WAG Level 7 bars question?

[ascarter1]

Assuming is not a good thing.

We have gyms around here that do lower hours for their Xcel teams than their JO teams. But their Xcel teams do more hours than our JO team does. And our lower hour JO team routinely competes against high hour JO teams.

We are a low hour gym and we do JO and other programs, Xcel in the past, IGC.
Coaches like progression of compulsories and flexibility of programs allowing options. But we have one team. 2 seasons.

Their philosophy is a BHS is a BHS. There is no Xcel BHS, JO BHS, IGC BHS.
It's a BHS, and it should be done well, you work towards getting it perfected no matter what program you do it in. Same for giants. Giants are giants.

I think it truly varies by region! Several gyms in my region do not use the xcel system as it was designed for. Many gyms compete jo during the jo season, and then compete down a level in xcel during that season (going from successful level 4 to silver). If that's the case, it isn't fair to the young ladies that are only training xcel, generally with fewer hours than jo. That's not to say that that is the norm, but unfortunately sandbagging occurs. That's not what the xcel program was designed for.

 

[GymDad9.9]

I think it truly varies by region! Several gyms in my region do not use the xcel system as it was designed for. Many gyms compete jo during the jo season, and then compete down a level in xcel during that season (going from successful level 4 to silver). If that's the case, it isn't fair to the young ladies that are only training xcel, generally with fewer hours than jo. That's not to say that that is the norm, but unfortunately sandbagging occurs. That's not what the xcel program was designed for.

Curious, the move from Level 4 to Excel Silver is a downward move?

 

[raenndrops]

Curious, the move from Level 4 to Excel Silver is a downward move?

Yes, JO4 does a FHS vault. Xcel Silver does a fatback over the vault table to mats. That is a step back.
Bars… JO4 Requires a kip and going to the high bar. Xcel Silver does not require a jump to the high bar.
Beam… JO4 requires 2 acro skills (HS and cartwheel). Xcel Silver only requires 1.
Floor… JO4 requires a ROBHSBHS and a FHS (all of these have flight). Xcel Silver requires an acro pass with 2 skills (only one has to have flight) and EITHER a 2nd acro connection with or without flight OR a single acro flight skill.

AND, with the new Xcel Rules, JO4 HAS to go to Gold. JO3 is also supposed to go to Gold (which is a HUGE step up), so they can petition to Silver if they can't do the Gold skills safely.

 

[raenndrops]

I think it truly varies by region! Several gyms in my region do not use the xcel system as it was designed for. Many gyms compete jo during the jo season, and then compete down a level in xcel during that season (going from successful level 4 to silver). If that's the case, it isn't fair to the young ladies that are only training xcel, generally with fewer hours than jo. That's not to say that that is the norm, but unfortunately sandbagging occurs. That's not what the xcel program was designed for.

That was one of the things fixed with the new rules. JO4 has to go to Gold. Silver is not an option for a successful JO4 unless they have suffered an illness or injury that prevents them from doing Gold. Even JO3 is now supposed to go to Gold (unless they can't do the special requirements safely (then they have to be petitioned to Silver).

 

[Gymmommy71]

Are there rules for which JO levels have to go to Platinum and Diamond?

 

[raenndrops]

Are there rules for which JO levels have to go to Platinum and Diamond?

Yes there is They fixed the "top end" problem where girls were able to do Gold AFTER L6 and Platinum AFTER L8 … but there are still issues (that can be fixed with Petitions).

Platinum from JO5 or JO6
Diamond from JO7-JO10

 

[LizzieLac]

Yes there is They fixed the "top end" problem where girls were able to do Gold AFTER L6 and Platinum AFTER L8 … but there are still issues (that can be fixed with Petitions).

Platinum from JO5 or JO6
Diamond from JO7-JO10

According to this ^^^ I feel like our gym simply uses Platinum as another optional level to bridge the gap to upper JO optionals. It gives the girls who are struggling on an event the ability to use Platinum to "showcase" where they are strong. Our Platinum and level 6s train together, so no one is missing out on hours. The fact is we always have girls coming out of level 5 and even now, kids like my DD who lost a lot of training due to injury, that would otherwise get lost/stuck at level 6. Some girls just don't have the bars, and I'll be frank. What I often see is if a kid can't do a giant, they often either can't CHS and I thought that at level 7 the circling element on low and high bar had to be different, so you couldn't do clearhip on both (I could be wrong). And they are likely not to have a 10 SV because they can't make 2 B skills and get credit. They would simply not be competitive on bars and so if they have good floor skills or are strong on beam they do 6. If the gap in their skills is more than that, Platinum is a great option for them.

