WAG Normal coaching behavior at meets

[curlymomof3]

Hi all,
My Dd had her first optional meet a few days ago. Her normal coach was there as well as the head coach who never works with her. She is still a little weak on bars due to bent legs and is working to improve. During warm-up on bars, the HC noticed her bent legs and told her he would throw her out of the rest of the meet if they were bent when she competed. Of course she was a little shaken up by this and it got in her head, causing her to perform poorly on both bars and her last event, beam. She told me she was so worried about making the HC upset that she just wanted to get off the floor and is scared to work with him in the future. Is this normal optional coach behavior? I expected the expectations to be higher but my gut tells me this is not acceptable. I did email the HC about my concerns and he says he doesn't recall saying that to Dd . What do you think?

 

[Ali'sMom]

If a coach that was "in charge" whom my DD was not extremely familiar with said that, she'd be shaken too. (kind of like getting threatened by the principal as opposed to the teacher that you know every day).
We're still in compulsories, and I'm sure it's stricter as they hit optionals, but I can't see how saying something like that would be good?
I mean, our coach says at the meets "If you fall of the beam, I'm bringing duct tape next week"...

 

[Seeker]

No, that is not normal. Or acceptable. Does this coach have the reputation for being like this?

 

[LizzieLac]

I think coaches simply run out of, or even forget to say, positive things rather than negative. Our coaches say things not unlike that, but are really just kidding. They forget that some kids are sensitive and take those things very seriously.

I believe our coaches truly care about our girls and want them to do well, but sometimes the mouth engages before the brain.

There are other instances when the kids hear things differently than the way the coach says them. It is really hard, as a parent, to hear about things second-hand. I would look at this coach's behavior at practice and/or ask other parents about their experience before jumping to a conclusion...

 

[curlymomof3]

Yes, I have been warned by others (even Dunno knows him) that he can be verbally abusive but I have not seen that side of him until now. He is very good at hiding it. Dd is only 10 so she is still at the coach pleasing stage and it really shook her up. Just wondering if this is just normal optional coach talk that Dd needs to get used to or if it is a giant red flag.

He also told Dd's teammate that she needed to apologize to him for being down on herself. She was struggling holding back some tears after a fall on beam. He approached her later after the meet and told her that.

 

[Seeker]

Those mental games will not end well if kids are subject to them long term. Kids don't get the "just kidding" part and adult coaches should know better. I also don't believe they're just kidding either. I think they're likely so used to being verbally abusive that they don't even notice when they make these comments that make some kids very upset. The coach can't even remember saying it, but your 10-yr old won't forget it any time soon.

Bottom line -- it's not appropriate and it's not okay. If he's not her primary coach, maybe she can be shielded from him for the time being, but long term, that would be an untenable situation for me.

 

[aerials]

Wow. Not normal at all. He barely knows her or works with her and then decides to threaten her during a meet!? How does he expect her to compete after that?

 

[littlegirlsdream]

Well I suspect if you have been warned about this by people with experience in the gymnastics community than you likely have your answer.

 

[mimi]

Sometimes coaches can say things that kids take the wrong way, but in this circumstance it seems pretty inappropriate. If he theoretically was joking it would seem to me very poor timing right before she competes to say something like that.

 

[curlymomof3]

I had been warned and this coach has admitted to having issues in the past. However, he has promised the parents that he is working on being a better coach and I totally believed him and was willing to give him a chance. Dd moved to this gym as a level 4 a year ago and optionals seemed so far away; I guess a part of me hoped that he wouldn't be the coach by the time she got to his level. He is going to start coaching Dd's group on bars so here we are. We will probably have to make some difficult decisions at the end of this season if things don't change. The nearest other "optional" gym is 45 minutes from our house which would require an even greater sacrifice on our part with 2 other children to run around. I just wish we had other options

 

[Deleted member 14190]

First off, I support scratching kids if they are not up to standard. It is done in every sport every day.... Oddly, just this weekend I had one of my parents ask me, why her DD's legs were bent and toes not pointed on bars..... So you see, it's a double edged sword for us (coaches). However; my reply is always the same in whatever action (or non action) I take. "Why don't you ask your DD, because I tell her a hundred times a day".....

 

[curlymomof3]

First off, I support scratching kids if they are not up to standard. It is done in every sport every day.... Oddly, just this weekend I had one of my parents ask me, why her DD's legs were bent and toes not pointed on bars..... So you see, it's a double edged sword for us (coaches). However; my reply is always the same in whatever action (or non action) I take. "Why don't you ask your DD, because I tell her a hundred times a day".....

