WAG Still confused about L6 bars (CHS)

[Ali'sMom]

I've been told that cast to horizontal is the requirement.
I've been told, though, that if they don't go to handstand, it's a 9.50 starting value.
I've also been told that without the handstand, they lose amplitude deductions.

So can someone tell me - does this mean, for someone who hits "just above horizontal" on low bar, that they have a 9.50 starting value, and if they hit just above horizontal on high bar it drops to a 9.00 starting value?
And then on top of that they get deductions for the height difference from handstand down to the horizontal?

And say they don't hit horizontal on the high bar, do they also lose .5 because they didn't reach the requirement and they're missing a skill?

Any layman guidance on this would be wonderfully appreciated!!!!

 

[gymmomx2]

I thought if you met all requirements = 10.0 start value. Following this logic, the start value is 10.0 as long as they hit horizontal. But they get amplitude deductions if not vertical.

 

[Ali'sMom]

That makes sense.
I swear I heard something different though. Special Requirement or something. I guess maybe I over-thought it.

So I just found this:
https://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Rules/J.O. Code of Points/appndx10_BarTechnique2013.pdf
and I can at least see very clearly the amplitude deductions.
So that helps.

But then I see a part up to 20* that says "no value part" and then above that "award value part".
So that's where I get confused

 

[Natasha]

Only one cast needs to reach above horizontal to meet the special requirement, however every cast is subject to amplitude and form deductions.
Every optional routine has to have a certain number of A, B, C etc skills. (A skills worth .1, B is .3 etc.) Casts only count for the value part if they are within 20 degrees of HS.

 

[Gymmommy71]

If you get above horizontal but don't have a handstand (or 20 degrees w/in handstand which IMO is a handstand ) but still have a very clean/well executed rest of your bar routine, you will score well in level 6. I have seen this play out several times now - routines where kids were nowhere near a handstand getting 9's and placing top 3 at meets for L6 bars. Doing only one cast, which since you only need one circling skill (vs. the two needed for level 7) is easy to do, helps minimize the deductions for not hitting a handstand which I believe is .2 and that's what pretty much everyone does in L6. So you can essentially think of a one cast above horizontal but not to handstand L6 bar routine as starting at 9.8, but it really is starting at 10.0 and just having a .2 deduction (which is next to nothing IMO).

Level 7 requires a cast to 45 degrees above horizontal otherwise it's .5 off for not meeting a requirement - which may really be a reduction in SV. Same thing happens w/ the .2 for no handstand, but you also pretty much need to cast twice so you can circle twice. So a bad caster in L7 is going to be about .9 in the hole off the bat (and will have little to no chance at placing on bars), but in L6 the same bad caster would only lose .2 (and can still do very well).

OP - Maybe the person who told you no handstand means 9.5 SV was really talking about L7?

 

[rjb123]

Gymmommy71- that makes sense! Thanks for that explanation! My knowledge of bars is limited to 1) everything pretty much has to hit HS 2) They go around and around 3) landing on feet is important. LOL!

 

[Natasha]

Cast amplitude deductions are anywhere from .05 to .3 depending on how far from HS. Keep in mind there are also form deductions. a clean cast with good form but poor amplitude will always score better than an arched cast with high amplitude.

 

[Committed]

but you also pretty much need to cast twice so you can circle twice. So a bad caster in L7 is going to be about .9 in the hole off the bat (and will have little to no chance at placing on bars), but in L6 the same bad caster would only lose .2 (and can still do very well).

You don't need two casts, but you will need 2 HSs.
DDs L7 routine only has one CHS and that is to clear-hip HS to Giant.

 

[gymgal]

You don't need two casts, but you will need 2 HSs.
DDs L7 routine only has one CHS and that is to clear-hip HS to Giant.

dd did this in 7 too. kip, squat on, jump to hb, kip chs, clear hip hs, giant, giant, fly away.

 

[Gymmommy71]

Yeah - you don't need to do 2 casts, but many kids just aren't good enough to do Giants out of a free hip. The free hip to giant routine is only done by our very best 7's on bars, cause most of the others can't consistently do it well enough to compete it. The vast majority of 7 routines I've been seeing this season have 2 casts - one on the low and one on the high. It is earlier in our season though so maybe by states this will change.

 

[ascarter1]

Dd competed level 6 last year and I'm still confused about bars!

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCi6P9bvDxqx9kDhtA1rvPQg

Here is my YouTube channel. It has several level 6 bar routines and a few 7. Maybe this will give you an idea of your dd and possible scores!

Best of luck!!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

As stated above, fulfilling a casting requirement still means you can get deductions for amplitude.

 

[Ali'sMom]

@coachp , Could you please tell me - watching this, where were her biggest deductions?
I see that the low bar cast is above horizontal, but not nearly HS, so if given the biggest deduction for that, that would be .3.
On the high bar, I know she didn't reach horizontal, so did she lose full deduction for missing skill?

Thank you for any guidance - I'm just trying to understand where the deductions came from (this was scored as an 8.8). In the past if she was under 9.0, I could "see" what happened - muscled kip, low tap swings (L4), etc. So I'd like to learn about this new world of L6

 

[wandrewsjr]

@coachp , Could you please tell me - watching this, where were her biggest deductions?
I see that the low bar cast is above horizontal, but not nearly HS, so if given the biggest deduction for that, that would be .3.
On the high bar, I know she didn't reach horizontal, so did she lose full deduction for missing skill?

Thank you for any guidance - I'm just trying to understand where the deductions came from (this was scored as an 8.8). In the past if she was under 9.0, I could "see" what happened - muscled kip, low tap swings (L4), etc. So I'd like to learn about this new world of L6

It's all about the angles in this routine. As you said, low bar cast is clearly above horizontal, so she is not relying on the high bar cast for any "credit", she's just using it to get into the dismountbut it stil gets execution deduction for angle. Low bar cast about 0.2, high bar cast the full 0.3 and a clear hip has to be 3/4 or it also gets angle deduction so 0.2-0.3 on that since it's about horizontal. Its a nice routine - dynamic and good form - not much other than the angle deductions, a little arm bend on clear hip and kips, pike on high bar cast, dismount could be a little higher.

 

[Ali'sMom]

It's all about the angles in this routine. As you said, low bar cast is clearly above horizontal, so she is not relying on the high bar cast for any "credit", she's just using it to get into the dismountbut it stil gets execution deduction for angle. Low bar cast about 0.2, high bar cast the full 0.3 and a clear hip has to be 3/4 or it also gets angle deduction so 0.2-0.3 on that since it's about horizontal. Its a nice routine - dynamic and good form - not much other than the angle deductions, a little arm bend on clear hip and kips, pike on high bar cast, dismount could be a little higher.

Thank you!
Could you tell me what it means that the clear hip has to be 3/4?

 

[wandrewsjr]

Thank you!
Could you tell me what it means that the clear hip has to be 3/4?

3/4 of the way to handstand, halfway between horizontal and handstand

 

[Ali'sMom]

3/4 of the way to handstand, halfway between horizontal and handstand

Ah! thank you so much for your help today!!!!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Also, cast height counts, it's the from the lowest point of your body. So if feet are up but belly/chest lower, that is where height is judged from.

At least this is what we've been told.

 

[lovegymnastics22]

8.8 is awesome, btw

 

[duyetanh]

Yes, we would kill for an 8.8 over here!