WAG Typical Start of Season Scores?

[LJL07]

I agree 100%. Scraping by at a minimum score in L4 & L5 in an in-house meet doesn't necessarily demonstrate proficiency in compulsory gymnastics.

I think L6 is probably the most misused level in WAG... from both above and below.

Short Stack competed L2, L4, & L5 and is competing L6 this season. I think she is who L6 was made for. She was middle of the pack in L5, and would be bored out of her mind repeating. She would be trounced in L7... SO not ready... Only 4 of our 17 L5s from last year are competing L7 this year. Two went to Xcel, two switched gyms, one quit, and the remainder are competing L6 this year.

A thousand times yes. Sort of tangential to this discussion, but there are a few young instakids whose families have made a really big deal out of scoring out of level 4&5 just so the child can be an optional gymnast on level 6. In no way do I mean to slight any children, but if a child scores out of 4 with barely a 34 and gets just over a 34 on level 5 with a free hip that is still pretty much a back hip circle, she probably isn’t ready to be scoring out of compulsories.

Level 5 is generally not a high scoring or popular level to compete but I think the bars are so valuable. The girls who spend time on 5 and then go to 6 or 7 are usually so much stronger on bars from what I have seen.

 

[LindyHopper]

don’t understand the negativity about L5 girls who have L7 skills.

No negativity coming from this corner... I am not from an area where compulsory gymnastics are in the fall. But I would think that L6 would get used more often in these areas, because the "waiting room" model would work there.

If one just finished L5, and wanted to compete optionals in the winter, L6 would be a great level to grow through to get ready for 7. But that's the way my brain works, and that isn't always what is best for certain gymnasts and gyms.

I understand why a gymnast might have the skills for 5 & 7 at the same time, but it seems to me that very few, if any, L5s around here have L7 skills on more than one apparatus, so it feels totally foreign to me.

 

[kayjaybe]

Life isn’t fair.

Maybe there aren’t a lot of L7 meets around where this group competed L6. Maybe the gym requires them to do 1 level each year because that is what has worked in the past. Even though USAG doesn’t require it, maybe the gym requires a giant in L7 (ours does).

Or maybe the gym just wants to kick *** at every level.

The thing is, if a gym is constantly holding people back just for the big scores, at some point the kids will get bored with it. Sure it is fun to win, but I don’t think my L8 dd would take any joy in sweeping the podium at a L6 (or L7) meet.

 

[Gymmom0403]

So my kid may be a different take on levels, moving up, etc. she started old level 4, old level 5, new level 5 for compulsories. She did ok but by no means was a super star.
Moved to level 7 and competed 3 passes with higher than min tumbling on floor, higher than min requirement on beam. She saw kids beat her with what she would consider “less” but they were clean.
Moves to level 8. Once again competing 3 passes, close to max tumbling (double full on floor — we barely saw those) and did she win? Not always. Sometimes those with less and cleaner beat her. She got it together by end of year and won regionals on floor
Moves to level 9. Has a year of competing double full so now is highly proficient and adds a double pike to floor. Higher than average tumbling on beam. Does she always win? Nope. Cleaner with less still beats her but she pulls it together and has a great season
This year as level 10 she has a year of double pikes under her belt. She has double fulls for 2 years. She is now able to start all events first year with 10.0 start values. Will she Win? Probably not but the experience is there.
Some questioned why she wasn’t a 10 last year. She had skills on 3 of 4 events. But bars. This has been her struggle through her journey. She was able to spend last year at 9 working on those higher skills and getting the confidence. A kid who a few years ago wouldn’t even grab the high bar on a squat on gained the confidence on bars and scored a 9.425 at nationals. Is that enough to
Win? Nope. But I her eyes it was a huge victory
Some kids or parents may not like getting beat while performing higher skills, but for my kid and her journey it’s what has worked. Had she been forced to score 37-38 in compulsories or min tumbling in lower optionals I am convinced she would have quit long ago. I’m thankful we found a gym and coaches that worked for her
I wish everyone the best of luck this season at whatever level they are competing. It’s such a individual journey that no one can say what’s right or wrong

 

[gymgal]

Moved to level 7 and competed 3 passes with higher than min tumbling on floor, higher than min requirement on beam. She saw kids beat her with what she would consider “less” but they were clean.
Moves to level 8. Once again competing 3 passes,

I have seen this a few times on this thread now. Is competing 3 passes in 7/8 not typical in certain areas of the country? In our area, almost every gymnast in all the gyms competed 3 passes in both levels when dd competed. I haven't seen L7/8 meets in a couple of years but I assume they are the same as previous

