu cannot move a boy up to those levels until they are at least that age. That helps keep things in check a bit. That would be so hard for the girls.

But....having a son, I do see how it works well on the boys' side.

 

[gymdog]

Most gyms in our state have only done one or two meets. It's kind of a split season since we start before the holidays and go so long after, but most kids who have all skills will score a 34 by spring. There is awhile. I wouldn't worry if it didn't happen after the first meet. The scores aren't very low here. If anything the scores at our state meets are extremely inflated compared to other highly competitive areas. I would still consider our state as a whole one of the current "hotbeds" on a national scale. But it's also true when I see routines from other comparable areas they do not in general score as high and meets do not have 9.7s receiving 4th place, etc. But this is on the high end. For the low to middle routine it probably does hurt a bit in comparison to the many very strong compulsory routines at many meets.

AAU level 3 does a flatback with hands on table. USAG level 3 does it only on mats. USAG Silver does a flatback with hands on table. So that is probably the confusion.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Do you have the same concerns about the male gymnasts? That really makes no sense to me. Obviously a responsible coach won’t move a kid up before they can safely do skills.

Exactly. (I don't watch or judge boys, so I can't make any comment on boys gymnastics. I have no idea about boys gymnastics.)

 

[3rd_time_around]

Most gyms in our state have only done one or two meets. It's kind of a split season since we start before the holidays and go so long after, but most kids who have all skills will score a 34 by spring. There is awhile. I wouldn't worry if it didn't happen after the first meet. The scores aren't very low here. If anything the scores at our state meets are extremely inflated compared to other highly competitive areas. I would still consider our state as a whole one of the current "hotbeds" on a national scale. But it's also true when I see routines from other comparable areas they do not in general score as high and meets do not have 9.7s receiving 4th place, etc. But this is on the high end. For the low to middle routine it probably does hurt a bit in comparison to the many very strong compulsory routines at many meets.

AAU level 3 does a flatback with hands on table. USAG level 3 does it only on mats. USAG Silver does a flatback with hands on table. So that is probably the confusion.

Thank you. AAU is sometimes more advanced. They have angle of repulsion deductions in level 2, while USA waits much longer.

 

[gymdog]

I know AAU has tried to make some changes like that, but they have generally adopted very similar routines to USAG overall. I don't think it makes a big difference in the end but we don't have AAU here anyway. In the states where it is more competitive gyms seem to use it differently. Xcel is more like that here. In any system no matter where you set the rules the kids who are more advanced will move up more quickly. It's just a matter of what you decide to call what.

 

[duyetanh]

Do you have the same concerns about the male gymnasts? That really makes no sense to me. Obviously a responsible coach won’t move a kid up before they can safely do skills.

Level 8 and 9 meets are the epitome of scariness, and trust me when I say that many coaches move the kids up before they can safely do skills. I have had heart palpitations watching these levels at meets, as the bile gathers in my throat. Also, don't forget, because of adrenaline, weird crap can happen at this level, and girls fully capable of doing a routine can have issues, freak out, etc. I do think the coaches *think* they know what they are doing....but when the girls are obviously not ready (I am not going to go into details about how obvious it is, but believe me when I say it IS obvious), it is truly scary.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I don’t think you can compare boys gymnastics to girls gymnastics. It’s on a whole other level in the USA.

The USA women’s team is by far the best in the world. Your level 10’s are better than most countries elite’s. You have enough top gymnasts to make multiple international teams and have them all do well on the international stage.

Standards in WAG in the US are very high and there are a huge number of girls vying for top spots.

MAG is just not the same, there are a lot less athletes and a lot more pressures on those athletes to drop the sport as they get older. I’m guessing they don’t want to give any of the boys a reason to drop out.

Also in WAG the vast majority of gymnasts skill development is done before puberty, so good development at these lower levels are crucial. Coaches are often tempted to rush their female gymnasts to get them to as high a level as possible before puberty rears it’s head.

In MAG boys will do most of their skill development after puberty, when their adult strength starts to set in. Coaches are less inclined to rush their gymnasts and the younger years are not as make it break it as they are with girls.

 

[rjb123]

Because some coaches move their gymnasts up before they are ready either for bragging rights, pride, because the parent pushes for it, whatever. It happens and it is dangerous. If you ever watched a level 8 or 9 meet with girls who clearly are not ready for that level and should not be there, and you suffer about 30 mini heartattacks minimum during the meet, you would understand the reason for a minimum score.

That is so true! I remember last year sitting at a large level 8 meet and seeing girls that could barely kip. I mean bent arm stomach on the bar kips. They were all quite young and I was honestly shocked. Why would a coach put them out there to get a 6? Why do that to a kid? Obviously they were talented girls- they were super young, and so there was no rush. Maybe it was just a bad day, but I kept thinking that if *I* knew their bars were kind of scary, then my gosh that was bad. Im just a mom! I don't see the benefit in doing that to a kid.

 

[gymcoach1]

Level 8 and 9 meets are the epitome of scariness, and trust me when I say that many coaches move the kids up before they can safely do skills. I have had heart palpitations watching these levels at meets, as the bile gathers in my throat. Also, don't forget, because of adrenaline, weird crap can happen at this level, and girls fully capable of doing a routine can have issues, freak out, etc. I do think the coaches *think* they know what they are doing....but when the girls are obviously not ready (I am not going to go into details about how obvious it is, but believe me when I say it IS obvious), it is truly scary.

I wouldn’t just blame the coaches for this.... more times than not it’s the parent basically demanding their child be moved up. Of course it could be poor coaching too, but parents thinking they can choose their childs levels happens way too often.

