WAG Long post- CGM and kicking out of program?

[Deleted member D3987]

Deep breath. At our gym it would be really odd for preteam to be working ro-BHS-BHS. Skills are not very important at that level, they are working on strength, conditioning, form, and perfecting shapes. I do hear your frustration, but I'm gonna play the devils advocate here. Posting all that information here, bringing it up four times--admit it, you really don't like this kid. Yes sounds like mom may be CGM. But no doubt mom and child can tell by watching the practices that you can't stand her kid. There is NOTHING worse for a parent of a preteam or team kid than having a coach who wants their child to fail to prove they are right. That would bring out a little crazy in even the best/mellowest of parents. It is unlikely that is is not showing in how you treat her child, despite your best efforts. Could that be contributing to her behavior flare up issues? Very likely. Are you sure she doesn't know that you hate having her in your group and resent that someone else put her there? Kids are sponges and pick up on a lot. I would think it's a horrible place for a parent to be in. Their child has a dream of competing on team. She has a coach who can't stand her and wants to see her fail to prove a point. Why are you so bothered by this in a preteam situation where the focus should be on strength and conditioning? Instead of focusing so much on kicking her out, why not challenge yourself to helping her do her best? Can you give her some strength homework to do at home? Does she have a pullup bar? Have you suggested it? Or you can continue on the warpath and eventually her love of the sport will get squashed.

huh? she didn't insinuate any of the above.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I didn't jump to that conclusion. The original poster was very honest and up front about that in her first post. Wow back atcha

Even though my first thought was to go to the parents and tell them that this class was just not working out, it is not my place and unfortunately I do not have the authority to do that. So, I brought it up during our coach's meetings......4 times. FOUR TIMES

I don't believe it was FOUR times in the same meeting.

I believe it was 4 coaches meetings and she expressed concern each time and each time the HC didn't take care of it. As in he did nothing.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Midwestmommy said: ↑
Sounds like within the first few weeks the you didn't want them there are started trying to get them kicked off.

Wow....lots of negative assumptions being made there. Jumping to these kinds of conclusions doesn't really help anyone. While you make some good points after that, the delivery is in such a thorny package, my guess is it won't be very well received. Wow.

See gymdog's post for reference...lots of info and advice offered; no insults or accusations.

I too am a devils advocate, I use that approach a lot in my life.

Here is the thing, I agree with seeker and gym dog.

And from a devils advocate position. Midwestmommy, it sounds like you are over-identifying with the parent/child in the situation and don't so much like the "coach".

 

[Midwestmommy]

huh? she didn't insinuate any of the above.

Oh, come on. What she did communicate really clearly is that she thought right away they didn't belong in the program, and that the person who placed them there made a mistake. And in staff meetings (4 of them) brought it up to try to get her out of the group, and didn't get anywhere with the owner and other coaches.

There little to no chance a ten year old kid didn't pick up on the fact a coach that doesn't want them there.

I don't like discounting this situation as "Suzie's mom" unless I have heard from Suzie's mom... the truth usually lies in the middle, because we all color our perceptions of what we see from our own experiences (me too). And I would be shocked Dunno if you didn't completely discount everything I say as a "dumb parent." That's OK, I'm used to it and it just makes me chuckle. Was kind of waiting for it, actually. Adds to the entertainment of the board, and I'm not offended. We aren't talking about an elite gymnast here, just another invisible kid from the "elite" perspective.

What we do know is that her methods of getting the girl off her team haven't worked, and maybe another approach would be more effective.

 

[Midwestmommy]

Idw4lmo And from a devils advocate position. Midwestmommy, it sounds like you are over-identifying with the parent/child in the situation and don't so much like the "coach".

Just because I dared to try to bring in the kid's and mom's possible perspectives doesn't mean I am over-identifying with the parent/child. I am not wrong because I didn't rush to agree and thought, hey step back and look at this from a different angle. I was actually thinking back more to what I was like when I first got in the corporate world and was a bit of a feisty one (I actually identify with the coach on that one)! That is something I could have seen myself doing some years back--bringing something up in meetings four different times and wondering why all the doorknobs would not agree with me and would not do what I wanted. Been there done that.

