WAG Regional Percentages Question - R8

[wallinbl]

Read the meeting minutes. It's not a secret society. Representatives from each state meet, propose ideas, and they get voted on. They meet again, propose adjustments, vote on them and repeat. As to why it's not adjusted yearly - these people have their own gyms to run.

 

[ProudDad]

Read the meeting minutes. It's not a secret society. Representatives from each state meet, propose ideas, and they get voted on. They meet again, propose adjustments, vote on them and repeat. As to why it's not adjusted yearly - these people have their own gyms to run.

In my prior post I alluded to reading through all the minutes and I can clearly see where they proposed the numbers and they were sustained, just not how they got to them in the first place.

I'm not suggesting the Illuminati are behind regional numbers in a bid for Olympic domination, just curious on the rationale behind them such that the members even know that number is reasonable.

 

[wallinbl]

In my prior post I alluded to reading through all the minutes and I can clearly see where they proposed the numbers and they were sustained, just not how they got to them in the first place.

I'm not suggesting the Illuminati are behind regional numbers in a bid for Olympic domination, just curious on the rationale behind them such that the members even know that number is reasonable.

They're running a regionals meet for three levels that can basically run from Friday to Sunday. USAG publishes limits to how many gymnasts per session based on level, and constraints around the length of sessions (as well as how late they're allowed to run). The allocation per level really just comes down to the ratio of girls at each of the levels. That gets revised every so often, and may need revising soon since level 6 is a new construct and there isn't historical data for its popularity (other than possibly looking at Xcel). While they could run multiple gyms (what you alluded to with venue size), that would double the capacity, and that's way too many.

 

[gymbeam]

I promise I'm not trying to be difficult, just genuinely curious...

In 2015, NC had 143 Level 7 gymnasts score higher than 32AA at the state meet.
In 2015, SC had 85 Level 7 gymnasts score higher than 32AA at the state meet.
In 2015, FL had 309 Level 7 gymnasts score higher than 32AA at the state meet.
In 2015, GA had 207 Level 7 gymnasts score higher than 32AA at the state meet.

Ignoring the other states (no offense intended, I just got my number well above what's needed) that means that well over 744 gymnasts meet the 32AA minimum (likely closer to 900)... so why the 262?

I'm getting a little confused reading this thread, but are you still thinking the state meet determines the percentage each state gets to send to regionals? The percentage is determined prior to the state meet and is calculated by using numbers that coaches report to them about a week before states. Coaches must report how many of their 7 & 8 gymnasts scored at least a 32 during the season and how many scored a 34 during the season and that's what's used to determine how many each state gets to take to regionals. It's their attempt to control for the number of gymnasts in each state as well as the talent pool in each state.

I apologize if this isn't where you're confused- like I said- my brain started turning to mush reading all these numbers! Lol

 

[Deleted member 18037]

So you could not go to states and still go to regionals ???? Or are those numbers prior to states determine how many from states go to regionals?

 

[gymbeam]

Right- those numbers determine what number will go to regionals from states. For example we knew NC would take the 52 highest scores at Level 7 state meet this year. That number was released about a week before states.

That's why it is different each year and not known until right before regionals.

 

[ProudDad]

Right- those numbers determine what number will go to regionals from states. For example we knew NC would take the 52 highest scores at Level 7 state meet this year. That number was released about a week before states.

That's why it is different each year and not known until right before regionals.

And I get that 52 was based on the percentage derived from the number of NC athletes in level 7 that had a 34+ AA score submitted to the regional committee prior to March 15. Where they decided that the total number of level 7 gymnasts who could compete was 347.

How they decided 347 was the magic number is where my curiosity lies. The last few posts more or less cover that it's a logistics thing... if a total of 1200 gymnasts can be hosted (made up number)... then the committee just decides that each level gets so much of the pie.

Unless they have additional meets with less levels per meet that means 32 - 36.5 may not be good enough to make regionals even if 32 is how they got the percentage in the first place, just because other levels get a bigger slice relative to their population.

Clear as mud?

 

[gymbeam]

Gotcha! Phew!

And if they ever made regionals so big that 32s-35ish were going then it would be pretty meaningless so I prefer it stay the range it's in now don't you?

 

[gymgal]

So you could not go to states and still go to regionals ???? Or are those numbers prior to states determine how many from states go to regionals?

No, you have to go to state meet in order to qualify for Regionals. The top ___ scoring gymnasts(different for each level and state) go to our Regionals in L 6-8.

That's why it is different each year and not known until right before regionals.

Gymbean, I know you know this, just clarifying for others reading it...

not known until right before *state meet*., not Regionals. The girls who qualify for Regionals know it by the end of their state meet, though they have to wait until all the sessions are compete for that level to know for sure.

The number of spots are released a couple weeks before the state meet.

 

[gymbeam]

not known until right before *state meet*. The girls who qualify for Regionals know it by the end of their state meet, though they have to wait until all the sessions are compete for that level to know for sure.

The number of spots are released a couple weeks before the state meet.

Oops! Typo!

 

[ProudDad]

Gotcha! Phew!

And if they ever made regionals so big that 32s-35ish were going then it would be pretty meaningless so I prefer it stay the range it's in now don't you?

For sure I don't think regionals should be the full width... otherwise we'd just call it State 2.0 I'm just looking at the idea that 52/169 L7 go making 36.775 the cutoff...

For L6 we are sending 22/~150ish a much tighter range for the same number of gymnasts. Looking at the Charleston Cup combined with Everest Classic... which I think is a decent (but still not full) representation of R8 that means a 37.350 would be the cutoff... While I think it would be great from a spectator standpoint... It could be demoralizing for some girls.

