WAG Regional Percentages Question - R8

[ascarter1]

I am so confused?! Can someone break down how exactly the regional qualifiers work? My gymnast is level 7 in GA. Do they take top scores in each age group? Or is it across the board? Who makes up the team qualifiers? And what is Allstars?

We are Tn, lv7, dd made all star team- I'll try to break it down for you.

Georgia is taking the top 76 girls (regardless of age). Girls number 1-8 will make the Georgia team and will compete to represent Georgia against the other region 8 teams. The next 68 girls (regardless of age again) will make the all star team. They will compete against other lv 7 all star girls in a "regular" meet. Kinda like the best of the best.

TN only took 28. The top 8 state team, the next 20 the all stars. For TN, the top 8 were scores between 39-38.225, the all stars were scores between 38.175-37.4.

Of course that will vary state by state but that might give you an idea. Our 76th place scored a 35.175 (just to give you a round about idea).

Does that make sense? It was all confusing for me, until I went through it! Best of luck!!!

 

[ProudDad]

We are Tn, lv7, dd made all star team- I'll try to break it down for you.

Georgia is taking the top 76 girls (regardless of age). Girls number 1-8 will make the Georgia team and will compete to represent Georgia against the other region 8 teams. The next 68 girls (regardless of age again) will make the all star team. They will compete against other lv 7 all star girls in a "regular" meet. Kinda like the best of the best.

TN only took 28. The top 8 state team, the next 20 the all stars. For TN, the top 8 were scores between 39-38.225, the all stars were scores between 38.175-37.4.

Of course that will vary state by state but that might give you an idea. Our 76th place scored a 35.175 (just to give you a round about idea).

Does that make sense? It was all confusing for me, until I went through it! Best of luck!!!

.

@wallinbl not as exclusive for GA... it's very similar to the whole "I would have been 1st in a different age bracket" thing. The difference is like you said its regionals it's supposed to be exclusive. More than a 2 full point difference in the L7 girls that qualify due to geography, not ability.

One way to fix it would be to rank the state AA scores and the top 262 regardless of age or state are in, but then everyone has to wait until the last state meet before they find out.

Like I've said... this was mostly a curiosity and I don't expect anything to change. It just means DD has a higher target if making regionals is her goal and has a better likelihood of outscoring girls from states with lots of bids if she does.

 

[2G1B]

It is possible that more talented girls are getting left in other states while less talented kids are making it in GA; but we ALL know that you can not compare judging from one meet to another. We all know that judging varies wildly.

My DD's 2nd highest AA of this season was at a large meet in FL. For my son, last year he went out to a meet in Vegas and scored much higher than his routines really should have. Even at one meet in GA (a large one, multi states represented) - DD got her score card back recently and for bars Judge 1 gave her an 8.6 and Judge 2 a 9.2. Scoring varies. Period. Unless you had the same judges going to judge every state meet, it would make zero sense to say that the top AA scores went rather than the top from each state.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

The best of the states are going. No matter the scores. The top scores at states go, per state.

They all then go to the same meet with the same judges. It should all even out. The stronger gymmies will win.

 

[cbifoja]

.

The difference is like you said its regionals it's supposed to be exclusive.

DD competes in a weak gymnastics state so for us, regionals is not that exclusive. Every girl in our state made it except for one ES and one girl who barely made the qualifying score for state.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

DD competes in a weak gymnastics state so for us, regionals is not that exclusive. Every girl in our state made it except for one ES and one girl who barely made the qualifying score for state.

The difference is, it appears your region uses qualifying scores not a percentage of gymmies to send to regionals. So it is not surprising that a lot of gymmies qualify. If they used a percentage of gymmies to qualify, less kids would go, making it more exclusive. It's how the region does it, that makes the difference.

You still however need to be a top finisher to make the A team

 

[cbifoja]

I understand how my region works Deleted member 18037. I wasn't talking about that. I was simply making a point that yes, regionals should be exclusive. However, it isn't for all states and I think that is too bad.