We are in region 6 and Platinum was pretty competitive here last year. I really don't feel like this is gaming the system. And don't get me wrong, I am not defending our owner's philosophy. There are times when I think that the "requirements" he has set up don't take into account the situation of he individual girl. Older girls who want to do 7 and may be able to if they could do other skills that he has made as the gatekeeper skills, for example. But, we have seen time and again that if he doesn't hold true to his guidelines, parents bully, argue, push, persuade, etc. to have their kids go into a level that backfires. So, I get where he is coming from - if he didn't have these guidelines, there would be constant negotiating about Suzie being ready for something that she is not.

One last point, IMO, Diamond being the equivalent to JO7-JO10 is crazy. To say that a girl with JO 7 and JO 9 or 10 experience are equivalent enough to compete against each other is a far bigger gap than arguing that a kid who is missing a giant or BHS on beam, and coming from JO, has unfair advantage over a girl rising to Platinum strictly from the Xcel program.

 

[raenndrops]

According to this ^^^ I feel like our gym simply uses Platinum as another optional level to bridge the gap to upper JO optionals. It gives the girls who are struggling on an event the ability to use Platinum to "showcase" where they are strong. Our Platinum and level 6s train together, so no one is missing out on hours. The fact is we always have girls coming out of level 5 and even now, kids like my DD who lost a lot of training due to injury, that would otherwise get lost/stuck at level 6. Some girls just don't have the bars, and I'll be frank. What I often see is if a kid can't do a giant, they often either can't CHS and I thought that at level 7 the circling element on low and high bar had to be different, so you couldn't do clearhip on both (I could be wrong). And they are likely not to have a 10 SV because they can't make 2 B skills and get credit. They would simply not be competitive on bars and so if they have good floor skills or are strong on beam they do 6. If the gap in their skills is more than that, Platinum is a great option for them.

We are in region 6 and Platinum was pretty competitive here last year. I really don't feel like this is gaming the system. And don't get me wrong, I am not defending our owner's philosophy. There are times when I think that the "requirements" he has set up don't take into account the situation of he individual girl. Older girls who want to do 7 and may be able to if they could do other skills that he has made as the gatekeeper skills, for example. But, we have seen time and again that if he doesn't hold true to his guidelines, parents bully, argue, push, persuade, etc. to have their kids go into a level that backfires. So, I get where he is coming from - if he didn't have these guidelines, there would be constant negotiating about Suzie being ready for something that she is not.

One last point, IMO, Diamond being the equivalent to JO7-JO10 is crazy. To say that a girl with JO 7 and JO 9 or 10 experience are equivalent enough to compete against each other is a far bigger gap than arguing that a kid who is missing a giant or BHS on beam, and coming from JO, has unfair advantage over a girl rising to Platinum strictly from the Xcel program.

The requirements of Diamond are similar to L7 (with more of a L8ish vibe on Vault). There is no bonus in Diamond like there is in L9/L10. L10s would have to simplify their routines because there is only 1 D MAX allowed per routine, but requirements are 5 A and 2 B skills. They Also don't have a deduction for "up to competition level" that L8+ has. A former L7 who competes clean routines with minimum requirements will do as well as a L10 who competes just as cleanly with the same number of allowable skills.

And in L7, a skill performed on the low bar and the high bar is counted as a DIFFERENT skill, so they can get credit for Clear hip on both bars.

 

[ascarter1]

Yes, JO4 does a FHS vault. Xcel Silver does a fatback over the vault table to mats. That is a step back.
Bars… JO4 Requires a kip and going to the high bar. Xcel Silver does not require a jump to the high bar.
Beam… JO4 requires 2 acro skills (HS and cartwheel). Xcel Silver only requires 1.
Floor… JO4 requires a ROBHSBHS and a FHS (all of these have flight). Xcel Silver requires an acro pass with 2 skills (only one has to have flight) and EITHER a 2nd acro connection with or without flight OR a single acro flight skill.

AND, with the new Xcel Rules, JO4 HAS to go to Gold. JO3 is also supposed to go to Gold (which is a HUGE step up), so they can petition to Silver if they can't do the Gold skills safely.

Good to know about new rules! Dd never competed xcel, but our gym did a few years ago.