For example, with that cutoff and those two meets, only 5 of 171 Senior division girls would make the cut and Child division is only a little better, but the Juniors clean up - its fair and those are the rules... but it doesn't make the odds suck any less for the theoretical group that wouldn't make it. If you expand the numbers to allow 10 more bids (32/~150) the ages even out a lot more and high 36 is in. Now that sounds like a great competition that rewards the best without making it so exclusive...

 

[gymratmom]

I am so confused?! Can someone break down how exactly the regional qualifiers work? My gymnast is level 7 in GA. Do they take top scores in each age group? Or is it across the board? Who makes up the team qualifiers? And what is Allstars?

 

[gymbeam]

For sure I don't think regionals should be the full width... otherwise we'd just call it State 2.0 I'm just looking at the idea that 52/169 L7 go making 36.775 the cutoff...

For L6 we are sending 22/~150ish a much tighter range for the same number of gymnasts. Looking at the Charleston Cup combined with Everest Classic... which I think is a decent (but still not full) representation of R8 that means a 37.350 would be the cutoff... While I think it would be great from a spectator standpoint... It could be demoralizing for some girls.

For example, with that cutoff and those two meets, only 5 of 171 Senior division girls would make the cut and Child division is only a little better, but the Juniors clean up - its fair and those are the rules... but it doesn't make the odds suck any less for the theoretical group that wouldn't make it. If you expand the numbers to allow 10 more bids (32/~150) the ages even out a lot more and high 36 is in. Now that sounds like a great competition that rewards the best without making it so exclusive...

OK- I'm starting to see what you're getting at. If you're correct in predicting 37.3 as the cut off for 6 this year, then coincidentally that is exactly what is was for Level 7 last year. Just an FYI that doesn't really mean anything. Just a coincidence.

 

[gymgal]

I am so confused?! Can someone break down how exactly the regional qualifiers work? My gymnast is level 7 in GA. Do they take top scores in each age group? Or is it across the board? Who makes up the team qualifiers? And what is Allstars?

it is the top however many slots regardless of age division. At the end of the state meet, the scores are listed highest to lowest and the top 8 become the state team. Then each state is awarded another set of slots (the all-stars) based on how many gymnasts they have in that level. Again, these slots are awarded based on that list of high to low scores. States like MS only get the 8 team slots because they have such small number of gymnasts competing at each level. FL has the largest amount of girls competing so they get a higher number of slots.

 

[gymbeam]

I am so confused?! Can someone break down how exactly the regional qualifiers work? My gymnast is level 7 in GA. Do they take top scores in each age group? Or is it across the board? Who makes up the team qualifiers? And what is Allstars?

It will be the top scores across all age groups (and I can't remember how many that is for Georgia this year, but I know it's more than NC who is sending 52.) Of those, the top 8 are called your "State Team" and will compete in a seperate session against the other 7 state teams. All the other qualifying gymnasts are referred to as "All Stars" and will compete in other sessions in the normal age-group fashion.

 

[gymratmom]

Thanks!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

[QUOTE="ProudDad, post: 451017, member: 19104"] Looking at the Charleston Cup combined with Everest Classic...

For example, with that cutoff and those two meets, only 5 of 171 Senior division girls would make the cut and Child division is only a little better, but the Juniors clean up - its fair and those are the rules... but it doesn't make the odds suck any less for the theoretical group that wouldn't make it. If you expand the numbers to allow 10 more bids (32/~150) the ages even out a lot more and high 36 is in. Now that sounds like a great competition that rewards the best without making it so exclusive...[/QUOTE]

Those meets don't matter regarding cut offs, scores at States do. And it's suppose to be more exclusive, it's Regionals.

Again, all regions don't have Regionals at all for L6, at least Region 6 doesn't as of yet.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

Those meets don't matter regarding cut offs, scores at States do. And it's suppose to be more exclusive, it's Regionals.

I agree. You never know what will happen at States! I think it is great that they have a Level 6 Regional meet and I think the numbers seem reasonable to me. But I do think it is safe to say that Southeastern will be well represented at Level 6 Regionals.

 

[gymdog]

I promise I'm not trying to be difficult, just genuinely curious...



In 2015, NC had 143 Level 7 gymnasts score higher than 32AA at the state meet.
In 2015, SC had 85 Level 7 gymnasts score higher than 32AA at the state meet.
In 2015, FL had 309 Level 7 gymnasts score higher than 32AA at the state meet.
In 2015, GA had 207 Level 7 gymnasts score higher than 32AA at the state meet.

Ignoring the other states (no offense intended, I just got my number well above what's needed) that means that well over 744 gymnasts meet the 32AA minimum (likely closer to 900)... so why the 262? Nothing on the site or in this document indicates why the seemingly arbitrary number of 262+ all ties is selected? Do they just take ~30%... if so great I have an answer, but nothing I can find officially documents how that number was picked.

They stated there will be 4 sessions. Any USAG sanctioned meet has a maximum number of competitors allowed during any given session. I believe for a completely level 7 meet it is 64 but could be wrong off the top of my head so the 262 is actually a little over 64x4 but maybe they rely on scratches. The only way to increase the number would be to allocate more sessions or another weekend. I think this is just the max number of sessions they can accommodate and nothing more.

 

[Gym Beam]

Again, all regions don't have Regionals at all for L6, at least Region 6 doesn't as of yet.

Region 1 does not have L6 Regionals as well. I thought that was the case for all regions, but apparently not.