 

[skschlag]

I honestly think the bigger issue is the HC lack of back up for his coaches and inability to talk to parents Sounds like this coach is not allowed to discuss this with parents, so she went to hc who has refused to deal with it. This would be my biggest issue in this situation

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I don't so much think of those skills are preteam, but preteam is just a word. To me it sounds like our Level 2. Our gym doesn't have a preteam level. Kids filter in from the outside based on trial classes and our rec classes as the coaches deem ready. And they don't share a formal process.

We have a child who ADHD issues. Her grandmother says she is going to L2 forever. And getting her focus most days in a challenge and some days its just her in Pit sorting colors. But everyone manages. And grandma gets it and would never insist her granddaughter move just because the rest of the girls

We all have opinions on where are girls should be. A lot of times its not the same as the coaches think. You make your case. But ultimately the coach decides. My girl is a strong performer, most of the other parents always want her a level higher than their kids. Coaches want all the kids to have the skills required for the level and even my strong gymnast only has all skills for the level she is at. So we as parents defer to the coaches judgement.

They have to work with her and the whole group. I think if my daughter was lagging behind the rest of the group she wouldn't be able to get the attention she needed to keep and if she did it would be at a cost to the rest of the girls. Although we do have the conversation from time to time about if privates could address a specific skill if it was only one holding her back. Hasn't happened its fine.

We did have one girl last year that they weren't going to move. Quite honestly we all (all parents) felt she was really on the cusp of having all the skills and move time was 12 weeks from the first meet. The mom insisted (but crazily) and all us parents supported that. She moved and placed decently throughout the season. So its rare but occasionaly the coach with a strong case will take a chance.

This Mom clearly doesn't play well with others. While I am sure she has plenty of good reasons why she home schools, that she doesn't have to deal with others is a big one.

And gymnastics is not public school. It's a private business. Not obligated to keep everyone. No automatic promotions. And you can leave a kid back. And as a customer aka parent I decide if the gym is a good fit or not. If it is and I can commit to how they do things they get my money and I respect their rules and decisions. If not I go elsewhere.

Again we don't have any specific spelled outguidelines our coaches use to move kids beyond the USAG requirements for the Level.

But this gym does. Has a rather independent judging system with multiple coaches who don't actually coach the kids. The closest you can get to impartial. The child should go back and work on getting better.

 

[Midwestmommy]

I honestly think the bigger issue is the HC lack of back up for his coaches and inability to talk to parents Sounds like this coach is not allowed to discuss this with parents, so she went to hc who has refused to deal with it. This would be my biggest issue in this situation.
When a friend comes to me to ask about something, I don't tell them to go change someone else. They don't have the power to do that. They only have the power to change their own approach/strategies/focus.... She's in big trouble if her biggest issue is another person, because she can't change that. She can only change how she behaves and come up with some new tactics. For whatever reason, they (her bosses/other coaches) are not agreeing with her and/or aren't giving her what she wants. Time to try a different tactic. Because she will be super frustrated if it happens again (it will, may be something else or some other kid, but she won't feel like she is being heard)... if she hasn't found an approach that works better with the personalities involved at her workplace.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

There are two sides to every situation, folks. And reality usually lies somewhere in the middle. I need to remind myself of this at times as much as the next person. Coach Meg, you are reacting to what I am saying really defensively, but there could maybe be another way to take some of it...

Yep and you too are reacting rather defensively.

I am the middle. I get you have to deal with all kinds of personalties. I get redirection, giving a child what they need.

And the kid is not even close to meeting the requirements of the class even if was named the Blue class.

 

[sce]

Our pre-team requirements are:


I do not think any of that is unreasonable to get into pre-team? Do you?
That said, most of our pre-teamers are in the program for 1 year before moving to team. Some a little less, some a little more. However, if all the kids can at least do that ^^, it not only makes our job easier as coaches, but it allows us to work on harder skills as a group. That is why most of them now have ro-bhs a couple even have ro-bhs-bhs. Only one of them came in already being able to do that (she was a tumbler-but lacked beam/bar skills).

Btw, I coach beam and floor...which is why I'm referencing so much to tumbling skills.