 

[amiandjim]

I wouldn’t just blame the coaches for this.... more times than not it’s the parent basically demanding their child be moved up. Of course it could be poor coaching too, but parents thinking they can choose their childs levels happens way too often.

But why would a coach agree to this? Just say no and if they don’t like it, they can take their child to another gym! I cannot even begin to imagine what our head coach/owner would say if someone demanded their child be moved up.

 

[mommyof1]

I wouldn’t just blame the coaches for this.... more times than not it’s the parent basically demanding their child be moved up. Of course it could be poor coaching too, but parents thinking they can choose their childs levels happens way too often.

Where on earth is this happening? At both gyms our daughter has attended and another where she was offered a place on team, parents have zero input as to levels. Your child is offered a place at a particular level and you can either take it or leave it. The only option parents have is to choose XCel if JO is offered. Even a mom who works at the gym, is friends with the owner and HC, and is a booster club officer had zero input regarding her child's level placement.

 

[amiandjim]

I will say last year, one of the coaches asked a girl’s mom if she thought her child would rather repeat a level and have more success at meets or move up and possibly not place as well. The mom said her daughter would rather move up so she moved to 4 and is doing fine (scored a little over 34 first meet I think). But, yeah, demanding levels is not a thing.

 

[gymcoach1]

Wow got to say I’m pretty surprised by the responses. Maybe it was just where I was, HC gave in if the parents put up enough of a fight.

 

[LJL07]

I might be in the minority, but I think rather than an all around minimum score, there should be a minimum move up score on each event. There is a prolific IG poster with a really young kid who jumped from 3 to 6, and her bars are barely passable for 5. The free hip is still a back hip circle. Why would a gym be scoring out all those levels and particularly a young kid if the bars are not ready? Her beam is nice, but it’s not unusual to see a kid with strengths on certain events. I’m not a coach, but I don’t think it makes sense to move kids, and especially not young kids, up multiple levels based off of one or two events that pulls up the AA score.

 

[raenndrops]

Wow got to say I’m pretty surprised by the responses. Maybe it was just where I was, HC gave in if the parents put up enough of a fight.

Often, parents and gymnasts will have a little input. They will be given options. Move up and possibly struggle or repeat and possibly have a great season OR start the season repeating (Nov-Dec) and move up in January. It is all very individual.

Lol, we had a parent that did NOT want his daughter to move up from L4 last season (high score at L4 of 32.90 with a potential of 33.85 if she put it all together in 1 meet) to L5 for this season. He had good reasons:
1. She was the YOUNGEST on our team across all levels last year... was 7 for most of the season. (This year, there are 4 girls younger than her... all Level 3).
2. Her high score was only 32.90 and she never placed higher than 3rd (Bars).
3. He wanted her to have success at L4 before moving up.

HC did move her up to L5 and SHE had good reasons:
1. She was the only one with ALL the skills without fears (although her back tuck is too laid out, lol).
2. It is hard to move up other girls that might be missing or struggling with a skill and tell this girl she can't move up.
3. HC knows that she can slow down the girl's trajectory once she gets to L6... moving from L6 to L7 is VERY individual at our gym. We can set high standards for this particular girl... and have her repeat L6 until she is SOLID on every event.

This season, we are 3 meets into the season. She has already scored 33.0 at L5 after never reaching that at L4.

 

[raenndrops]

I might be in the minority, but I think rather than an all around minimum score, there should be a minimum move up score on each event. There is a prolific IG poster with a really young kid who jumped from 3 to 6, and her bars are barely passable for 5. The free hip is still a back hip circle. Why would a gym be scoring out all those levels and particularly a young kid if the bars are not ready? Her beam is nice, but it’s not unusual to see a kid with strengths on certain events. I’m not a coach, but I don’t think it makes sense to move kids, and especially not young kids, up multiple levels based off of one or two events that pulls up the AA score.

Our "Zone" of YMCA gymnastics (Think similar to State plus a few out of state teams OR Region) used to have MANDATE scores. IF a gymnast made this score 2 in a season, they HAD to move up the next season or petition to repeat.
Old L4 had both an AA score AND an event score... and the AA score had to be earned in the same meet that all 4 event scores were met. The other levels only had AA scores at first. A couple years after we joined team, they added event scores for all levels. Then, for 2013-14 season, they finally eliminated the mandate scores because we were the only Zone that had them, so we moved girls up before they were as ready as girls from other areas of the country. We had the most girls at Nationals (and the highest percentage), but we didn't get as many medals as a Zone as other areas did.
Here are our OLD Mandate Scores (adjusted to reflect the new levels)... which were used in conjunction with USAG Minimum Mobility scores to determine move ups.
L3 - 33.0 with 8.25 on each event as the meet in which the 33 was earned. 2x.
L4 - 34.0 with 8.0 on each event as the meet in which the 34 was earned. 2x.
L5 - 33.0 with 7.75 on each event as the meet in which the 33 was earned. 2x.
L6 - 34.0 with 8.0 on each event as the meet in which the 34 was earned. 2x.
L7 - 34.0 with 8.0 on each event as the meet in which the 34 was earned. 2x.
L8 - 34.0 with 8.0 on each event as the meet in which the 34 was earned. 2x.
L9 - No Mandate score because the Zone doesn't compete L10.
XLG - 34.0 with 8.25 on each event as the meet in which the 34 was earned. 2x.
XLP - No Mandate score because the Zone doesn't compete XLD... HOWEVER, we came up with one our area uses to transitions into L6/L7. Since our team is not competing USAG sanctioned meets, our coaches can place girls where appropriate at the beginning of a season.
XLP - 36.0 with 8.5 on each event as the meet in which the 36 was earned. 2x.

You may notice that other than L3, the event scores do NOT add up to the AA score. This allows a girl to have a "bad" event and still move up.