Women Level 4 floor question - your opinion?

[mom2newgymnast]

Short version: Do you think the level 4 floor routine looks better when the arm motions are smooth and flowing/graceful or sharp and precise?

Long version: My dd has 2 floor/beam coaches this season and they seem to disagree about how the floor routine should best be performed. They coach the team on different days so, depending on the day, my dd and her teammates are expected to do it the way that coach prefers. With one coach, she likes all the arm and hand motions to be very pretty looking, smooth and flowing. With the other coach, who is from China and speaks very limited English, the arm motions should be very sharp and precise. My dd calls it robot arms. Both coaches will correct the girls if they do the arms the way the other coach prefers. This is very frustrating to my dd and her teammates, but they are almost at the end of the season and it doesn't seem likely to change at this point. So, she came home yesterday and asked me which way she should do it at the meet this weekend. I told her I have no idea which is "better" so I thought I'd ask here. Which do you think looks nicer? Scores higher? Thanks!

 

[CuriousCate]

my DD is level 3 and the coaches told her to keep it straight, sharp and tight so you leave no room for deductions with the judges. Leave nothing for them to question/consider. Personally, I think it looks nuts.

 

[Flippingout]

Yea, I think it should all be sharp and tight for level 4. It leaves less deductions for the judges to take. Just my opinion.

 

[Gymmommy71]

IMO different judges like different things when it comes to sharp vs smooth. My DD is very flowy and smooth and some judges love it and some hate it. There is one judge who when she is judging on beam or floor my DD needs to just be ready for a much lower than usual score. What is ironic is the same judge always seems to score my daughter significantly higher on bars, so she must like something about her style on that event. We see her walk in and are like "please go to bars, please go to bars " - haha.

There is a very successful gym in my area that has clearly embraced the robot style for compulsory routines. Everything is expectional about their gymnasts gymnastics though - they do a lot of hours, appear to either screen on or promote a very thin body type, and they do a lot of level repeating in spite of 36+ scores in the previous season - therefore I can't really say they get their good scores cause of the robotic movements or the other stuff.

 

[gymdog]

The music in level 4 is a bit sharper (compared to level 5 which is basically the same routine). But the text does indicate "soft" arms in many areas. In which case the technique is to extend the arm sequentially through the elbows, wrists, and fingers.

Honestly this sounds like something that should probably be politely addressed to the coaches, just letting them know your daughter is confused. You don't even need to say it's an ongoing thing or label it as x is saying this or y is saying this, just "daughter is confused about how her arms should be placed on some parts of the floor routine. I know there are two coaches, so maybe she is picking up on some differences in their style. I advised daughter to ask x and y in practice, so I'm just emailing you as a heads up."

But it sounds like there could be a language barrier.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

Tight and controlled seems to score better. Think of it as showing strength and precision.

 

[curlygirls]

Around here, tight and controlled arms will score better than flowing arms.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

Thanks everyone for the replies!

The music in level 4 is a bit sharper (compared to level 5 which is basically the same routine). But the text does indicate "soft" arms in many areas. In which case the technique is to extend the arm sequentially through the elbows, wrists, and fingers.

Honestly this sounds like something that should probably be politely addressed to the coaches, just letting them know your daughter is confused. You don't even need to say it's an ongoing thing or label it as x is saying this or y is saying this, just "daughter is confused about how her arms should be placed on some parts of the floor routine. I know there are two coaches, so maybe she is picking up on some differences in their style. I advised daughter to ask x and y in practice, so I'm just emailing you as a heads up."

But it sounds like there could be a language barrier.

Trust me, we've all tried. Dd has asked during practice, I have talked to the head coach (about this specifically as well as other issues), others have complained, etc. It's been an interesting season... This really isn't a big deal, compared to some other issues, so I just told my dd to pick one and go with it. Honestly, they are scoring fine too, so I don't think it's a big deal. I just thought I'd see what the general consensus was as to which way is preferred.

 

[CoachMeg]

I think the level 3 routine is a bit sharper because the choreography contains more poses, whereas level 4/5 demonstrate a lot of ballet-like dance so overall the routine should be a bit more "flowy". We prefer softer arms in levels 4/5 as opposed to stiff and rigid arms. The important thing is to follow the text and hit the necessary contractions (there are 7 in levels 4/5, each worth 0.1 for a total of 0.7). And if they are too stiff, they are more likely to miss the contractions in the routine (where the body bends).