Suzie did not have those skills when she joined. The mother pushed and pushed and our newbie coach gave in.

Sounds like what my dd had to be able to do to get on pre-team. As for the RO-Bhs and RO-BHSBHS. Out pre-teamers are learning BHS and RO-BHS. Some have more advanced tumbling skills and might be learning 2BHS or even front and back flips. Many kids come to the gym with tumbling only experience and have less skills on all the other events. Also, some kids just learn things unevenly. Some are quick to learn tumbling. So it does not seem unreasonable to me.

I will also say that it sounds like the gym has not handled this situation well. The Mom does sound unreasonable, but that has been made worse by her being given unrealistic expectations.

 

[skschlag]

Wow.. midwestmommy. It seems like you really do seem to want to lay this on all OP. I was just saying that as a coach, I would want to be on a team that worked together. HC needs to be able to deal with situations like this. That IS a problem. Especially if he won't let others handle it. So that is an issue. OP stated that she is not allowed to move the girl, or talk to the mom about her placement. OP feels like it is not a safe or productive place for the girl but can do nothing about it! SO she went to the one person who could, and said he would. He admitted he needed to talk to the mom, but didn't. OP asked if she could and was told no. YOu suggested a meeting to talk to mom with OP, but the hc has told OP that sh can't do that.

Fact is, kid is in the wrong group, and should be moved. Period. If mom doesn't like it, she can go to a new gym. But if it is the wrong group, it is the wrong group. And hc should back his coaches and be willing to help.

 

[sce]

bye, bye Suzie's mom....

Right? But the HC has not done this. So now CoachMeg is left in bad position.

 

[Midwestmommy]

But if it is the wrong group, it is the wrong group. And hc should back his coaches and be willing to help.

It sounds like he either isn't agreeing with her or isn't willing to take action. What I would not recommend is bringing it up again in a staff meeting for the 5th time, or she is going to start looking like the crazy one. What I would recommend is coming up with a plan, and asking the head coach if he is OK with it. Opportunity to handle a challenging situation. We can't eliminate them from our workplaces, we can only come up with ways to handle them (or leave if just gets too ridiculous)... Though frankly they pop up everywhere in all kinds of environments/businesses. These types of situations at our places of employment are the ones that are often "golden opportunities in disguise" if we can figure out how to navigate them with all the personalities involved.

 

[skschlag]

I think she did. She asked if she could sit down in a meeting with the mom to talk baobut it. HC said he should do it. HC said he knows he needs to talk to mom. So do it....

 

[Midwestmommy]

You're not talking to him though, you are talking to her!

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

There is nothing more frustrating for most hard-working, conscientious people than to have your integrity challenged. For this mom to lie about your actions and accuse you of not caring must be the biggest insult of your career. That stinks. A lot of teachers I know love their kids, have a really hard time learning to deal with parents!!!! Regardless of the girls skill level, class placement, evaluation results, etc., The HC has GOT to stand up for you as an employee. If you have given him NO reason to question your integrity, then Mom needs to be told nicely but firmly that her behavior (mom's behavior) will not be tolerated. I don't care how frustrated she is, or even if it's justified frustration, it's still bad behavior. If HC isn't willing to deal with it, then you are in a tough spot. Unfortunately, Suzie and Suzie's mom, are going to show up again at some point in the future. You and HC are going to have to find a way to work as a team, or you are going to burn out and decide coaching isn't for you. Most employees join a company and quit their boss. No different in a gym. I would focus now on learning what makes him tick and how to get him to support you. Kind of like "managing" your boss. @gymdog and others had some great advice. I hope you can find some nuggets that will help you through this.

 

[skschlag]

Right. and here is what we know:
1. we have a gymnast whose skills are not up to par with the class she was put into by a new employee.
2. coach has been setting up stations to help this girl gain skills she n eeds, even though she is the only girl who needs them
3. girl has behaviors in class, hiding when mom leaves, crying
4. OP has asked to talk to mom, hc refused.
5. op asked hc to talk to m, has not happened.
6. mom is upset that gymnast was not moved up.

so based on THAT information alone, I think that op needs to get hc to back her up, and that may mean bring more facts to him repeatedly utnil he does. This is not a safe situation, if there is a class better suited to her level. t our gym, she would have jsut been walked over to the other class and the coaches that were teaching would come out and explain to mom why this was a better fit. I have seen it happen all the time.

