WAG Level 8 bars

[cassafrass]

Are shootovers and double back dismounts commonly competed at level 8? I ask because historically DD has struggled with bars, but she is doing those skills nicely without spots. No way can she do a pirouette because her kip casts are very sub par. Her free hip is improving and looks like it will be competition ready by season. Would she need to do all these skills (she wants to!)? She also wants to have minimum kips and casts. I'm sort of clueless about bars and can't find any videos of level 8 bars with this combo of skills.

 

[Jard.the.gymnast]

Yes she can. Most people compete a pirouette, but you can also compete a flight element. Now, if she cannot do a pirouette, you have to think about the mount. The best mount would be to jump onto the high bar from the dismount mat (so she is facing the high and the low bar at the same time). Level 8 only requires an A dismount and a double back is a B.

 

[gfgymnast]

she can replace the pirouette with a shoot over, and can compete the double back dismount, but she will take a hit if she's not hitting a cast to handstand somewhere in the routine

 

[cassafrass]

Would doing the double back help at all? I'm thinking perhaps judges will be less harsh on the kip cast handstand. Also, is a cast handstand required? If not could a gymnast even get around doing it? My DD thinks I'm so dumb when I ask her this stuff!

 

[ascarter1]

My dd competed a double back in lv 8. I'd say we saw 50-70% of girls competing a double back dismount at competitions.

 

[Gymmom0403]

I don't believe you get bonus in level 8 so a layout dismount and a double back dismount "count" the same. Saying that My dd did do a double back dismount in level 8. It did help when she moved to level 9 last season.

 

[wallinbl]

Would doing the double back help at all? I'm thinking perhaps judges will be less harsh on the kip cast handstand. Also, is a cast handstand required? If not could a gymnast even get around doing it? My DD thinks I'm so dumb when I ask her this stuff!

The cast handstand comment was in relation to the difficulty with the pirouette.

 

[mariposa]

Would doing the double back help at all? I'm thinking perhaps judges will be less harsh on the kip cast handstand. Also, is a cast handstand required? If not could a gymnast even get around doing it? My DD thinks I'm so dumb when I ask her this stuff!

Any cast she does must hit handstand or she will get deductions, the closer to handstand, less deductions. There is no bonus in L8, so doing a double back vs a layout as the dismount won't matter. We saw lots of double back dismounts, but very rarely saw anything other than the pirouette.

 

[Gymmommy71]

The double back may make the routine look more "up to level" and compensate for the low casts. If the judges wanted to take deductions for the routine not looking Level 8 worthy, the double back may change their mind. IMO it would be worth doing it if it was solid.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Best routine with skills you describe:

Mount on high bar
Kip cast horizontal A
Shoot over B
Kip/squat on/jump to high A/A
Kip cast(whatever height she is capable) A
Clear hip handstand C(B if not handstand)
Giant/giant B/B
Double back dismount C

This limits her routine to one cast that will get deductions for height, as there is a special exception in the code for level 8's going into shootovers, no cast height deduction there.

There is a composition deduction at level 8 of up to 0.2 for lack of skills achieving or passing through handstand, but as long as her clear hip hits handstand and she does giants she shouldn't get that deduction, so just the execution deduction for height on the one cast.

Most of the competition at level 8 will be doing a C pirouette while she is doing a B shoot over, so doing the double back dismount for a C will help bring her routine up to the level of her competition. Worth including if safe and clean.

Had a level 8 years ago at the gym where I worked with no cast handstand. She did:
Kip cast horizontal
Clear hip handstand pirouette
Kip squat on
Kip cast horizontal
Clear hip handstand
Giant/giant
Flyaway

Was clean except for the two casts so was able to score in the mid to high 8's with it.

 

[QueenBee]

My dd competed a double back in lv 8. I'd say we saw 50-70% of girls competing a double back dismount at competitions.

That's interesting to hear because we saw very few double backs competed last season. It sounds like competing a double back may be very region specific for level 8. We only saw a number of double backs at Regionals.