I felt weird posting here since this is really a thread about R8 and I'm not in R8. But since my DD does at least qualify this year to attend regionals, I went ahead and added my perspective on regionals from another region. I don't feel the need to post on every thread but sometimes when something applies to me, I do chime in from time to time.

You aren't telling me anything that I don't already know. I think most of us who get to this level understand at least the basics of regionals.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I understand how my region works Deleted member 18037. I wasn't talking about that. I was simply making a point that yes, regionals should be exclusive. However, it isn't for all states and I think that is too bad.

I felt weird posting here since this is really a thread about R8 and I'm not in R8. But since my DD does at least qualify this year to attend regionals, I went ahead and added my perspective on regionals from another region. I don't feel the need to post on every thread but sometimes when something applies to me, I do chime in from time to time.

You aren't telling me anything that I don't already know. I think most of us who get to this level understand at least the basics of regionals.

Yes except you didn't explain any of that in your original post. So your perspective was not very clear.

And it seems we agree regionals should be exclusive. That wasn't clear in your original post either. Now it is. Moving on.

 

[z2akids]

I wonder if there is too much focus on the difference in qualifying scores. We aren't inel OP's region (and perhaps I have no business in this thread as a compulsory parent in another region). There wasn't a single 38 at our Level 8 States last year. The 8th qualifier to Team Ohio for Level 8 Regionals also last year had a 37.525. Does that mean that those girls aren't as talented as those in other states earning 38s. In fact 1/2 of those girls were 38+ at Regionals and had the top 2 places.

Is it possible that the score differences are a factor of different scoring in different states?

Now, I am a compulsory parent with only a couple of years in, but I am not sure how you can compare scores across states. The best from each state should go to Regionals and talent will out once there.

 

[cbifoja]

Yes except you didn't explain any of that in your original post. So your perspective was not very clear.

And it seems we agree regionals should be exclusive. That wasn't clear in your original post either. Now it is. Moving on.

Yes, I can see how quoting a snippet of a post and then responding to just that snippet can be confusing. Sorry I don't feel the need to type a 5 paragraph essay to share my every thought about gymnastics. So yeah...moving on!

 

[cbifoja]

We aren't inecessarily OP's region, but there wasn't a single 38 at Level 8 States last year.

Is it possible that the score differences are a factor of different scoring in different states?

Now, I am a compulsory parent with only a couple of years in, but I am not sure how you can compare scores across states. The best from each state should go to Regionals and talent will out once there.

Same for our L8 state meet this season. Highest score was mid 37s.

I think that some states just have better/stronger programs than others. We don't have any elite gyms in our state but Ohio has several. So I would expect the coaching staff as a whole to be stronger which should mean on average, stronger gymnasts. I know that there are exceptions here and there and that any kid can have a good day or a bad day. But if you look at the kids going to Nationals and taking top spots, it seems like certain states are more represented on the podium than others.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Is it possible that the score differences are a factor of different scoring in different states?

Now, I am a compulsory parent with only a couple of years in, but I am not sure how you can compare scores across states. The best from each state should go to Regionals and talent will out once there.

I think so. Been to enough meets that you can't always compare scoring from one week to the next. A 9.3 takes 4th at one meet, same event next meet is an 8.7 and places first. So I wouldn't compare scores across states either.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

Our region doesn't offer L6 regional comps. However, L7 is broken down by age groups. There were 8 age groups and the top 4 AA at state automatically qualified to state. There were 9 additional spots that went to the next 9 AA scores regardless of age. I'm not sure how many states determine their qualifiers for L6/L7 this way, but it seems very fair. There were only a few cases where girls who made a higher AA score, but were in a more competitive bracket, and did not qualify for regionals.

 

[ProudDad]

It is possible that more talented girls are getting left in other states while less talented kids are making it in GA; but we ALL know that you can not compare judging from one meet to another. We all know that judging varies wildly.

My DD's 2nd highest AA of this season was at a large meet in FL. For my son, last year he went out to a meet in Vegas and scored much higher than his routines really should have. Even at one meet in GA (a large one, multi states represented) - DD got her score card back recently and for bars Judge 1 gave her an 8.6 and Judge 2 a 9.2. Scoring varies. Period. Unless you had the same judges going to judge every state meet, it would make zero sense to say that the top AA scores went rather than the top from each state.

