Women USAG TOPs 2000 note to gymnasts

[twocurlygirlz]

I understand the need to make these gymnasts responsible and mature. I get that some parents, many really, are far too self involved. But as a teacher, I have to say these TOPS aged gymnasts are babies, 8-10 yo. The Only way to keep them truly safe is to have them travel and stay with parents. Had my child done TOPS, I would NEVER let her travel with just her coach no matter how much I trust him and her. She is My child, and my responsibility is to keep her safe. I always shutter at the thought of how blindly some parents act. Nassar is eye opening, but he is not by far the only one of his kind. My eyes are Always open.

If you have never been in that position you truly don't know how you would have responded. I have seen parents that years before their kid made TOPs would swear they would never send them anywhere alone and then when that email came- and the trip was planned...they were gone. I think its unfair to make a blanket statement that all parents who allow their kids to go with trusted adults are acting blindly. I know a few parents on here and in real life that I can tell you do not act blindly in anyway and still afforded their child the opportunity with those restrictions in place.

 

[twocurlygirlz]

I also think the "do not call your coach" is terrible in hindsight. Most docs written 17 years ago look terrible in hindsight but knowing these facts it really makes it seem even worse. We have no idea who drafted this letter or who had final say- imagine if Nassar had free reign on this doc-- with no oversight. It is scary- but unfortunately these predators are out there and this is reality =(

 

[Flicfliclay]

I understand the need to make these gymnasts responsible and mature. I get that some parents, many really, are far too self involved. But as a teacher, I have to say these TOPS aged gymnasts are babies, 8-10 yo. The Only way to keep them truly safe is to have them travel and stay with parents. Had my child done TOPS, I would NEVER let her travel with just her coach no matter how much I trust him and her. She is My child, and my responsibility is to keep her safe. I always shutter at the thought of how blindly some parents act. Nassar is eye opening, but he is not by far the only one of his kind. My eyes are Always open.

I love your reply! This is it in a nut shell! WE are the parents and for some odd reason USGA seems to block out parents every chance they can. This sport involves YOUNG girls and the parents should be involved in EVERY aspect! Fine you don't want us in the gym while camp is being conducted... fine.. but to not have the parents of an 8 year old staying with their child is absurd! I very much trust my daughters coaches, but I'm sorry there is a line that the coaches should not have to cross. Say shower time.. they shouldn't have to be the one that combs through an 8 year olds hair.. or be around at all after practice! NO!

 

[sce]

I understand the need to make these gymnasts responsible and mature. I get that some parents, many really, are far too self involved. But as a teacher, I have to say these TOPS aged gymnasts are babies, 8-10 yo. The Only way to keep them truly safe is to have them travel and stay with parents. Had my child done TOPS, I would NEVER let her travel with just her coach no matter how much I trust him and her. She is My child, and my responsibility is to keep her safe. I always shutter at the thought of how blindly some parents act. Nassar is eye opening, but he is not by far the only one of his kind. My eyes are Always open.

Kids travel without their parents, but with proper supervision usually. Starting at 8yo I went to Girl Scout events and camps without my parents. But there were 2 female leaders with my group for the troop trips. And a counselor for every cabin at camp. Again, female counselor. The gender does not remove the risk but lessens it greatly. Also, I was not on my own needing to call if there was a problem and I was not instructed to call a man if I had a problem in my housing, at night!

 

[Flicfliclay]

I love your reply! This is it in a nut shell! WE are the parents and for some odd reason USGA seems to block out parents every chance they can. This sport involves YOUNG girls and the parents should be involved in EVERY aspect! Fine you don't want us in the gym while camp is being conducted... fine.. but to not have the parents of an 8 year old staying with their child is absurd! I very much trust my daughters coaches, but I'm sorry there is a line that the coaches should not have to cross. Say shower time.. they shouldn't have to be the one that combs through an 8 year olds hair.. or be around at all after practice! NO!

I don't blame parents for sending their DD with their coaches if they feel it is okay. BUT they shouldn't have to make that choice.

 

[Jard.the.gymnast]

Kids travel without their parents, but with proper supervision usually. Starting at 8yo I went to Girl Scout events and camps without my parents. But there were 2 female leaders with my group for the troop trips. And a counselor for every cabin at camp. Again, female counselor. The gender does not remove the risk but lessens it greatly. Also, I was not on my own needing to call if there was a problem and I was not instructed to call a man if I had a problem in my housing, at night!

Does anyone know why we evolved to not trust men? I do it myself too, but in the end we are all human. We have the same needs and we want the same things. Why is the men untrusted and the women trusted (speaking in general)

 

[John]

Does anyone know why we evolved to not trust men? I do it myself too, but in the end we are all human. We have the same needs and we want the same things. Why is the men untrusted and the women trusted (speaking in general)

Most men are fathers and are trust worthy. I took my DD's friend to the beach with us. I think of her as my second daughter. The problem is little girls don't usually get sexually assaulted by a woman. So the male is not trusted. It's sad but true. I have done it myself.