 

[ascarter1]

That was one of the things fixed with the new rules. JO4 has to go to Gold. Silver is not an option for a successful JO4 unless they have suffered an illness or injury that prevents them from doing Gold. Even JO3 is now supposed to go to Gold (unless they can't do the special requirements safely (then they have to be petitioned to Silver).

Good to know about the new rules! Surely that will help!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Curious, the move from Level 4 to Excel Silver is a downward move?

When we did Xcel our girls were appropriately leveled. So L4 would of done Gold. Our L3 did Silver or Gold depending on their skill level. As raenndrops said its been addressed and rightly so, because L4 should never have been doing Silver.

 

[2G1B]

I agree, if you can do L4 and do well, you have no business doing silver. However, I think a L3 is pretty equal to silver. L3 IMO pretty much translates to silver. If you have competed L3, the vault you have been doing is less than silver, you haven't been going to the high bar, all that you have done on beam is a handstand, and for floor you have done a ROBHS. So, assuming that you aren't ready for L4, it is very possible that you are not ready for gold. The cartwheel can be tough for some kids to get on the beam, the squat on can be tough for some on bars, maybe they arent' ready to FHS over the vault table, and it isn't crazy to think that they might not be ready for a tuck on the floor. A kid coming from L3 really might need silver, even if they had a good L3 year.

 

[raenndrops]

I agree, if you can do L4 and do well, you have no business doing silver. However, I think a L3 is pretty equal to silver. L3 IMO pretty much translates to silver. If you have competed L3, the vault you have been doing is less than silver, you haven't been going to the high bar, all that you have done on beam is a handstand, and for floor you have done a ROBHS. So, assuming that you aren't ready for L4, it is very possible that you are not ready for gold. The cartwheel can be tough for some kids to get on the beam, the squat on can be tough for some on bars, maybe they arent' ready to FHS over the vault table, and it isn't crazy to think that they might not be ready for a tuck on the floor. A kid coming from L3 really might need silver, even if they had a good L3 year.

My YG went to Xcel Gold after 3years of Old L4/ current L3. We don't compete Silver. She was ready for Gold on vault and floor... And almost on bars. Beam, she just left out what she wasn't ready to compete (full turn and acro) - and still placed pretty good at most meets.
Luckily, the petition process to get L3 into Silver instead of Gold (for gyms that compete Silver) is easy.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

How
How old is Kipper? I feel like if they don't have a handstand before puberty it gets so much harder. I don't really understand what HC said she tried. If I can get a video I will. Something about speeding up the drop and changing the shape of the tap. I don't know. She said there may be a shape deduction. But after 2 years she said it wouldn't hurt to try something new. Good luck to Kipper.

She just turned 12 and had a huge growth spurt. Her biggest challenge until recently was fear . Her coach says she is strong enough, she just needs more confidence. With the body changes associated with the onset of puberty...everything is a hot mess!!!

 

[duyetanh]

She just turned 12 and had a huge growth spurt. Her biggest challenge until recently was fear . Her coach says she is strong enough, she just needs more confidence. With the body changes associated with the onset of puberty...everything is a hot mess!!!

Puberty sucks!

 

[l.c.o]

Puberty sucks!

When it comes to gymnastics, YES!

Don't you wish it would come made-to-order? Like "Yes, I'd like one puberty at age 16 please, and please make it a slow transition?"

 

[raenndrops]

When it comes to gymnastics, YES!

Don't you wish it would come made-to-order? Like "Yes, I'd like one puberty at age 16 please, and please make it a slow transition?"

Yes... Order it... Slow transition (with the ability to dictate how slow... Growth spurt timeframe and amount of growth over that time).
No more of this 6 inches and 3 cup sizes in under 15 months between end of 7th to beginning of 9th grade.

Start at 16 and stretch it out three years to age 19.

 

[l.c.o]

Yes... Order it... Slow transition (with the ability to dictate how slow... Growth spurt timeframe and amount of growth over that time).
No more of this 6 inches and 3 cup sizes in under 15 months between end of 7th to beginning of 9th grade.

Start at 16 and stretch it out three years to age 19.

Yes to all of that!

 

[Mom2-4]

I hear ya. Add hormone irritability to gymnast type 1 personality plus harder skills and change of center of gravity it's amazing that any gymnast continues past 13.

 

[duyetanh]

I hear ya. Add hormone irritability to gymnast type 1 personality plus harder skills and change of center of gravity it's amazing that any gymnast continues past 13.

Sadly, so many dont. At out gym alone 4 quit over summer, which is when a higher percentage of girls quit as it is....and all were either 13 or newly 14.....it sucks.