 

[Natasha]

Regarding the sandbagging discussion, I think it is all about perspective. The argument has been made by some that girls with a certain score, skills, length of time competing a level, etc should have to move up because 'it's not fair." What has not entered the discussion though, is that all girls are competing within their own age groups. Just for a moment- Imagine if USAG had all girls of the same age competing against each other...imagine it was a system where whatever level you are that is your start score- 10s start from a 10, L5 start from a 5, etc... I am not actually suggesting that USAG do this, but it is an interesting perspective.
So the point is, perhaps instead of being upset that your 10 year old L5 has to compete against a few girls that could probably successfully be doing L7, you can be thankful that your 10 year old L5 isn't competing against all the optional level 10 year olds.... Now, think for just a minute about those 10 year old optional level girls- they are all really talented- the upper optional level 10 year old is having to compete against only the other most talented young girls- and she might not be getting on the podium at all- because at her level they are ALL really really good. Is that 'fair' to her?
When we move the focus from trying to dictate what is 'fair' to help our kids focus on their individual journey, then each kid can experience their own success- and if your child is one of the few who endure to make it to L10, there won't be any need to worry about sandbagging.

 

[Gymmom0403]

I have seen this a few times on this thread now. Is competing 3 passes in 7/8 not typical in certain areas of the country? In our area, almost every gymnast in all the gyms competed 3 passes in both levels when dd competed. I haven't seen L7/8 meets in a couple of years but I assume they are the same as previous

Some gyms are of the belief that do the minimum to minimize deductions. Most of our area does 3 passes at 7/8 but there were still meets where a 2 pass minimum skill would win. Clean skill usually beats difficulty at 7/8 since there is no bonus

 

[sce]

I have seen this warm up at a level 5 meet as well. In this case, it was a group of girls who had competed level 4 the prior season, trained for 7 for 10ish months, and they were now attempting to score out of 5 in order to compete 7 the following month. What would you have them do in this case?

Why warm-up the skills at a level 5 meet? Intimidation?

 

[bookworm]

Some questioned why she wasn’t a 10 last year. She had skills on 3 of 4 events. But bars. This has been her struggle through her journey. She was able to spend last year at 9 working on those higher skills and getting the confidence.

Then those people are ridiculous....she was missing 25% of what she needed for level 10 so she wasn't ready, period. In the gyms we have been in, you were either ready on all 4 events (you don't have to be winning everything but have the requirements), or you stayed in the level below until you did. It is not sandbagging if you're missing an event.

 

[Jazzjerz]

Why warm-up the skills at a level 5 meet? Intimidation?

I can't say for certain, as it wasn't my daughter's team, but intimidation could definitely be part of it...someone else had said showboating, and I can definitely see the showboating aspect, but some may say that is the point of competing - to show off your stuff. I would imagine some coaches would even say it could be good for the girls to do their giants in a stressful competition setting before they are doing them for score. Like a test run. That could maybe be a legit reason.

The one thing I do know, is in the end it didn't seem to matter much, as they didn't end up winning, since they had only been doing level 5 routines for a couple weeks, as it was just their mobility meet.

 

[wandrewsjr]

I have seen this a few times on this thread now. Is competing 3 passes in 7/8 not typical in certain areas of the country? In our area, almost every gymnast in all the gyms competed 3 passes in both levels when dd competed. I haven't seen L7/8 meets in a couple of years but I assume they are the same as previous

I am in California and would say 90-95% of level 7 routines here have only two passes. No composition deductions so most coaches looking to fulfill the requirements as cleanly as possible and get off. Level 8 would say just the opposite, 90-95% 3 passes when composition deductions come into play.

 

[LindyHopper]

Why warm-up the skills at a level 5 meet? Intimidation?

Honestly, I don't see this as being an effective strategy.

Short Stack is usually too busy focusing on her own warm up, or watching her teammates compete to pay attention to how other teams are warming up on other events.

 

[vbdb]

I have a kid that Level 6 was made for, she's had her own path, first year old Level 1, then two years of L4 and L5 last year where she had a strong year, scoring low to mid 37s at most meets even with a spot on flyaway. She came in 3rd AA at provincials this year and was vault and floor champ. Despite all her hard work this summer you can't rush a fear of flyaway and she was absolutely not bars ready for Level 7. There was about a 50/50 split of kids from 5 who went to 6 and 7 this year but the one common denominator was being bars ready. She'll score well in her other events with a few upgrades like FHS FT and RO BHS BLO on floor which may make someone think she's "sandbagging" but then take a look at her bars and see that she's still not doing a flyaway dismount and you know why she's where she is.
I saw visible relief in her face when she knew for sure she was doing 6 instead of pushing for 7, but leaving her back to repeat 5 would have been a disservice to her and to the other kids she'd compete against when she was already competent at all the events. It's the perfect place for her this year and gives her breathing room to work through her flyaway issue.

