Parents Transitioning from Excel to Artistic

[ambrown777]

Are there any parents familar with the transition from Excel to Artistic?

This is my DD (9yrs old) 1st consistent year of gymnastics, she started in Sept 2011. She is training 12 hrs/wk at silver excel level, she has all the skills for level 4 except front hip circle and alot of the skills for level 5.

Today she started learning to do giants. With the amount of hours and individualized coaching she is getting by the end of next season it might be possible that she will be at a level 6 skills. Will she have to start at Level 4? Since you can't skip levels can she competed 2 different levels in one season for example L4 and L5?

 

[Natasha]

The first required level in USAG is L5. USAG requires that she score a 31 (I believe)in a sanctioned meet to move to L6. Yes, sometimes girls just do one meet at a level and then move up. However, your gym may have other requirements. For instance, although L4 is not required by USAG, your gym may require it as a way of mastering some of the basics essential to proper progressions. One of the main differences in switching from Excel to compulsory is that she will have to learn all the routines, so in that respect it can be a little more difficult to move up levels in the same season. Whereas in Xcel you can just substitute harder skills, in compulsories she needs to master a whole new routine, right down to proper position of arms on every move.

I know you said she still needs her front hip circle. Does she have a kip yet?

 

[ambrown777]

Thank you for the information. She has already memorized all of the level 4 routines (from watching u-tube video's) and some of level 5. She just started working on front hip circles maybe 2 weeks. No she doesn't have kips yet, yesterday she asked the coach to start teaching her and he did! She is highly self-motivated.

You brought up another interesting question. What is the "normal" for coaches leaving a gymnast at any particular level? If she is scoring 9's consistently for let's say 3 meets. Do you know the criteria for moving a gymnast up a level?

 

[Quadqueen]

She is learning giants already but just started learning front hip circles and kips? Something's not right there...

 

[gymgal]

Technically, she only has to compete once at each level as long as she gets the mobility score. But if your gym has both xcel and compulsory, I'm sure they will have higher requirements to switch over to the compulsory side. She will need to learn her front hip if she goes to gold as well so its good she's learning it. Dds gym does xcel only at the lower levels and they prep for their score out meets for L5,6 but they don't go crazy about precision on the arm/leg positions for the dance portions. For them, its not about getting a high score - its about making sure they have the skills (and can put them in a routine)

It is a bit wired that she is learning giants before having her kip or front hip. Is the coach just getting them used to that type of swinging to cut down on the fear factor later or is she really trying to teach them?

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[Quadqueen]

While there's the whole scoring out thing required by USAG, what individual gyms do in terms of move ups varies greatly. For instance, our gym doesn't have the girls score out, and they do each level for a year (or more as necessary).

 

[ambrown777]

She is learning giants already but just started learning front hip circles and kips? Something's not right there...

She only did it once and that is because she asked the coach to try. It definitely wasn't coach initiated.

I think it is starting to make a little more sense to me about the transition. I guess it also depends alot on the individual girl in terms of progress.

 

[Esoteric]

You brought up another interesting question. What is the "normal" for coaches leaving a gymnast at any particular level? If she is scoring 9's consistently for let's say 3 meets. Do you know the criteria for moving a gymnast up a level?

All of this depends on the gym and coaches. DD scored 9's on every event at every meet, except for one high 8 on vault at her 1st meet and she remained in the same level for both fall and spring season. I was told after the fact that dd was wanted by higher level coach to move up for winter/spring, but her 4 coach felt she needed better shoulder flexibility or she would get stuck in a tumbling rut. I was unaware of any of this, nor was my daughter- but it goes to show that coaches take much more than scores into consideration. It ended up being a good choice, because dd has worked on her shoulders and her tumbling skills and vault have taken off! If she had been put into a group and had to learn new routines mid-season, she may not have gotten the individualized attention that enabled her to flourish. (For what it is worth, dd "knows" all the current 5 & 6 routines from youtube also- but there are so many nuances that can only be mastered under the guidance of a good coach.)
Whatever happens, and whenever it happens, best of luck to your daughter. As long as she is having fun, working hard and progressing I am sure the coaches will keep her challenged.