Excellent point about judging, although I imagine the spread within a single state meet is reasonably relative, so the correct top 8 achievers go on team regardless of their scores.

I guess my thought is that relative performance almost always exists on a bell curve... the percentage algorithm used by R8 is linear, so it is very likely that equivalent talent is left behind based solely on some states having a larger population.

I'm more interested in the fact that you get to see the individual judge scores... when DD gets her card it only has her final scores, except one time it had both vault scores.

 

[2G1B]

Excellent point about judging, although I imagine the spread within a single state meet is reasonably relative, so the correct top 8 achievers go on team regardless of their scores.

I guess my thought is that relative performance almost always exists on a bell curve... the percentage algorithm used by R8 is linear, so it is very likely that equivalent talent is left behind based solely on some states having a larger population.

I'm more interested in the fact that you get to see the individual judge scores... when DD gets her card it only has her final scores, except one time it had both vault scores.

It was only this one meet that had the individual judges' scores, and it was an eye opener to me to see that the same routine could be judged so differently. All other cards she has gotten just had sv and score.

 

[gymbeam]

Our region doesn't offer L6 regional comps. However, L7 is broken down by age groups. There were 8 age groups and the top 4 AA at state automatically qualified to state. There were 9 additional spots that went to the next 9 AA scores regardless of age. I'm not sure how many states determine their qualifiers for L6/L7 this way, but it seems very fair. There were only a few cases where girls who made a higher AA score, but were in a more competitive bracket, and did not qualify for regionals.

So curious about this because it seems a lot less fair than taking the highest scores across all age groups. What made you think it seemed very fair? Truly just curious.

 

[rjb123]

Proud dad, this could make all of us crazy if we looked at it hard enough. Really there is no guarantee that the "best" girls will qualify to regionals, or to the state super teams. One mis step, fall, bad day, etc can knock the "strongest" to a place where they just miss the state team. Or miss regionals. And then there is the question of "what exactly defines the best" You could have a kid score 9.7 plus doing a highly upgraded routine that is outscored by a kid who gets a 9.725 doing bare bones basics. Which is the better gymnast? Which one deserves it more? Well, high score wins, right? It may not always be "fair" but that is how it goes.
I think your daughter is in level 6, North Carolina, right? It is going to be tough competition to make regionals- lots of strong girls, not many spots. That said, our coaches have said over and over and over that while they love success (and yep, they love it) and have a strong and competitive program, it doesn't matter until about level nine. Of course it "matters" in the sense that the child WANTS to make it, works hard etc etc etc, but in their opinions lower level optionals is the time to make mistakes, just miss a spot, and learn. Frankly, I would say that these mistakes, mis steps, falls, etc have made my DD hungrier- she wants it more and is willing to work harder for it. So I guess what I am saying is to take a deep breath and try to relax. We will likely NEVER understand how and why these things are decided, but they are what they are. We can't do anything about it. Have a wonderful time watching your daughter- I am hoping she has a great day and gets one of those spots- I bet she does! And if she doesn't, I bet that she handles it with far more maturity and grace than we could anticipate. One thing I have learned about kids in this sport- most of them have immense maturity regardless of age, and are able to put it all in perspective and move on. (confession, my daughter is SO much better at this than I am! I agonize if she falls or whatever- meanwhile she keeps it all in perspective- she just loves the sport win lose or in between. ADORES it. She typically just says "I'll get it next time!) Hang in there and keep us posted on how this weekend goes. Im rooting for her!

