WAG USAG TOPs 2000 note to gymnasts

[Deleted member D3987]

this is what the "5 weeks" is about. i do know the facts. his child pornography pre-dates all of this by many years. i am not favoring USAG. you're assuming that the material they found was current. it was not. wrong...he was under investigation well before this all broke loose. as i said, everything is not what it appears AND the papers aren't even close as to what took place. please don't shoot the messenger. this messenger is veiled and trying to open all of your eyes. this is not about a Doctor who sexually assaulted gymnasts.
this is about a Doctor who was a child pornographer who sexually assaulted females from different sports. softball to name one. he was an equal opportunity pornographer. there were athletes from other sports dating back many years. no one knew it... same as Sharp, Gustafson. Penev, etc; he was charged and plead to "selling, trading, purchasing". he had more than a GoPro. he was on the "dark net". how else would the Feds know he was involved with child porn. you think they found that out by simply asking him? do you all think that the FEDS actually needed what they found in his possession? what they did find completed the circle. when Steve notified the FEDS do you think HE told them that Nasser was a child pornographer? and do you think the FEDS were going to tell him what they already knew?? it did cross a bunch of jurisdictions. please research 'dark net' and 'pedogate'.

nobody knew about any of this...except Jarod from Subway, Gustafson, Adams, Sharp, and several others who i'm confident will be revealed in the months to come. one of the above is already dead. the other 3 in federal prison for child porn. may they rot there. i know what i'm talking about...please don't argue on this with conjecture, narrative or anything the papers have to say. have you all seen the photo taken of someone at Championships coming over the bar on a Tkatchev? the one the OC Register purchased from photopornographer Rodriguez? of the thousands of action shots taken by several photographers he and they chose that one? can you all figure out where that photo landed all photo shopped? do you all think that her parents, USAG, coaches and gymnasts alike are interested in seeing a photo like that? if not...then for who? do any of you have ANY idea how many of the SAME EXACT POSITION shots have been taken in the past 10 years? have NONE of you taken notice? do you see these facsimile photos printed in the USAG or IG magazines? NO! have none of you noted or wondered WHY that is?

please folks, this is all not what you think this is all about. they are your neighbors...from all professions. THEY have infiltrated all walks of our lives. including gymnasts and swimmers from all over the world. including sex trafficking. the FEDS swoop in after charges have come from State or Local law enforcement. FEDS trump everyone. what do you think they're doing with their 'specialist' task forces. please talk to anyone that you know in law enforcement. bylaw 9 is a lot of stuff. but NOT child porn. i am begging you all to OPEN your eyes.

what happened to all these athletes over 25 years is gut wrenching and depressing. i don't like discussing it...except to point out to all of you what i know is really going on. this does not mean i'm not sympathetic to ALL the victims. i am. i'm a father, a grandfather and an uncle. you all think it's just gymnasts. you have no idea. and these people are making money off of our industry with filth. pure and unadulterated FILTH. what exactly do you all think Nasser was 'selling, trading and purchasing on the 'dark net'? photos of nude popsicles?? and do you think that he was 'selling, trading and purchasing' on Bing? Google? or any of the common search engines available to every household? PLEASE EVERYONE. put on your critical thinking caps and speak with someone you know in law enforcement.

ETA: because i don't think i worded it right. bylaw 9 is obvious. but what the banned list should show you and doesn't, and by description, is what they got banned for. if it's of a sexual nature all it will state all the way over in the right column is "ByLaw 9.?" whatever. it doesn't tell you child porn.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

additionally, and what i think is vitally important, Steve and USA Gymnastics were "cleared of any wrongdoing" by law enforcement. i don't think i can/could go on in this profession if that weren't the case. you can argue and debate the legal standard applied to no "wrongdoing" but it was necessary for many of us to continue on.
the legal standard/threshold in the word 'preponderance' is much lower and can be a bit loosey goosey. ask Rod Blagojevich. even USAG has used that to ban someone despite no plea or criminal conviction. we all will have to wait and see how that all shakes out AND if anything learned is exculpatory...or inculpatory which may still find someone being charged criminally for what they might've been told and 'knew' later. i hope i'm right. and many other coaches and owners feel the same way. there those of us in the profession that NEED to see the trees for the forest in order to continue on.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

as a good friend of mine has already posted in many places where what Nasser did is being discussed "wherever there is a cell phone, a camera and a computer" it is not a matter of if...but when the FEDS will come calling. and good riddance.


https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/n...-surveillance-in-the-face-of-new-technologies

https://fossbytes.com/difference-deep-web-darknet-dark-web/

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/18/hit...us-teens-the-darknet-is-going-mainstream.html

http://www.newsweek.com/anonymous-hacker-dark-web-child-porn-operation-553014

 

[raenndrops]

@dunno, thank you for all you are doing to help people understand that what they have read isn't the whole story. I will wait until we have, as Paul Harvey used to say, "The Rest of the Story."