 

[notthatmom]

Does anyone know why we evolved to not trust men? I do it myself too, but in the end we are all human. We have the same needs and we want the same things. Why is the men untrusted and the women trusted (speaking in general)

Because statistically, most sex offenders are men. It's not an absurd request to ensure that a female chaperone be with younger females at night. Like someone else said, it doesn't completely outrule the risk, but it lessens it drastically.

The fact that the "solution" to an issue one of the girls may have in the middle of the night is to call some dude they barely know is completely crazy to me, that coupled with being restricted from calling their coach? It makes no sense.

 

[Madden3]

Hi, so here is my opinion.

It is clear that for decades USAG did not follow (or require USAG entities to follow) safe practices for protecting children from abuse by gym professional staff or volunteers.
USAG is now (very belatedly) attempting to rectify this situation.

We did not need any more evidence that USAG not only dropped the ball but actually (probably inadvertently) promoted unsafe practices that increased the likelihood of abuse. But my guess is that over time, we will see more evidence.

It is not about Nassar or any one other individual predator. It is about access and opportunity as in you must prevent predators from having access and opportunity with universal safe practices. You protect kids from ALL adults (and even other kids) even though the vast majority of adults and other kids are entirely safe. This is because it is impossible to know who is unsafe (until that person is caught and a public record created.)

As far as male vs. female. Yes most men are entirely safe. However the statistics are clear- overall, women are vastly safer than men and if your child is ever in a situation where they need to seek help from a stranger or someone you do not know personally and very well and trust entirely, they should be taught to seek help from a woman who is alone or with children. This is explained in detail in the book Protecting the Gift.

 

[BachFlyer]

It was 17 years ago. It no longer matters.

He was part of the organization in a place high trust. Many balls were dropped. Turns out he is a nasty dude and he is now gone.

It absolutely matters. Perhaps not to you, but it matters quite a bit to those who were victims.

It is blind trust in combination with policies that discourage outside oversight that allowed those kids to be abused. It points to the culture that puts 8-10 year old girls in cabins alone at night without a chaperone, and neglects to realize that bad things can happen in that situation. It matters to those who might be the victims of the next creep that comes along, if USAG doesn't own up to some of their mistakes.

Any number of things could have gone wrong, not just sexual abuse - kids get hurt or have medical emergencies all the time. The kids should not be alone at camp at that age without immediate access to an adult. That is coming from someone who SENT my kid. I have been at the camp. In retrospect and in light of what I know now, I am not proud of that decision.

 

[coachmolly]

I think it's a clear example of how USAG let down their athletes and put them in a position to be abused or mistreated. It's not specifically about Nassar, it's the fact that USAG created a policy that put athletes in a potentially dangerous situation. And the wording is absolutely a red flag. At a camp for 8-11 year old kids, they should never be alone and in a position where they need to contact someone in the first place. Children at that age should be in the gym with their coaches or with a same sex chaperone, and never alone with either. If for some reason they are alone, that first point of contact should be someone they know- a coach or parent who can then inform appropriate staff. Unless it is a serious medical emergency, in which case the first contact should be 911. Dr. Nassar is an osteopathic sports medicine doctor, I doubt he would have been any more helpful at dealing with a puking kid than a parent or a coach with children at home. At that time they were not being housed at the ranch, but in hotel rooms. In that case, I feel like each team should have been responsible for providing a parent chaperone to stay with the athletes who could be the advocate in the case of emergency. I coach 8-11 year olds, no way would I bring them to a camp/away meet and expect them to stay in a hotel room without at least one mom present. That itself was a bad call.
I think TOPs camps now employ teen/college aged girls to serve as cabin counselors, I can only hope they are properly briefed on how to address emergency situations, who is/is not allowed into the cabins, and informed on every measure to keep athletes safe.

 

[Randomactsofcheer]

Does anyone know why we evolved to not trust men? I do it myself too, but in the end we are all human. We have the same needs and we want the same things. Why is the men untrusted and the women trusted (speaking in general)

I agree that men are less trusted around little girls, but I don't necessarily think this is anything new.

I think in this situation (even without the knowledge that Nassar was a disgusting creep), the gymnasts should have been told to contact their personal coach that they already have a relationship with. Then the coach could make the decision on who should help the gymnast. And there should have also been two female chaperones for every two rooms of gymnasts. Female for the obvious reasons that it just wouldn't be appropriate for a male that isn't a relative to stay with the girls, but also because these girls are 8-10 years old and may need help with things that would only be appropriate for a female adult to help with. When my daughter was 8, she didn't need help taking a shower, but she did need help adjusting the water temp before she got in. She scalded herself at a hotel once when she was 7 and still, at the age of 10, asks us to adjust the water temp for her before she gets in.

I think having two adults in a room is always better for accountability reasons. Especially if the adults are strangers to the children they are caring for. That goes for a hotel room, office, gym, etc. I wouldn't leave my child alone with her coach, male or female, for a private lesson if no one else was at the gym. And none of her coaches would allow that, either. And I have noticed the coaches at DDs gym leave their office doors open when speaking to a gymnast alone. Or they take them into the dance room where you can see in on all sides from the outside.

 

[l.c.o]

From a parent's perspective, it's all pretty appalling.