 

[ascarter1]

Proud dad, this could make all of us crazy if we looked at it hard enough. Really there is no guarantee that the "best" girls will qualify to regionals, or to the state super teams. One mis step, fall, bad day, etc can knock the "strongest" to a place where they just miss the state team. Or miss regionals. And then there is the question of "what exactly defines the best" You could have a kid score 9.7 plus doing a highly upgraded routine that is outscored by a kid who gets a 9.725 doing bare bones basics. Which is the better gymnast? Which one deserves it more? Well, high score wins, right? It may not always be "fair" but that is how it goes.
I think your daughter is in level 6, North Carolina, right? It is going to be tough competition to make regionals- lots of strong girls, not many spots. That said, our coaches have said over and over and over that while they love success (and yep, they love it) and have a strong and competitive program, it doesn't matter until about level nine. Of course it "matters" in the sense that the child WANTS to make it, works hard etc etc etc, but in their opinions lower level optionals is the time to make mistakes, just miss a spot, and learn. Frankly, I would say that these mistakes, mis steps, falls, etc have made my DD hungrier- she wants it more and is willing to work harder for it. So I guess what I am saying is to take a deep breath and try to relax. We will likely NEVER understand how and why these things are decided, but they are what they are. We can't do anything about it. Have a wonderful time watching your daughter- I am hoping she has a great day and gets one of those spots- I bet she does! And if she doesn't, I bet that she handles it with far more maturity and grace than we could anticipate. One thing I have learned about kids in this sport- most of them have immense maturity regardless of age, and are able to put it all in perspective and move on. (confession, my daughter is SO much better at this than I am! I agonize if she falls or whatever- meanwhile she keeps it all in perspective- she just loves the sport win lose or in between. ADORES it. She typically just says "I'll get it next time!) Hang in there and keep us posted on how this weekend goes. Im rooting for her!

So well said! <3

 

[ProudDad]

Proud dad, this could make all of us crazy if we looked at it hard enough.

While my posts admittedly don't reflect it... it's really not a freak out for me... this kind of stuff is what I do... my official job title should be "Creator of Solutions to Problems Nobody Knew Existed." I have an engineering background so I like to understand the how... and if I can't I try and model it. And yes, I drive my wife nuts.

Have a wonderful time watching your daughter- I am hoping she has a great day and gets one of those spots- I bet she does!

Thanks! I appreciate that. I'm sure she'll have a blast no matter what and she's spent so much of this season sick or injured that she doesn't expect much - but now that she's on the mend I bet she surprises herself.

All that said, I did a statistical model and found out some interesting stuff

For the other math nerds that like statistics and whatnot - here's what I found...

I toook the 2015 Level 7 Season just to get an idea... Because I thought the most fair way we could do things would be to take the highest n percentile of scores and up per state, that way you take an even distribution of the top performers relative to one another in their state meets, not just a blanket count of girls. The numbers aren't too far off from the actuals, based on MMS available data (excluding scratch gymmies):

AL
Avg: 36.119, SD: 1.096
.72%ile score: 36.85
Ideal bids: 17
Actual bids: 16

FL
Avg: 36.302, SD: 1.294
.72%ile score: 37.2
Ideal bids: 85
Actual bids: 84

GA
Avg: 35.487, SD: 1.403
.72%ile score: 36.4
Ideal bids: 59
Actual bids: 63

LA - No Data
Actual Bids: 13

MS
Avg: 36.178, SD: 1.157
.72%ile score: 36.25
Ideal bids: 7
Actual bids: 8 (Minimum Req)

NC
Avg: 35.915, SD: 1.547
.72%ile score: 36.95
Ideal bids: 41
Actual bids: 34

SC
Avg: 35.656, SD: 1.09
.72%ile score: 36.3
Ideal bids: 24
Actual bids: 26

TN
Avg: 36.400, SD: 1.403
.72%ile score: 37.1
Ideal bids: 25
Actual bids: 21

Ideal Total Bids: 258 (+LA Actual is 271)
Actual Bids: 265

So these numbers give some really interesting insight... The Standard Deviation essentially reflects how close the scoring between girls is, smaller means more people are close to average, bigger means that there are more standouts... in one direction or the other.

All in all, statistically speaking the numbers are relatively close for 2015 L7 - but it does look like GA got some extra bids while TN & NC lost them. I started off with the 70th percentile and moved to 72 to get the total number close to the 265 without going under.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

So do you feel better now............