I somewhat understand scratching a gymnast that you know can do better and is just being lazy. But that is different than showing up at a meet and telling a gymnast that you never work with that you will throw her out of the meet for not being up to your standards, especially when her normal coaches' standards are no where near the perfection you desire.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I somewhat understand scratching a gymnast that you know can do better and is just being lazy. But that is different than showing up at a meet and telling a gymnast that you never work with that you will throw her out of the meet for not being up to your standards, especially when her normal coaches' standards are no where near the perfection you desire.

==
I would tend to agree if it were throwing a big skill, or hitting a cast height, etc... But getting your legs straight isn't an unreasonable request is it? Did she at least do better when he/she asked this of her?

 

[curlymomof3]

Nope. No change. And she didn't make her connections either because she was so flustered. Beam, which is usually her best event, was awash as well. She was just done at that point. Just try to understand a little bit how this feels to a 10-year old that was so excited for her first optional meet; it was almost like Christmas morning. And then to be told by a stranger that you would get thrown out of the meet for bent legs. I've heard that optionals is a totally different ball game but I was not expecting it to be so brutal at Level 6!

 

[Natasha]

I had been warned and this coach has admitted to having issues in the past. However, he has promised the parents that he is working on being a better coach and I totally believed him and was willing to give him a chance. Dd moved to this gym as a level 4 a year ago and optionals seemed so far away; I guess a part of me hoped that he wouldn't be the coach by the time she got to his level. He is going to start coaching Dd's group on bars so here we are. We will probably have to make some difficult decisions at the end of this season if things don't change. The nearest other "optional" gym is 45 minutes from our house which would require an even greater sacrifice on our part with 2 other children to run around. I just wish we had other options

So he promised he is working on being a better coach. How exactly is he doing this? Seeking counseling/mentoring/accountability? Change does not just happen on its own and giving him a chance is okay, but there needs to be accountability (peer coach or something). I would keep a close eye (and ear) on things for the remainder of the season.

 

[littlegirlsdream]

It is Interesting to me that the coach threatened to kick her out of the meet if she didn't change it and she didn't change it and the coach did not infact kick her out. I am not saying the coach should have but I am saying if a coach threatens something, or says there is a consiquence for something and then there actually isn't what was accomplished? The gymnast is rattled, does not succeed and the coach doesn't follow through with threat anyway. So what was the point? I can see telling a kid at practice change it or you won't compete but doing it at the event when you know you won't actually pull her doesn't seem like the best practice.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Nope. No change. And she didn't make her connections either because she was so flustered. Beam, which is usually her best event, was awash as well. She was just done at that point. Just try to understand a little bit how this feels to a 10-year old that was so excited for her first optional meet; it was almost like Christmas morning. And then to be told by a stranger that you would get thrown out of the meet for bent legs. I've heard that optionals is a totally different ball game but I was not expecting it to be so brutal at Level 6!

Are you sure that the exact words were used? Sorry but if the coach really is as tough as you say then I would expect him to follow through. So I conclude that the truth of what was said could of been somewhere in between? Regardless of everything, if your dd is serious about gym then the legs need to be dealt with now.

 

[bogwoppit]

Well the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

HC has shown you what kind of person he is, question is are you going to let him do that again?

 

[curlymomof3]

Are you sure that the exact words were used? Sorry but if the coach really is as tough as you say then I would expect him to follow through. So I conclude that the truth of what was said could of been somewhere in between? Regardless of everything, if your dd is serious about gym then the legs need to be dealt with now.

Coachp I've been on this board long enough to know how much you love to play devil's advocate. Of course I don't know the exact words that were said. However, I did sit at the judges table to time for another session at this meet and heard him make similar threats to other gymnasts that he coaches everyday. He is also notorious for not allowing his level 9s and 10s compete if they are even a minute later than 30 minutes early to a meet. Perhaps he realized that it wasn't his place to make the threat and decided not to follow through. And, yes, of course I know that bent legs need to be dealt with but not at a meet! I'm starting to sound like a broken record...

 

[curlymomof3]

Well the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

HC has shown you what kind of person he is, question is are you going to let him do that again?

Bog, this is where it gets so hard without any other options of gyms close by. I emailed him about my concerns and cc'd the owners so hopefully that helps! Without going into too much detail, I know he has given them grief in the past so they really want to know if there are issues. I have found myself wondering if this sport is all worth it once again.