I get that parents can be crazy and overprotective. But to remove them completely from any decision-making, particularly when their minor child is away from home, is in my opinion, wrong.

It's disturbing as it completely reeks. To me, it's a giant red flag. WHY must the parents be so removed? What is happening that, historically, they've been so afraid of parents getting wind of?

WHY WHY WHY WHY?

I mean, I'm not really suggesting USAG is heading some giant conspiracy to ruin all of our kids. But at the very least the optics of this are awful. I wish it was better acknowledged.

My DD is 13 and is a total people pleaser. Many gymnasts are. They want to make their coaches happy. They know their families are making sacrifices for the sport, so they don't want to let them down, either. Maybe some parents and coaches are putting additional pressure on the kids, living vicariously through them. It's a recipe for disaster - all it needs is that final ingredient (bad person) for it to go south quickly...

I hate that the focus is "parents are bad, so give us your child and stay away or be gone with you" rather than "this is why you should trust us with your kid, let me prove it to you". Maybe some of my frustration is out of hindsight given the current situation, but this whole thing seems to go against my instincts as a parent. I am uncomfortable with just the idea of my kid traveling for an athlete only meet with her teammates - and I trust her coaches, and she has a cell phone. I just can't imagine.

Sorry for the novel here, but I needed to get this off my chest.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

This is exactly the sort of thing that does matter. It shows USAG's part in the overall problem.

And none of it is new information. We know USAG is part of the problem. That was the point I was trying to make.

That it happened of course matters. Posting the letter now, doesn't.

We know it happpened.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I understand the need to make these gymnasts responsible and mature. I get that some parents, many really, are far too self involved. But as a teacher, I have to say these TOPS aged gymnasts are babies, 8-10 yo. The Only way to keep them truly safe is to have them travel and stay with parents. Had my child done TOPS, I would NEVER let her travel with just her coach no matter how much I trust him and her. She is My child, and my responsibility is to keep her safe. I always shutter at the thought of how blindly some parents act. Nassar is eye opening, but he is not by far the only one of his kind. My eyes are Always open.

This.

 

[Gymmommy71]

I love your reply! This is it in a nut shell! WE are the parents and for some odd reason USGA seems to block out parents every chance they can. This sport involves YOUNG girls and the parents should be involved in EVERY aspect! Fine you don't want us in the gym while camp is being conducted... fine.. but to not have the parents of an 8 year old staying with their child is absurd! I very much trust my daughters coaches, but I'm sorry there is a line that the coaches should not have to cross. Say shower time.. they shouldn't have to be the one that combs through an 8 year olds hair.. or be around at all after practice! NO!

These two posts epitomize how I feel - the "anti-parent" culture in elite gymnastics is ridiculous. It needs to change.

 

[twinmomma]

And none of it is new information. We know USAG is part of the problem. That was the point I was trying to make.

That it happened of course matters. Posting the letter now, doesn't.

We know it happpened.

Posting the letter points to a culture that allowed and practically encouraged this man's behavior. Uncovering these types of things point to the full breadth of issues that USAG needs to address. It goes to show that getting rid of him ISN'T enough. I would also remind folks that while this is all centered here at USAG, it is not the only place this sort of horrible thing happens. I unfortunately went to school with a guy who was convicted of things I care not to discuss but he was their swimming coach. A guy where I live was convicted of sleeping with his soccer student.

I think there's a bigger issue than USAG that we as PARENTS need to look at ourselves. I'll likely be unpopular for this opinion, but I think we too often get blinded by the thought that our kid could get a college scholarship or "go pro" that we are willing to look past our own internal alarms to allow things that we would never allow to happen with say, their English teacher. I'm not saying the situation with Nassar is the parent's fault - don't mistake me at all. What I'm saying is this culture of "trust the coach blindly" and such where parents are actively excluded and we often become fearful that our kids will suffer if we ask too many questions or don't blindly trust doesn't help matters any.

 

[suds]

It is important for historical information ( such as the USAG 2000 TOPS Camp letter that was posted ) to be reviewed and contemplated. If we don’t learn from history, we are bound to repeat the same mistakes.

“We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.”
- Albert Einstein

 

[GymmieC]

I understand what you are saying and honestly, I speak for myself. No. I would not let my child travel alone. I never have and I never will. Even a trip to Great America, and she is 13. Her coach will tell you. I emailed and said I was coming along. Anything can happen. I try not to be overbearing, but my life experiences have kept me on high alert. I have been THIS way with my children since day one.

 

[eucoach]

Don't you guys have 2-3 day school field trips in 3rd or 4th grade when kids are just 8-10 years old?
In my country we do, and children stay overnight, usually in rooms of 4, while the teachers stay in different rooms.
So to me, the fact that they had the girls stay in a hotel without a chaperone in the room, is not weird at all.

In Nassar's case, no amount of safeguarding could have probably prevented the abuse. Remember - he abused one of his victims while her mother was in the room. And as far as I remember, he did not have much prior access to her before.

Of course - listing him as a person to call in a case of emergency by a minor female is just weird and very inappropriate.....and, as we now know, naive.