WAG USAG TOPs 2000 note to gymnasts

[wandrewsjr]

Seriously. Banned list, in my understanding, just revokes a coaches ability to be a "professional member" and their right to be on the floor during a USAG sanctioned event. It doesn't mean that that person can't be hired by an individual gym. It doesn't mean that a club owner named in a lawsuit involving negligence re: sexual abuse can't hire an NCAA coach who is also named in a lawsuit alleging the same negligence. It doesn't prevent people from coaching who are under investigation for abuse but haven't been convicted. It doesn't address the prevalence of other kinds of physical or emotional abuse that are rampant. It doesn't address peripheral operators like doctors, or photographers, or volunteers.

This article is a good summary:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...left-list-banned-gymnastics-coaches/88354642/

I sincerely hope parents don't REALLY think that are really ONLY 107 dangerous people that are working in or affiliated with 3,000+ gyms that shouldn't coach or otherwise be paid to be around their children. I say start with those who are most adamantly defending their positions of innocence. Because if you are that closed minded about finding out what went wrong, if you are that intent on putting ego above solutions, then I simply don't trust you to have the best interests of the kids at heart. Walk the walk.

USAG has made some changes over the years, and seems like they are moving in a better direction this past year with SafeSport. It does take time. Better late than never and better some standards than none. But until they implement a zero tolerance policy for ANY abuse, and force all clubs and all employees of clubs to be subject to reasonable standards, our kids are at risk.

I'll wait.

It isn't just about being on the floor, a club cannot hire or be associated in any way with someone on the banned list and still be a USA Gymnastics member club.

 

[BachFlyer]

It isn't just about being on the floor, a club cannot hire or be associated in any way with someone on the banned list and still be a USA Gymnastics member club.

Ok, like I said, that's as I understood it. My fault if I'm wrong on that point, thanks for clearing that up.

But member clubs can, and do, still hire people who aren't USAG professional members, correct? And without background checks. And the banned list is really just those that have been convicted of specific "qualifying" violations, so it is far, far from exhaustive.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

You're right. I have no idea your involvement. Sounds extensive. For the record, if you were high up at USAG, you'd also be under a gag order according to even your own argument...

I'll tell you what I'm not going to do...stop pointing out when something is demonstrably false. I don't care who you are. You've been a resource on this board for a lot of information about coaching and tips over the years, some of which I've read and have found informative myself. But being a coach/club owner/former gymnast/longtime member of the community doesn't make you the ultimate authority on everything, and certainly doesn't mean that we should all defer to Dunno for "reasons". That's part of the problem and danger within this sport to begin with. We just accept blind authority without using our own critical thinking skills. USAG has work to do - from the top of the organization down to the individual club owners. We parents are the last line of defense. And if we don't start demanding accountability and paying attention when things seem fishy, then we are putting our kids at risk.

you see? that's the problem. the PARENTS are the FIRST line of defense in all this. you have it completely backwards. and i'm not going to go in to why. i've already said enough. and i'm under no gag as of yet. and i'm qualified to say this as i am a father, an uncle and a grandfather. my wife and me trusted NO ONE... either in spite of gymnastics...or because of it. and both of our own parents were the same way. these discussions did not take place in private. they were a part of the family dinner. everything was out on the food table. and within both of our families there were still 2 that got away from everybody and was not caught in the first instance.

you see, it's not necessary to tell me that anything is hurtful to the victims. we've lived it over here.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

This is also false information - the Feds didn't secure the warrant - they were given what was found bc it crossed state lines and fed porn charges hold a longer sentencing option then state charges and they wanted the max against him so they gave what they found to the Feds to bring charges against him quickly bc they wanted him in jail and it was easier to do with the porn!

Your posts are lots of false statements! They are hurtful to those who know many victims and they are misleading to the readers of this thread! You are not an authority on every subject and clearly your information is false and not factual!

no, this is not accurate. apparently you are not aware of what agencies showed up under warrant to Nasser's house. and i know several of the victims. i asked at least 2 of you to not go there.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

@dunno speaking of the banned list...is there some sort of procedure that goes into having a name put on there? I mean in my eyes, as a parent, and thinking about it in a way of putting myself in USAG's shoes, one would think that getting Nassar's name on that list as soon as humanly possible would be pretty high on the list. If anything else to at least give athletes, parents, and anyone else affiliated with USAG the peace of mind that it's being taken seriously.
I am honestly just curious as to why it takes so long to get a name added, and/or what the process is.

go to the Bylaws. the procedures are there. if you have any questions after you've read please ask.

https://usagym.org/PDFs/About USA Gymnastics/Governance/usag-bylaws.pdf

 

[suds]

you see? that's the problem. the PARENTS are the FIRST line of defense in all this.

So the good news: it sounds like you support dramatically increasing parent access to their own children while at training camps.

If parents are the first line of defense, then the corollary to this is they must have direct access to their own children.

I hope you use your influence to advocate for this improvement for child safety.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Ok, like I said, that's as I understood it. My fault if I'm wrong on that point, thanks for clearing that up.

But member clubs can, and do, still hire people who aren't USAG professional members, correct? And without background checks. And the banned list is really just those that have been convicted of specific "qualifying" violations, so it is far, far from exhaustive.

not anymore. and believe this or not...there is no one on that list that was a part time parent/volunteer/former gymnast coach that was not a pro member. in other words, the coaches you reference above who are "non credentialed" are nowhere to be found on that list. but club members will now have to do this with everyone.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

So the good news: it sounds like you support dramatically increasing parent access to their own children while at training camps.

If parents are the first line of defense, then the corollary to this is they must have direct access to their own children.