The key to good floor scores in level 4/5 is:
- Good form on tumbling
- Amplitude/degree on dance elements as well as form
- Hitting all seven contractions
- Good turnout/alignment/posture
- Selling the routine

 

[CoachMeg]

There was a Technique Magazine that came out last year that highlighted compulsory floor routines. I'll try and find it online.

EDIT: https://issuu.com/usagymnastics/docs/2015_6novdec
Page 32 is the article I was referring to, and page 34 shows all the required contractions.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I didn't peak at the article yet but I say both. depends on where in the routine.

But the moves should be big/complete even when they flow.

Now off to the link.

 

[Muffinsmom]

As a judge I personally prefer smooth and flowing and find the robot style of performance distracting. That being said, a distracted judge often misses deductions soooo maybe that style is trained on purpose. All other things being equal, as long as the gymnast does the required movements and shows that she has a certain amount of artistry, whether flowy or sharp, I'm not likely to deduct because I prefer a different style. A lack of style, however, will incur deductions.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

I think the level 3 routine is a bit sharper because the choreography contains more poses, whereas level 4/5 demonstrate a lot of ballet-like dance so overall the routine should be a bit more "flowy". We prefer softer arms in levels 4/5 as opposed to stiff and rigid arms. The important thing is to follow the text and hit the necessary contractions (there are 7 in levels 4/5, each worth 0.1 for a total of 0.7). And if they are too stiff, they are more likely to miss the contractions in the routine (where the body bends).

The key to good floor scores in level 4/5 is:
- Good form on tumbling
- Amplitude/degree on dance elements as well as form
- Hitting all seven contractions
- Good turnout/alignment/posture
- Selling the routine

Thank you for this information, and for the link to the article. Great information!

 

[Aero]

This is a fault of the coaches, for sure. They should have enough communication to figure out some sort of consistency. Sounds like a pointless ego thing to me. @mom2newgymnast, ask your daughter what style she associates with more, and that is your answer. If she likes being graceful and supple in her movements, then she should. If she likes a sharper, more contrasted style, then have her do that. She should pick what she likes, and not worry about the back and forth of the coaches. This kind of confusing inconsistency between coaches stifles gymnasts' artistry and should not exist in a gym!

Also remember, that this sort of thing really doesn't matter in the long run. The goal is progressing to the highest level she can and loving the sport. Getting some minor deductions on artistry has nothing to do with the endgame, especially if it's based on her style and personality. In fact, style and personality are sought after in the optional levels! Don't let her worry about the coaches contradictory corrections on this matter, they won't kick her out of the gym for it anyway.

 

[coachmolly]

In the long run, it really doesn't matter. Do what feels best to her- a gymnast is going to compete best when she does what she feels comfortable doing. There are some text specifications about movements being sharp vs. soft, but other than that, do what feels best. Unless of course what feels best is flopping around like a wet noodle.
When I'm giving pointers to other coaches I work with about floor/beam choreo my general guideline is "If it looks nice and they're comfortable, let it go." Even if it means slight style variations among girls. Though one of our CGMs who sits a few feet from the floor had some snide comments about that last season .

 

[vbdb]

My DD was a L4 provincial floor champ last year and she definitely did not have robot arms, movements flow nicely but are still crisp. She scored 9.6+ all year but her tumbling and leaps are very strong and our gym pays a lot of attention to detail too.

 

[GymRays]

I remember "soft" and "supple" arms being part of the text when at a clinic to learn the new level compulsory routines. We have since switched to xcel but I do remember that part of the clinic.

 

[3rd_time_around]

The new routines were designed to be more "dancy," in contrast to last quadrennium where the routines were preformed more like robots or soldiers. They want the gymnasts to look artistic. Therefore, the flowy routine is actually to way it should be performed according to the text. If the article referenced is the one il thinking about, it stressed the need for the routine to look more flowing and graceful. Of course, like always, it has become very sharp and soldier-like. The article even mentioned that judges should take note and judge accordingly, with the nod to the pretty, graceful routine.

As for OP's daughter, regardless of which way they decide to go with, both coaches should be in agreement so these girls can be confident and ready when it's time to perform. I would suggest they read the text together and consult USA gymnastics. They have lots of answers at the head office.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Of course, like always, it has become very sharp and soldier-like.

Really, that has not been my experience.

 

[gymbeam]

here's a video of the gymnast who had the highest aa score at the level 4 state meet in nc last year.
how do you all describe this routine? (besides great? lol.)