WAG Open Letter to USAG Regarding Bars Spotting Regulations

[Aussie_coach]

In our competitions (Australia) level 4 girls do a jump to high bar then three tap swings to a long hang pullover. So similar skills but at a less advanced level. We are allowed to stand there, even put hands out right in front of and behind the gymnasts to catch them and there is no deductions unless we actually catch the gymnasts. Very few coaches do stand there though.

 

[chalkbowl]

I coach in NY and it's VERY VERY common for coaches to stand between the bars during routines and never once have I heard of a judge taking a deduction for it. Our own HC always stands between the bars..

 

[lhmom]

My daughter is competing level 5 this season and I noted that her coach is there by the high bar, standing close enough to grab. I have not heard that this is considered a deduction where we are at. I can't believe that this is a deduction! Safety should come first.

 

[coachmolly]

Well written letter, kudos to you for taking some initiative. I haven't coached USAG kiddos for the last year and halfish so I'm not up to date on all the ins and outs anymore, but it sounds like this is a rule that could really use some clarification. Tap swings are scary, especially for little bitties who have quite a distance to drop and the presence of a coach could make a BIG difference in the outcome. Goodness, I stand by the bars when my HS kids are working tap swings! Let us know what you hear back.

 

[JBS]

This is a great reason to get the girls to optionals...NO COUNTER SWINGS!...just go all the way around the bar.

I spot...no deductions. I believe this rule has been eliminated for compulsories. If there is a question...just inform the judges that you will be moving in and out of the bars to spot the dangerous skills. Pull the board...move in for the squat on and counter swings and then move out. You did not stand between the bars for the duration of the routine and you are allowed to move in for dangerous skills.

Once again...I thought this was only an optional level rule though.

 

[JBS]

I don't have my book on me right now. Can someone please post the exact line and the exact text of the deduction as it appears in the book?

 

[monkeysmom]

Thought you might find this article interesting. Over in Minnesota, this rule change happened after some catastrophic injuries to high school kids in hockey games got a lot of media attention there. It is sad that it took serious injuries to initiate action.

Minnesota Hockey extends penalty pilot program for 2012-13 season | Minnesota Hockey

 

[krisnkids]

I can see why this is an issue, but I'm not sure if it should be. At your gym is there always a coach spotting each and ever tap swing that a child does? After a child is proficient, most coaches that I have seen allow the child to practice the skill during bar rotation on their own. I understand that during competitions that a child can become nervous and mistakes they don't normally do happen, but I could also see a child 'going for it more' because she knows the coach is there just in case.

 

[JBS]

I can see why this is an issue, but I'm not sure if it should be. At your gym is there always a coach spotting each and ever tap swing that a child does? After a child is proficient, most coaches that I have seen allow the child to practice the skill during bar rotation on their own. I understand that during competitions that a child can become nervous and mistakes they don't normally do happen, but I could also see a child 'going for it more' because she knows the coach is there just in case.

We provide extra matting during training. An extra 4" skill cushion is present under our low rail at the gym on one set and the other sets are pit or resi. No guarantee that an injury will not happen...but it reduces the chance of injury.

As far as "going for it more"...great...I'll catch them.

Also...many times peeling is not a mistake...it is an accident...like slipping on ice.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I don't have my book on me right now. Can someone please post the exact line and the exact text of the deduction as it appears in the book?

hey JB, it's in there. i had "you know who" pull it out last night. it's in the JO handbook. i had to check to see it in writing. the funny thing is, i've seen coaches stand between the bars everywhere i go and i was not even aware that the judges may have been taking a deduction.

 

[JBS]

Girls Peeling off the Bar on a Tap Swing!!! « Coaching Gymnastics in the New Millennium

 

[monkeysmom]

I found this statement at the bottom of the skills requirement in at least one states's Xcel rules. Why the heck would coaches NOT do this? I'd rather have my daughter penalized by judges who don't know the rules (or do know the rules) than get injured.


It is highly recommended that coaches stand in between the bars for Squat-on’s.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

well, that's a different skill. but the intent is the same. when they jump to the high bar, there is a chance that they could peel off immediately upon catching the bar when swinging forward the high bar. this is where it is more likely than not that peeling off takes place on this particular skill. and yes, if there grip is not so good, and they swing forward and then backward, there is also a risk that they could peel off on the back swing. so then, if they make it past the forward swing from the high bar and then swing back and peel off, that would be considered a basic swing.

 

[JBS]

Page 163...section VIII...#4 of the JO Compulsory Program book used to read:

Coach standing between the bars or next to the beam throughout exercise 0.10

Now it reads:

Coach standing next to the beam throughout exercise 0.10

Here is the change...

163 Gen. Ded. VIII. Deductions taken from the average by Chief Judge- #4: delete "between the bars or"

The above is here: http://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Junior%20Olympics/w-2005compulsory-errata.pdf

You can see the full JO compulsory update page here: :: USA Gymnastics :: Women's JO Compulsory Book Updates ::

I found this link by going through here: Keeping Current - Technical Information - National Association of Women’s Gymnastics Judges

 

[AmandaLynn]

Page 163...section VIII...#4 of the JO Compulsory Program book used to read:



Now it reads:



Here is the change...



The above is here: http://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Junior Olympics/w-2005compulsory-errata.pdf

You can see the full JO compulsory update page here: :: USA Gymnastics :: Women's JO Compulsory Book Updates ::

I found this link by going through here: Keeping Current - Technical Information - National Association of Women’s Gymnastics Judges

Thank you for that information!

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Whaaa? When was that change made? I was not aware of that!

Even still, I think more should be done to encourage coaches to stand between the bars during a routine.

 

[JBS]

Whaaa? When was that change made? I was not aware of that!

Even still, I think more should be done to encourage coaches to stand between the bars during a routine.

2005...

Yes...I agree...kids hit the ground all the time at meets.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

like i said, i didn't know if it was a deduction or not. i had to ask. but we always have stood wherever we needed to stand regardless of whether there was a deduction or not. there are just some things that are not driven by deductions. if the ends, spotting, justify the means, preventing injury, then you just do it cause were coaches.

i also wanted to briefly comment about something that was said about Dr. Bill Sands in that posted thread. I know him personally and there is no way he would be an advocate of NOT spotting considering the level and certain ages of these kids. i felt that the thread poster was leveling an unfair opinion about someone he clearly does not know. that's all.

 

[profmom]

After reading this whole thread, I am so glad that during our whole L6 season last year, the bars coach was right there for warmups and routines for both tap swings and flyaways. If I am remembering right, a couple of girls over the course of the year did get physical spots on flyaways that started off low (and spent a loooooong time at the next few practices doing dead cow drills!). Much better a low score than an injury.

 

[flipflopsalto]

I agree that coaches should stand between the bar, my question is what age/level/size would you stop standing between bars?? Are we talking all level 5/6 or just tiny level 5/6's or everyone up to level 8/9, elite..... I do not even have gymnasts of these levels as I am coaching girls about level 3/4 bar skills, just curious for when these girls improve!