 

[Seeker]

While we all want to hear the rest of the story, I cannot imagine the mental gymnastics it would take for me to land on the side of USAG bearing no responsibility. That would be a true smoking gun, but I don't expect that to happen.

 

[suds]

Widespread culpability exists – albeit in varying degrees.

Promoting “Not me.” / “It wasn’t us.” / “It was mainly someone else.” pushes parents away, and seems to reinforce the culture that enabled abuse.

Acknowledging that we all can learn from this experience, do some honest reflection and soul-searching, and change ourselves and our organizations accordingly is how our children, athletes, and gymnastics community will move forward in a positive direction.

For example, as a parent, I am asking myself: What can I do to keep my eyes and ears open more? What can I do, moving forward, to better protect all children around me? How can I help ensure we (collectively) do not dismiss what children are telling us? What are my new and elevated expectations for myself and for gymnastics professionals and organizations?

This is, in part, how we learn from this experience and get to a better place.
Take the anger, disgust, and frustration: acknowledge it, learn from it, and channel that energy into effecting positive change.

 

[2Wally]

there were no USAG athletes victimized after Rhonda notified Steve notified the FBI.

This is 100 percent a false statement. Please stop saying this! He was working in his msu clinic office from the time he left usag until sept 20 2016. He saw patients from all sports and there are usag gymnasts for sure that he saw! It was not in his home! Do not say it again - we know many usag girls who walked through his doors from July 2015 until sept 2016 - bc usag didn't inform msu the true reason he was fired - put every athlete/person who walked through the doors of the msu clinic in danger of being sexually assaulted by Larry nassar! That's the bottom line - people/children were placed in danger because they didn't report to the other employer!

As far as the porn - it doesn't really matter which one was first in his sick addiction - they are both awful. But you do not know - the inside of this mans mind - or when he first did a sexual act on a victim. But you making the point that it was porn - dark porn - and then it went to sexual assaulting young girls (like that's just a side note) is offensive to those of us who actually know victims! Who cares - it's a comment that is unnecessary and offensive!

 

[2Wally]

it was done at his home. Steve was not allowed to open his mouth. Nasser knew...he only worked at home at that point. i regret i know what the facts are. he had already been suspended by MSU.

100 percent false - we know tons of girls who saw him right in the office from July 2015 to sept 2016!

 

[2Wally]

additionally, and what i think is vitally important, Steve and USA Gymnastics were "cleared of any wrongdoing" by law enforcement. i don't think i can/could go on in this profession if that weren't the case. you can argue and debate the legal standard applied to no "wrongdoing" but it was necessary for many of us to continue on.
the legal standard/threshold in the word 'preponderance' is much lower and can be a bit loosey goosey. ask Rod Blagojevich. even USAG has used that to ban someone despite no plea or criminal conviction. we all will have to wait and see how that all shakes out AND if anything learned is exculpatory...or inculpatory which may still find someone being charged criminally for what they might've been told and 'knew' later. i hope i'm right. and many other coaches and owners feel the same way. there those of us in the profession that NEED to see the trees for the forest in order to continue on.

USAG has NOT been cleared of any wrongdoing. They are in the middle of 100s of cases - depositions are in the process - no one has been cleared yet! Again - completely a false misleading statement for those reading this thread! One of their biggest issues that is public knowledge - is that they paid off national team members to stay quiet about what they knew about Larry nassar after July 2015 - which is ILLEGAL in the state of California for settling a civil suit! That is just one of their issues - in which they have not been cleared of wrongdoing yet! You continue to make strong statements that are false on this thread and are misleading to the readers! Whether those who knew - face criminal charges - remains to be seen - only time will tell. But all have a share of wrongdoing and no one has been cleared - especially USAG!

 

[BachFlyer]

there were no USAG athletes victimized after Rhonda notified Steve notified the FBI.

Wrong.

it was done at his home. Steve was not allowed to open his mouth. Nasser knew...he only worked at home at that point. i regret i know what the facts are. he had already been suspended by MSU.

