Questions to ask Coach why DD is repeating level 4

[NGL780309]

I was using the repeat level 4 as an example of the only level 4 that repeated this year. Generally everyone is moved up. She just didn't have a consistent bar routine.

My question was regarding more a kid who has all her skills though they could use some polish. Many were stating it was good to repeat while uptraining, but is it good to repeat if there is no uptraining at all? More specifically, I'd like my DD to be a repeat Level 4. Is it bad that they don't do any uptraining? And my any I really mean none.

 

[emacmommy]

Alot of timing on move up depends on when your competitive season is. Here the compulsory girls are done in Dec., so they spend from Jan to May working on skills/routines for the next level. Since the compulsory season here starts the 1st weekend of Sept. move ups have been done and the new compulsory teams are set.

As to the OP. I personally don't like the idea of girls spending 4 yrs before getting to L6(2 yrs each at 4 and 5). Just trying to stack the team with 2nd yr. girls to place well at meets doesn't really benefit the gymnast. Some kids are ready for the move to the next level after 1 yr. and others do need 2 yrs, but it should be based more on what skills they have, focus and work ethic----not what will make the gym look good.

I want to ad that this was in the spotlight at the Regional Chair Meeting this last May. Will probably be brought up significantly at USAG Regional and National Congresses. If you read the National JO Committee Minutes the following was proposed and passed to add to the 2010-2011 Rules and Policies...


Recommendation to adopt the following statement and add to the 2010

​

​

‐11 Rules and Policies and the​

2013 ​

Compulsory Book.​

Motion: B. Harris​

Second: J. Geddert

PASSED
​

​

In the spirit of good sportsmanship, fairness to all athletes and competitive balance, the mobility system
within the National JO Program should be followed in the manner that it was intended.
- ​

Before moving up a level, every athlete should show proficiency at their current level.​

- ​

Once a high level of proficiency is achieved at the athlete’s current level, she should strive to move up​

to the next level as long as it is done safely.​

​

- ​

For athletes to repeat a level with the intent to gain an advantage over other competitors or teams IS
NOT in the spirit of the JO Program or youth sports in general.​

As you can clearly say it says a high level of proficiency (which is very objective and open to interpretation), but it clearly states holding athletes to repeat so a team can win or gain significant reputation is not in the spirit of the JO program. ​

If you look at the mobility requirements you can get an idea of what USAG JO Program considers to be proficient, which isn't very proficient in my opinion. I think it is about a 7.75 average to move up from L5 but states a 75% of skill mastery for L1 - L3 to compete as a Level 4. The JO Program is meant as a guideline for progressions to a higher level gymnastics and the "ego" gyms have twisted is to win, win, win, regardless of what is right for the child. ​

I am in Wyoming, we aren't very competitive as a state, but we have set some standards in our gym more than the JO Mobility requirements. We refer to NO SCORES as a criteria to move up. Ultimately it is stated that we have the perogotive to state who is ready to move up. Our compulsory season is Fall to Dec, but they compete past that. After the last meet of the year these past few seasons, we have lifted all Level Labels off our compulsory girls. Until summer they keep their same training times but we work on progress, progress, progress. We tell them they have all summer to proves to us what level they want to be, repeating or move up. Us coaches keep their training and progress pace safe... girls progessing so much to skip a level has never happened to us, so not sure what we would do if that happened. It really sets the fire under those that want it, and points out those who are content to be average.​

Works for us in our small community. I will say my own MoJo gymmie is proving to be the content to be average. She did repeat Level 4 last year as above average but not the best and while she says she wants to move, she isn't showing the initiative and desire to do what she has to do to get her Level 5 skills, mainly the kips. Frustrating for me as the coach, but it is what it is. Now I have to evaluate the "safety issue" there. Technically she is safe not making the kips, but it isn't the standard we want as a gym to move our gymnasts. I'm not holding her back to win, but she doesn't have everything she needs as a Level 5. Really just the kips tho. Ah, what to do with this little problem child I love dearly. ​

​

 

[drivingmom]

I LOVE THIS- Thanks for the info.
Recommendation to adopt the following statement and add to the 2010‐11 Rules and Policies and the2013 Compulsory Book.

Motion: B. Harris​

Second: J. Geddert

PASSED
​

In the spirit of good sportsmanship, fairness to all athletes and competitive balance, the mobility system
within the National JO Program should be followed in the manner that it was intended.​

Before moving up a level, every athlete should show proficiency at their current level.​

- Once a high level of proficiency is achieved at the athlete’s current level, she should strive to move upto the next level as long as it is done safely.



For athletes to repeat a level with the intent to gain an advantage over other competitors or teams ISNOT in the spirit of the JO Program or youth sports in general.​

 

[cher062]

I would just ask the coach if there is any word on when everyone will be notified as to if the girls are moving up. I know at my old gym nothing was said until mid Aug. At our new gym if your uptraining (working on next level skills) they will move you up as soon as you get the skills needed to compete. In the mean time you can still compete your current level while working on the next level.

Really it doesn't look like a pushy parent to ask about your childs progress. It looks like a parent that cares about their child and is preparing for the next level (which usually involves more time, harder skills and more support from mom and dad)

 

[Aussie_coach]

I don't think its silly to have a level that pretty much all gymnasts repeat, many gyms have this.

Here in Australia uptraining is the expectation. Very few gyms would have a kid move up before they already had ALL the skills down for the next level. There is at least 6 months difference between learning a skill and having it to the point where it can be competed deduction free.

Basically here the expectation is that if a child is level 4, they already have their level 5 skills and are working to perfect them while training level 4, and also beginning to learn and work on the level 6 skills.

 

[Bajanswife]

Our gym moves kids quickly through levels 2 and 3, but once they are at level 4 they may stay there 2 years, because the transition from level 4 to 5 is a much bigger one than from 2 to 3 or 3 to 4. DD is moving to level 4 over the summer even though she isn't a fantastic level 3, because level 4 only adds on a few new things to existing level 3 skills, it's not a huge jump. My DD is very strong, and so she got the BHS very quickly - she's just working on attaching it to the CWRO now. She's still trying to get her mill circle done consistently, and without a bent front leg, and her front hip circle needs work. On beam she just needs to get the level 4 dismount (the twist seems to confuse all the girls at first, and DD isn't staying up straight in her handstand well enough to just add the twist easily), and on vault it's just tidying up.

I figure it can't be easy to know if girls who have just moved into a new level will be able to compete on all apparatus in time for the first meet of the season, so maybe keeping them in the old level officially means that they can always compete that if they aren't ready. Putting them squarely into the new level and having them compete when they just don't have the routines down properly may be demotivating. I don't know, I'm no coach, and I'm a very inexperienced gym parent, but I can see why coaches may keep kids at their old level for longer than one season.

I don't think there's only one answer here - there are plenty of pros and cons either way, and each gymnast is an individual. I personally think that each gymnast should be moved according to their own needs, not according to some arbitrary rule. OTOH, unless a gymnast is a real star and is going places fast, I don't see the harm in repeating a level such as 4, to make sure that core skills are sound before moving any further. Even the strong level 4s could possible benefit from that extra time getting the most out of level 4 before moving up (assuming uptraining to level 5 is happening at the same time).