 

[tucktwisttumble]

Honestly, I don't see this as being an effective strategy.

Short Stack is usually too busy focusing on her own warm up, or watching her teammates compete to pay attention to how other teams are warming up on other events.

But, someone, somewhere noticed that Suzie from noname gymnastics was warming up level 7 skills in a level 5 division. So maybe your DD didnt catch on to it - but clearly, based on peoples strong feelings of sandbaging in this thread, someone caught on to a gymnast warming up out-of-level skills.

 

[Ali'sMom]

But, someone, somewhere noticed that Suzie from noname gymnastics was warming up level 7 skills in a level 5 division. So maybe your DD didnt catch on to it - but clearly, based on peoples strong feelings of sandbaging in this thread, someone caught on to a gymnast warming up out-of-level skills.

This isn't related to sandbagging, but as to "warm up skills" being intimidating, there was a meet where an opposing team was warming up going over the vault as a front layout (I guess that's what it would be called) - not even touching the vault. It looked cool to me. To DD, she said "OMG, they aren't even touching the table... we are going to get CREAMED!".
I told her to just focus on herself....
In the end, their competition FHS vaults weren't the best, and I was able to tell DD "SEE?". But it did psyche the girls out for a little bit.

 

[Jard.the.gymnast]

This isn't related to sandbagging, but as to "warm up skills" being intimidating, there was a meet where an opposing team was warming up going over the vault as a front layout (I guess that's what it would be called) - not even touching the vault. It looked cool to me. To DD, she said "OMG, they aren't even touching the table... we are going to get CREAMED!".
I told her to just focus on herself....
In the end, their competition FHS vaults weren't the best, and I was able to tell DD "SEE?". But it did psyche the girls out for a little bit.

I understand this one, since a fhs is a Flo with a block. It could actually improve their fhs vaults

 

[Ali'sMom]

I understand this one, since a fhs is a Flo with a block. It could actually improve their fhs vaults

I wasn't even sure if it was easier or harder, but to our group of gymmies, it looked "amazing!", and, yes, intimidating.

So sometimes warm-ups do get noticed by other gymmies. Maybe they just noticed because they were in the same event group with them, but they still got nervous...

 

[duyetanh]

My kid is very much in the zone, and could give a crap what the other kids are doing, but she does see the ones who are grouped with her for competition, and does comments sometimes about their warmups. She personally wouldnt want to warm up harder stuff at a meet that she is competing because, in her words, "Whats the point? And it might even confuse me." Lol

 

[lindsaygymnast7]

There is one girl at my gym who may be accused of sandbagging in level 6. She has a beautiful cast handstand - clear hip handstand - giant x2 - flyaway, beautiful front walkover and bwo - bwo on beam, and a very good front handspring vault along with great front tumbling on floor (front layout front tuck). However she cannot back tumble at all. Not even round of backhandspring. Since USAG requires a back layout for level 7, she is unable to move up. Last competition season she was getting 37's right from the getgo and I can see how people would wonder why she wasn't a level 7. She will be repeating level 6 this year and I think (not sure) that the plan is to get her to score out of level 7 next year (?) in order to compete level 8 where there are less specific requirements about back tumbling. In my opinion this isn't sandbagging even though she is knocking it out of the park on 3/4 events.

 

[raenndrops]

There is one girl at my gym who may be accused of sandbagging in level 6. She has a beautiful cast handstand - clear hip handstand - giant x2 - flyaway, beautiful front walkover and bwo - bwo on beam, and a very good front handspring vault along with great front tumbling on floor (front layout front tuck). However she cannot back tumble at all. Not even round of backhandspring. Since USAG requires a back layout for level 7, she is unable to move up. Last competition season she was getting 37's right from the getgo and I can see how people would wonder why she wasn't a level 7. She will be repeating level 6 this year and I think (not sure) that the plan is to get her to score out of level 7 next year (?) in order to compete level 8 where there are less specific requirements about back tumbling. In my opinion this isn't sandbagging even though she is knocking it out of the park on 3/4 events.

missing a SR on one event = not sandbagging.
Obvious sandbagging at L6 is when they are doing L7 routines on ALL events - this includes giants, cast handstands, and flyaway on bars, LO and front series on floor, and series and flight on beam... with at least 2 B skills per event... and scoring 37+ from the start of meet season.