Wrong. You are wrong. He was at the MSU clinic after he was fired by USAG. I know because my dd ACTUALLY SAW HIM THERE DURING THAT TIME. I literally asked him why he retired as Olympic doctor at this office visit. I paid office bills to this sicko during this time. My dd was not assaulted but others were. FYI, he was also still "treating" gymnasts at Twistars during that time period. So you may purport to speak for USAG, but you do NOT speak for the actual victims. Quit trying to. You are wrong. You can use all of the name-dropping and psuedo-legalese you want, but it doesn't change what happened on the sexual assault side. If you care about the victims at all you might consider that the gym world is small and there are victims on this board, and you are dismissing their experience. Stop it. Quit parading like you are the only one with "insider info" because you are some supposed big-time person within USAG. You could be Steve Penny or the Pope himself and you would be wrong about what you are saying on this point.

this is what the "5 weeks" is about. i do know the facts. his child pornography pre-dates all of this by many years. i am not favoring USAG. you're assuming that the material they found was current. it was not. wrong...he was under investigation well before this all broke loose. as i said, everything is not what it appears AND the papers aren't even close as to what took place. please don't shoot the messenger. this messenger is veiled and trying to open all of your eyes. this is not about a Doctor who sexually assaulted gymnasts.
this is about a Doctor who was a child pornographer who sexually assaulted females from different sports. softball to name one. he was an equal opportunity pornographer.

The porn may have been under investigation - fair enough. Most people, myself included, are not stupid and know those investigations are very extensive and span years and years. He clearly was a pornographer and if that is the previous investigation you keep referring to, fair enough. . But while you seem to be dead-set on conflating the two issues, he STILL ABUSED CHILDREN. This is MOST DEFINITLEY about a Doctor that assaulted gymnasts. Your insistence that this is mostly a matter of a porn investigation is mind-numbingly nauseating. The porn doesn't trump anything.

i know what i'm talking about...please don't argue on this with conjecture, narrative or anything the papers have to say.... do you all think that her parents, USAG, coaches and gymnasts alike are interested in seeing a photo like that? if not...then for who? ...what happened to all these athletes over 25 years is gut wrenching and depressing. i don't like discussing it...except to point out to all of you what i know is really going on. this does not mean i'm not sympathetic to ALL the victims. i am.... PLEASE EVERYONE. put on your critical thinking caps and speak with someone you know in law enforcement.

You clearly know a lot about the background of the porn charges, and who took what photo, and seem to be saying that you are highly aware there is a larger, sicker circle in the gym community and on the dark web that we all don't know about. That doesn't surprise me - I am aware that there is a lot of depravity in the world, and also one would have to be a complete dolt to think that what the papers report is the end of the story. No kidding. I am very glad that the porn investigation is what helped put him behind bars, and I'm I am glad that others were caught as well and if there are more arrests to follow, it can't happen too soon. But for someone who is says that they are so revolted by it, do our community a favor and start asking where USAG failed over the years in making our sport highly inviting to the creeps. Do everyone a favor and hold up a mirror to your organization and recognize that USAG has a history of mismanaging reports of abuse, sexual and otherwise, and has contributed from the top down to a culture that encourages perpetrators of all kinds to gravitate to our sport. Start understanding that the argument that "poor USAG's hands were tied" is a complete cop out and does NOTHING to either support current victims OR prevent future oversight.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i stand by what i've said. we'll wait. i don't agree with some of what you've said. we can do that...agree to disagree.
and then there is the 5 weeks. it will eventually come out. and i'm sincerely sorry if your child was one of his victims.
99% of the people in gymnastics are good people. that includes people in the Office. and look at the banned list. what other organization has that list? and publishes it to your child's magazine which you all receive at home.
None of us are perfect. the DD report will prevent nothing. window shades. all of us in gymnastics will continue our due diligence as we have for many years.
Nasser was masterful. a sociopath/psychopath. he duped and deceived EVERYONE. what he did was calculated, deliberate, premeditated and with forethought in his selection as to who is victims would be. he fooled you too.

 

[BachFlyer]

While we all want to hear the rest of the story, I cannot imagine the mental gymnastics it would take for me to land on the side of USAG bearing no responsibility. That would be a true smoking gun, but I don't expect that to happen.

Exactly.

 

[BachFlyer]

i stand by what i've said. we'll wait.

Go ahead and keep patting yourself on the back. While the victims do their best to stay strong in trying to pick up the pieces.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

and you have NO idea of my involvement in that and them. maybe time you stop.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Widespread culpability exists – albeit in varying degrees.

Promoting “Not me.” / “It wasn’t us.” / “It was mainly someone else.” pushes parents away, and seems to reinforce the culture that enabled abuse.

Acknowledging that we all can learn from this experience, do some honest reflection and soul-searching, and change ourselves and our organizations accordingly is how our children, athletes, and gymnastics community will move forward in a positive direction.

For example, as a parent, I am asking myself: What can I do to keep my eyes and ears open more? What can I do, moving forward, to better protect all children around me? How can I help ensure we (collectively) do not dismiss what children are telling us? What are my new and elevated expectations for myself and for gymnastics professionals and organizations?