This makes no assumptions about anyone's behavior, intentions or treatment.

OP> I agree that you need to document everything and presnet it again to hc. also, maybe "homework" sheets would be good, individualized so that this girl can build some strength. I think that by settin gup stations for her and trying to help her, you are showing tht you want her to be a gymnast, just that being in this class is going to be hard fo rher.

 

[Midwestmommy]

She just needs to tread a little carefully, though, unless she is willing to quit her job over this or lose all her credibility with her boss and/or the other coaches. The other coaches and head coach either don't seem to be on board with her assessment or just aren't willing to take action. She needs to ask herself why and not shoot herself in the foot. Perceptions matter, and she is not getting support from the owner and other staff/coaches. Why not? That's the puzzle she needs to solve....

 

[skschlag]

OP...does HC agree that the girl should not have been placed? I hope it gets wworked out before she quits completely.

 

[GYM0M]

Interesting........

My thoughts.......(Spoiler alert: I will make some assumptions)

@ CoachMeg
A) I know it's frustrating. I've NEVER coached gymnastics, aside from being a sub in a preschool class a couple of times at an entirely rec facility, but I did work in said facility for 5 years and 'dealt' with many situations like you describe except that the 'team' was competitive dance or cheer. My 1st assumption is that some of your frustration is stemming from the 'newbie' coach stepping on your toes a bit by allowing this child into your class. I get it. It happens a lot. I used to get soooo mad when someone did my job for me, especially when they did it incorrectly!! Kudos for strategizing a plan to prevent future mix-ups as that is the best way to handle those kinds of things.
B) Even if you were to put on your best game face in practice, the child probably does sense some of the frustration, which in reality, only hinders a solution to the issues. This does not mean you are not an impartial coach or a negative Nancy to Susie, just that it is an unsettling situation.
C) yes, the child was inappropriately placed in the wrong group, but it is also important to mention that some children instinctively aim to please. If Suzie is one of these children, her frustration could also stem from her failing to gain your approval.
Ok now for some suggestions.....
I know that it is not your place & HC should have handled this a long time ago, but schedule a meeting with Suzie's mom & ask the HC to sit in with you as that will take some of the confrontation off of him and he will feel like he is just there as a backup. Lead off the meeting with an APOLOGY! Not saying that you owe her one, but so many things can be solved with a simple I'm sorry. Explain that you are sorry for Any miscommunications and for any perceived frustrations from you. Be sincere. Explain to her the list of criteria for pre-team. Show her the skills Suzie is lacking. Focus on safety, yes, but more over, focus on the progress Suzie has made in the time she's she's been in your class. Reassure mom that Suzie will get there, but she needs a little more time within this training group before she's moved up. Sincerely suggest strength exercises that can be performed at home that are within Suzie limits, think preschool class if need be & explain that once she's mastered these exercises that you will suggest more that will further develop her gymnastics. Maybe use the analogy of a preterm baby born, as in the infant needs extra time and strength to catch up to his/her peers.
D) I'm going to assume that you will soon have a new group of preteam era entering into this group in the near future. Explain to mom that as Suzie progresses, she will see the gap between skills begin to fade. Simply, she needs more time. Set Suzie some individual goals to work on. Make her a chart to take home. In my experience, parents respond best when they perceive thoughtfulness and effort, even when
The air is thick and tension is taut. If you challenge yourself to make Suzie your 'special' case, her success will bring you much more satisfaction than getting your way in this manner. Again, I understand this situation is wrought with lemons, but I truly believe that you are a professional lemonade maker! Just gotta do it! I promise, by offering alternative solutions and working through this with HC, new coach, Suzie and her mom, you will get so much more out of it! Where there's a will, there's always a way. Woosau! Suzie will get there and if she doesn't at least you can leave the situation knowing that you did everything in your professional power and ability to encourage, help, and push her to be the best she could be. You do not want to have any regrets! the air is thick and