 

[bogwoppit]

If she doesn't have her kip yet I wouldn't be looking to have her compete L6, in fact I cannot think of many gyms that would take her on their L5 team without her kip as it is such a huge skill to learn, let alone to perfect. L6 is well known as a very tough level with very hard scoring and a demanding bar routine, I cannot imagine her getting her kip and all the skills she would need for L6 before the meet season.

Why do you want her to move to USAG? Excel is such a great choice for gymnasts, especially ones who started a bit later.

Don't put the cart before the horse, let her work her skills this summer and see where she is and where her coaches decide she should be placed. Merely "having skills" is not enough to compete, they need to have the skills perfected and strong enough to be able to put them all together in a routine. Most girls who compete a certain level have skills two and even three levels higher, this is normal.

 

[Galadriel]

About giant before kip i don't know how boys and girls may differ but son was learning strap giants at same time as learning kip. In fact he could do a strap giant before the kip ...

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[Quadqueen]

Well, girls don't do giants until L7, and sometimes L8. The kip is in the L5 routine. If she just tried one, that's more understandable, but I agree with Bog that she likely won't be ready for L6 if she doesn't have a kip at this point.

 

[Natasha]

Also, just an FYI about learning the routines- after this competitive season (2012-13) all the compulsory routines will be changing. I'm not sure where you live, but around here there are LOTS of 9 year old level 4's, so she is not too old at all for L4 depending on where you live.

 

[gymgal]

I just reread the original post and am a little confused. Did she just complete bronze or silver this past season? If it was bronze, then she's right on target in terms of xcel. And if her season doesn't start until at least Jan 2013, then she could be ready to compete her kip and/or front hip. If it starts in the fall, that may be pushing it but you never know. I think you were saying she could be ready for level 6 AFTER this next season, right? If that's the case, it is quite possible to do that, but she will have to work her tail off. She will need a BWO on beam, back tuck on floor, flyaway and free hip on bars - all of which are time consuming to learn and perfect. But it can be done.

DD went from silver to platinum this past year (she competed as a newly turned 11yr old) and had a rough start (nerves mostly) but ended well (won bars a few times, placed in the top 3AA a few times, 37+ at regionals). Her platinum routines were primarily level 6 tumbling and L7 dance skills. However, she was not a typical silver level girl - she competed her kip and BWO (beam) all season, she had her leaps/splits close to 180*, and she is a very good bar worker (usually the event that holds girls back in 6 and 7). She trained all last summer with plans to score out of L5 and 6 in the fall. The only major hurdle for her by the end of the summer was her back tuck but she got it. She's training level 7 this summer and should have no problem (maybe the series on beam - her goal is BHS/BHS series but she may not get there).

So it can happen, if she has the talent and wants it bad enough. Of course, her coaches have to be on board with it as well. Have you talked with them about the possibility of switching to compulsory? that would be the first step. Many gyms will not allow this to happen. Others have no problem with the girls switching back and forth, depending on the girls' needs.

 

[ambrown777]

Sept 11 she started gymnastics in the rec classes 4.5/hrs/week, she was 8 . After the first class her coach recommended that she try out for the team a couple of weeks later. Excel was one of the teams and new to the gym, she didn't not do excel she was selected for "pre-team". Excel was working out 3 or 4 hr/week and pre-team 6hrs. This is were it got weird, in April a last minute descision was made to have the pre-team compete as "excel" in the state championship. They had on pre-qual meet at the gym to get them qualified, state was my DD 1st meet and she competed bronze. Then in May she was selected to compete at regionals on the state team b/c of her scores. She medaled all 4 events and AA2nd.

This month was the move up for our gym, they moved her to gold, practicing 12/hrs/wk although her coach said she will be competing at the silver level. so..."I think you were saying she could be ready for level 6 AFTER this next season.." YES this is what I was saying.

 

[ambrown777]

The coach said he would like to see her in artistic, that being said, it has never been done before. It sounds like they want to promote switching back and forth, so she will be an exception. My biggest concern is the L4/L5 practices are shorter and if she goes that route. Sounds like your DD is doing the same thing.