I hope you use your influence to advocate for this improvement for child safety.

yes. and communication between parents and their kids and coaches connecting all 3. the industry is still roiling in the fact that not one victim told anybody over all these years. but we understand why. what he did was Trojan Horse in a medical procedure. it is still my opinion that SOMEONE at MSU should have notified SOMEONE at USAG...i'll give them...2002. they knew he was our team doctor. he didn't get days off in a vacuum to do USAG events.

and maybe if females under the age of 18 had seen gynecologists as a rule instead of pediatricians i believe that a DR would have caught this much sooner. please don't ask me to explain why. i'm pretty sure you can all figure out why. it has to do with not using a glove. it's all very frustrating.

well hold on. i'll put it in a hypothetical. hypothetically speaking, if a young college age woman is an athlete, goes to health services on campus, she's now over 18 and must see a gynecologist, needs to renew a script for birth control, but renewal requires a pelvic exam and pap smear, and when the DR is finished, the athlete asks the DR "do you always wear gloves for an exam like that". the DR asks "why do you ask?".................

can you all extrapolate from that 'hypothetical'?

 

[BachFlyer]

no, this is not accurate. and i know several of the victims. i asked you to not go there.

Sorry, but you don't get to tell people not to say what they feel is necessary to say. You don't have that authority.

Your last answer is just ridiculous. Are you seriously saying that it is the fault of a parent not taking their 13 YEAR OLD to the gyno? Honestly. You should be ashamed of yourself. Frustrating is the wrong word. Try sickening.

 

[coachmolly]

I have known of an incident where a person on the banned list was involved with a member club, tried to fly under the radar in a pretty hands off role but I guess got involved enough that someone in the know brought it to the attention of local authorities. So no, being on the banned list doesn't necessarily prevent a person from being involved with a gym. This was a few years ago and USAG is trying to do better to fix the problem of offenders flying under the radar, but perpetrators of these kinds of acts are pretty exceptional and hiding in plain sight. It's a reminder that ALL involved (parents, coaches, gym owners) need to be vigilant. All parties need to keep tabs on the banned list, proper and thorough staff education, gym owners actually checking references/calling past employers of all applicants, educating kids on keeping their eyes open to dangers and how to report suspicious behaviors, the list goes on.

And maybe I'm reading this wrong, but are some of you alluding to the fact that the FBI was investigating Nassar's pornography habit for years BEFORE he left his position at USAG? Because that just boggles my mind that someone with a known child pornography problem that is being watched is allowed to continue working with children. Surely I need to be reading that wrong?

 

[txgymfan]

and maybe if females under the age of 18 had seen gynecologists as a rule instead of pediatricians i believe that a DR would have caught this much sooner. please don't ask me to explain why. i'm pretty sure you can all figure out why. it has to do with not using a glove. it's all very frustrating. /QUOTE]

This statement is flatly rediculous. Most children under 18 do not need to see a gyno. Most women see one for the first time around the age of starting college. There is ogenerally no need to see one sooner. Many see one later than that. Do you also recommend young men see a specialist before 18?

 

[BachFlyer]

For someone who really doesn't like to talk about this you sure do like to be an expert on getting specific with the details. We all know what he did. We don't need you to spell it out. Your hypothetical is absolutely irrelevant to this situation.

 

[Seeker]

Gaslighting 101.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

As it pertains to the age a girl should begin to see a gynecologist. 13-15 is the recommended age to start.

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[Deleted member D3987]

Sorry, but you don't get to tell people not to say what they feel is necessary to say. You don't have that authority.

Your last answer is just ridiculous. Are you seriously saying that it is the fault of a parent not taking their 13 YEAR OLD to the gyno? Honestly. You should be ashamed of yourself. Frustrating is the wrong word. Try sickening.

PLEASE...i'm not blaming anyone. this is about prevention and deterrence. everyone has asked how this happened and how he wasn't caught sooner. if everyone thinks that the DD report responds to any of this then everyone is misguided. if i'm the parent i'm not leaving it up to that report to be the remedy for deterrence and prevention. it starts in our own homes. i'm giving you what is being discussed by our profession. all the female coaches...my own wife.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

As it pertains to the age a girl should begin to see a gynecologist. 13-15 is the recommended age to start.

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well, yes. but how many actually do? we didn't with our own daughter.

 

[2Wally]

no, this is not accurate. apparently you are not aware of what agencies showed up under warrant to Nasser's house. and i know several of the victims. i asked at least 2 of you to not go there.

I am very aware and what you are saying is completely inaccurate.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I am very aware and what you are saying is completely inaccurate.

and i'm not going to argue.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I have known of an incident where a person on the banned list was involved with a member club, tried to fly under the radar in a pretty hands off role but I guess got involved enough that someone in the know brought it to the attention of local authorities. So no, being on the banned list doesn't necessarily prevent a person from being involved with a gym. This was a few years ago and USAG is trying to do better to fix the problem of offenders flying under the radar, but perpetrators of these kinds of acts are pretty exceptional and hiding in plain sight. It's a reminder that ALL involved (parents, coaches, gym owners) need to be vigilant. All parties need to keep tabs on the banned list, proper and thorough staff education, gym owners actually checking references/calling past employers of all applicants, educating kids on keeping their eyes open to dangers and how to report suspicious behaviors, the list goes on.

And maybe I'm reading this wrong, but are some of you alluding to the fact that the FBI was investigating Nassar's pornography habit for years BEFORE he left his position at USAG? Because that just boggles my mind that someone with a known child pornography problem that is being watched is allowed to continue working with children. Surely I need to be reading that wrong?

you're not.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

this one is better than most. but they don't explain what happened with one of the Ingham County investigations given to a prosecutor there. he was arrested in a prostitution ring. nasser's case went "missing" and MSU never followed up. if i find the story i'll post it. maybe many of you had already seen it.

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/page/msu_doctor_alleged_sexual_assault.html