 

[Tuppy]

I didn't see many overshoots or doublebacks. It would be a couple a session at most. There were meets I didn't see any. I actually thought everyone competed a pirouette, and I didn't realize you could substitute the overshoot instead. I agree that it's likely varies by area.

 

[gymmomx2]

In our area, girls who don't compete the pirouette do a Chinese/lightning/toe shoot/whateverelseitscalled from low to high bar. Those who do that tend to be older L8s.

Double backs are relatively rare. We are in a very competitive province and most gyms choose to do the easier/cleaner skills that score higher.

 

[Committed]

I don't recall ever seeing anything but a pirouette in L8. Double backs were not as common as I thought they would be as DDs gym does them regularly.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Are shootovers and double back dismounts commonly competed at level 8? I ask because historically DD has struggled with bars, but she is doing those skills nicely without spots. No way can she do a pirouette because her kip casts are very sub par. Her free hip is improving and looks like it will be competition ready by season. Would she need to do all these skills (she wants to!)? She also wants to have minimum kips and casts. I'm sort of clueless about bars and can't find any videos of level 8 bars with this combo of skills.

okay, I mean this in the kindest way. Her inability to do kip cast would be my major concern. She should stay in L7 until she masters that, or you will be running into more roadblocks ahead. Heck it's still early in the summer, she could 100 percent dedicate a few months to fixing the kip and cast and be done with it. I had a level 9 come to my gym who had HORRIBLE bent arm kips, and I mean horrible. She was put on a diet of straight arm kip cast to pike for several months, no other skills. She still struggles with her elbows a bit and misses a handstand here and there, but she is on the right track. Here she is today, not bad.

 

[wandrewsjr]

okay, I mean this in the kindest way. Her inability to do kip cast would be my major concern. She should stay in L7 until she masters that, or you will be running into more roadblocks ahead. Heck it's still early in the summer, she could 100 percent dedicate a few months to fixing the kip and cast and be done with it. I had a level 9 come to my gym who had HORRIBLE bent arm kips, and I mean horrible. She was put on a diet of straight arm kip cast to pike for several months, no other skills. She still struggles with her elbows a bit and misses a handstand here and there, but she is on the right track. Here she is today, not bad.

Love that dismount! Amazing height.

 

[gymgal]

I am with CoachP on this one - the CHS is an essential skill for the upper levels. Doing giants without a CHS is difficult. And you need good giants or a clear hip HS for a clean DB.

If she has her clear hip HS, she could do a pirouette from that: kip-cast-clear hip HS-turn-kip-jump to highbar-kip-cast-giants-dismount. This would give her the ability to compete 8 while still working on better cast HS.

Unless USAG is lifting the rules for the 2017-21 sequence, you can only have 1 C element other than several they note (Cast Handstand ½ turn, Clear hip circle/Back stalder/Pike sole circle bwd. to HS, all also with ½ turn). The double back and the overshoot are both C's so she could only compete one of those. I saw others refer to the overshoot as a B skill but I am almost positive all releases are at least a C.

I don't think I have ever seen an overshoot (shootover, bail, etc) in level 8. I have seen a few straddle backs that I wish I hadn't seen. Boy those look scary if not done right.

In our region, the highest competitive gyms have most of their girls doing db dismounts. And in general, about 30-40% of the gymnasts are doing one, depending on the gyms competing. It's hard to know for sure without talking to the judges directly but it appears that in our area, gymnasts generally are deducted for not having an upgraded dismount.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Overshoot from handstand to handstand is a D.
Overshoot from handstand but not to handstand is a C.
Overshoot neither starting from or finishing in handstand is a B.

 

[cassafrass]

Thanks everyone! Hers is a B for sure.

 

[ascarter1]

This is my dd's level 8 bar routine from last year. It was fairly aggressive, from what I witnessed throughout the season. She only competed it twice due to a season ending injury. I never have seen anything in place of a pirouette. Hope that helps.