This is, in part, how we learn from this experience and get to a better place.
Take the anger, disgust, and frustration: acknowledge it, learn from it, and channel that energy into effecting positive change.

yes too all that. our industry has always been on alert. but even schools have mistakes from time to time. but again, i draw your attention to the banned list. it is shameful...BUT...how do you think that list came to be and how does everyone think those names on the list came to be?
it did not come to be in a vacuum.

 

[notthatmom]

@dunno speaking of the banned list...is there some sort of procedure that goes into having a name put on there? I mean in my eyes, as a parent, and thinking about it in a way of putting myself in USAG's shoes, one would think that getting Nassar's name on that list as soon as humanly possible would be pretty high on the list. If anything else to at least give athletes, parents, and anyone else affiliated with USAG the peace of mind that it's being taken seriously.
I am honestly just curious as to why it takes so long to get a name added, and/or what the process is.

 

[BachFlyer]

We can't "agree to disagree" about who was assaulted after he was let go from USAG. I have no doubt.

As for the banned list, I'm glad it exists but it's not enough.

 

[BachFlyer]

and you have NO idea of my involvement in that and them. maybe time you stop.

You're right. I have no idea your involvement. Sounds extensive. For the record, if you were high up at USAG, you'd also be under a gag order according to even your own argument...

I'll tell you what I'm not going to do...stop pointing out when something is demonstrably false. I don't care who you are. You've been a resource on this board for a lot of information about coaching and tips over the years, some of which I've read and have found informative myself. But being a coach/club owner/former gymnast/longtime member of the community doesn't make you the ultimate authority on everything, and certainly doesn't mean that we should all defer to Dunno for "reasons". That's part of the problem and danger within this sport to begin with. We just accept blind authority without using our own critical thinking skills. USAG has work to do - from the top of the organization down to the individual club owners. We parents are the last line of defense. And if we don't start demanding accountability and paying attention when things seem fishy, then we are putting our kids at risk.

 

[BachFlyer]

@dunno speaking of the banned list...is there some sort of procedure that goes into having a name put on there? I mean in my eyes, as a parent, and thinking about it in a way of putting myself in USAG's shoes, one would think that getting Nassar's name on that list as soon as humanly possible would be pretty high on the list. If anything else to at least give athletes, parents, and anyone else affiliated with USAG the peace of mind that it's being taken seriously.
I am honestly just curious as to why it takes so long to get a name added, and/or what the process is.

Seriously. Banned list, in my understanding, just revokes a coaches ability to be a "professional member" and their right to be on the floor during a USAG sanctioned event. It doesn't mean that that person can't be hired by an individual gym. It doesn't mean that a club owner named in a lawsuit involving negligence re: sexual abuse can't hire an NCAA coach who is also named in a lawsuit alleging the same negligence. It doesn't prevent people from coaching who are under investigation for abuse but haven't been convicted. It doesn't address the prevalence of other kinds of physical or emotional abuse that are rampant. It doesn't address peripheral operators like doctors, or photographers, or volunteers.

This article is a good summary:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...left-list-banned-gymnastics-coaches/88354642/

I sincerely hope parents don't REALLY think that are really ONLY 107 dangerous people that are working in or affiliated with 3,000+ gyms that shouldn't coach or otherwise be paid to be around their children. I say start with those who are most adamantly defending their positions of innocence. Because if you are that closed minded about finding out what went wrong, if you are that intent on putting ego above solutions, then I simply don't trust you to have the best interests of the kids at heart. Walk the walk.

USAG has made some changes over the years, and seems like they are moving in a better direction this past year with SafeSport. It does take time. Better late than never and better some standards than none. But until they implement a zero tolerance policy for ANY abuse, and force all clubs and all employees of clubs to be subject to reasonable standards, our kids are at risk.

I'll wait.

 

[2Wally]

and do any of you think that the FEDS who went to a Federal Prosecutor who went to a Federal Judge to secure a warrant had only investigated him for a couple weeks, months, etc; and didn't have the prima facie they needed to secure that warrant "suspicion of child pornography" in the first place?
or do you all think the FEDS began investigating him AFTER Steve notified them?
he had a business. he satisfied his own deviate sickness as well as millions of others. your chicken and the egg argument does matter in a small way. we don't have to agree as you said as it doesn't really matter. he's a sick POS.
and i DO care that he made money from this. i want to know how much for my own edification. he did this at the expense and well being of many innocent athletes. the Feds know but i don't know for sure if they can quantify that.

This is also false information - the Feds didn't secure the warrant - they were given what was found bc it crossed state lines and fed porn charges hold a longer sentencing option then state charges and they wanted the max against him so they gave what they found to the Feds to bring charges against him quickly bc they wanted him in jail and it was easier to do with the porn!

Your posts are lots of false statements! They are hurtful to those who know many victims and they are misleading to the readers of this thread! You are not an authority on every subject and clearly your information is false and not factual!