 

[gymgal]

Sept 11 she started gymnastics in the rec classes 4.5/hrs/week, she was 8 . After the first class her coach recommended that she try out for the team a couple of weeks later. Excel was one of the teams and new to the gym, she didn't not do excel she was selected for "pre-team". Excel was working out 3 or 4 hr/week and pre-team 6hrs. This is were it got weird, in April a last minute descision was made to have the pre-team compete as "excel" in the state championship. They had on pre-qual meet at the gym to get them qualified, state was my DD 1st meet and she competed bronze. Then in May she was selected to compete at regionals on the state team b/c of her scores. She medaled all 4 events and AA2nd.

This month was the move up for our gym, they moved her to gold, practicing 12/hrs/wk although her coach said she will be competing at the silver level. so..."I think you were saying she could be ready for level 6 AFTER this next season.." YES this is what I was saying.

Personally, I would ask the coach if she could stay in xcel through platinum and then switch to 7. If she is a really strong gymnast, she could possibly even go to 7 after gold. You mentioned regionals. I'm assuming you're in region 8, since I think that's the only region doing xcel regional championships. If so, she will have to test out of 5 before gold (region 8 requirement to make sure they have the skills). You will see at that point how she would fare in JO (what you are calling artistic). Of course, with the new requirements coming in 2013, we don't know what will happen with xcel and testing out when/how.

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[ambrown777]

Personally, I would ask the coach if she could stay in xcel through platinum and then switch to 7. If she is a really strong gymnast, she could possibly even go to 7 after gold. You mentioned regionals. I'm assuming you're in region 8, since I think that's the only region doing xcel regional championships. If so, she will have to test out of 5 before gold (region 8 requirement to make sure they have the skills). You will see at that point how she would fare in JO (what you are calling artistic). Of course, with the new requirements coming in 2013, we don't know what will happen with xcel and testing out when/how.

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Yeah, that is the imput I was looking for ...It sounds like excel isnt as regimented, thus more fun for the girls. I just didn't want her to go all the way through excel and then they put her in a lower JOlevel, as for as skills are concern. Yes, we are in region 8.

 

[gymgal]

Yeah, that is the imput I was looking for ...It sounds like excel isnt as regimented, thus more fun for the girls. I just didn't want her to go all the way through excel and then they put her in a lower JOlevel, as for as skills are concern. Yes, we are in region 8.

It really depends on the gym. Some of the xcel teams in region 8 could run circles around compulsory girls from other gyms! Lol but in general, yes, they are not as regimented as the compulsory track if the gym has both tracks. Still, if you discuss your dd's goals with the coaches and they agree with your thoughts, they will ensure that she is ready. About 2/3 of the girls in platinum level are already doing most level 7 skills, minus the giants and those seem to be popping up more in routines as well. You can go to YouTube and look up platinum xcel or prep op gymnystics and you will get a feel for what they are doing. If you add regionals, you'll narrow itdown to region 8 only.

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[AmandaLynn]

Yeah, that is the imput I was looking for ...It sounds like excel isnt as regimented, thus more fun for the girls. I just didn't want her to go all the way through excel and then they put her in a lower JOlevel, as for as skills are concern. Yes, we are in region 8.

As was already mentioned, in R8, a gymnast must "score out" of L5 in order to compete Gold and "Score out" of L6 to compete platinum. Therefore, a gymnast could, in theory, go directly from Xcel platinum to Level 7.

However, I'm not sure what will happen with the rule changes next year. On the proposed Xcel rules for 2013 that I found, it doesn't have a JO mobility score listed on any of the Xcel levels. I'm not sure if those will be added at a later date, though.

If you're interested, the link to the proposed changes is here:

North Carolina Women Gymnastics V1.0

With the addition of the "Diamond" level, it looks like they may be going in the direction of creating another whole separate program that will allow kids to compete at a L8+ skill level without having to go into a JO program. So... I'm not sure if they will still have a mobility requirement dependent on competition in the JO program.

 

[gymgal]

As was already mentioned, in R8, a gymnast must "score out" of L5 in order to compete Gold and "Score out" of L6 to compete platinum. Therefore, a gymnast could, in theory, go directly from Xcel platinum to Level 7.

For the record, Gymnasts do not have to score out of L6 to compete platinum - at least not in NC. I'm not really sure why they instituted the level 5 score out either. If they want to consider xcel a separate program, then they should come up with their own mobility requirements. I was wondering if they were going to add diamond. There was chatter about region 8 not implementing diamond.



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