Parents Why does our gym...

[ProudDad]

From your posts it doesn't sound like you have a lot of options to make changes just yet. Hopefully your upcoming move will grant you the opportunity to find something better suited to your DD and your family. For now (and when interviewing future gyms) I would look at the higher level girls and how the optional team does in meets. While gymnastics is an individual sport, there is still very much a team element. If a gym travels to at least one 'big' meet (not just competing against the same handful of local gyms over-and-over) and has one or more teams consistently placing in the top 3, then they must be doing something right.

I think our previous gym has a great program, and their results showed it... even with way more standing around and waiting than I liked. However, now that I see a similar coaching philosophy with a bigger budget, more coaches and equipment it is unbelievable the difference it can make. DD (11y/o) has put on nearly 8lbs of solid muscle in 3 months and has gone from randomly grazing with occasional bursts of hungry eating to a being on par with a high school varsity football player at the dinner table every day - and she loves it, even complaining when the conditioning is too easy.

I don't know your DD and what drives her, but having 5 of my own, I consistently saw at that age new things they found at special occasions made them want to repeat it - like setting up stations like they saw at a camp on their own. Whether its a novelty or she really feels like her training is lacking is something you'll have to figure out with her, but it doesn't seem like something to stress too much about in the short term unless it creating issues for her and your family.

 

[Peachy88]

I should probably update that we had an eval at a gym an hour away and they loved her and she loved them and the facilities and coaching environment. We will be switching after meet season in March as we have already paid and they are in a different region. It isn’t an elite gym but they do have level 10s and have sent some in the college on scholarship. They were completely blow away by her and I was blown away by watching them coach her. It was so refreshing! She also completely turned it on and was a thrill to watch!

From your posts it doesn't sound like you have a lot of options to make changes just yet. Hopefully your upcoming move will grant you the opportunity to find something better suited to your DD and your family. For now (and when interviewing future gyms) I would look at the higher level girls and how the optional team does in meets. While gymnastics is an individual sport, there is still very much a team element. If a gym travels to at least one 'big' meet (not just competing against the same handful of local gyms over-and-over) and has one or more teams consistently placing in the top 3, then they must be doing something right.

I think our previous gym has a great program, and their results showed it... even with way more standing around and waiting than I liked. However, now that I see a similar coaching philosophy with a bigger budget, more coaches and equipment it is unbelievable the difference it can make. DD (11y/o) has put on nearly 8lbs of solid muscle in 3 months and has gone from randomly grazing with occasional bursts of hungry eating to a being on par with a high school varsity football player at the dinner table every day - and she loves it, even complaining when the conditioning is too easy.

I don't know your DD and what drives her, but having 5 of my own, I consistently saw at that age new things they found at special occasions made them want to repeat it - like setting up stations like they saw at a camp on their own. Whether its a novelty or she really feels like her training is lacking is something you'll have to figure out with her, but it doesn't seem like something to stress too much about in the short term unless it creating issues for her and your family.

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From your posts it doesn't sound like you have a lot of options to make changes just yet. Hopefully your upcoming move will grant you the opportunity to find something better suited to your DD and your family. For now (and when interviewing future gyms) I would look at the higher level girls and how the optional team does in meets. While gymnastics is an individual sport, there is still very much a team element. If a gym travels to at least one 'big' meet (not just competing against the same handful of local gyms over-and-over) and has one or more teams consistently placing in the top 3, then they must be doing something right.

I think our previous gym has a great program, and their results showed it... even with way more standing around and waiting than I liked. However, now that I see a similar coaching philosophy with a bigger budget, more coaches and equipment it is unbelievable the difference it can make. DD (11y/o) has put on nearly 8lbs of solid muscle in 3 months and has gone from randomly grazing with occasional bursts of hungry eating to a being on par with a high school varsity football player at the dinner table every day - and she loves it, even complaining when the conditioning is too easy.

I don't know your DD and what drives her, but having 5 of my own, I consistently saw at that age new things they found at special occasions made them want to repeat it - like setting up stations like they saw at a camp on their own. Whether its a novelty or she really feels like her training is lacking is something you'll have to figure out with her, but it doesn't seem like something to stress too much about in the short term unless it creating issues for her and your family.

ate

 

[Peachy88]

I just watched some of the practice tonight and it is just heart breaking how much worse she performs for this coach. During her routine, the coach barks corrections at them and then they sit there and watch all 9 other girls on their team do the same routine.

Does anyone know if it would be possible for her to compete Xcel Silver at this other gym if they would take her and leave sooner? (She learns routines very fast) Our states for comp is March, but their Xcel season starts in Jan because it is a different region. I just want to feel like she is not just wasting her time.

 

[amiandjim]

I just watched some of the practice tonight and it is just heart breaking how much worse she performs for this coach. During her routine, the coach barks corrections at them and then they sit there and watch all 9 other girls on their team do the same routine.

Does anyone know if it would be possible for her to compete Xcel Silver at this other gym if they would take her and leave sooner? (She learns routines very fast) Our states for comp is March, but their Xcel season starts in Jan because it is a different region. I just want to feel like she is not just wasting her time.

If they can get her into their meets, and get her a leo, etc...she can compete.

 

[ProudDad]

I just watched some of the practice tonight and it is just heart breaking how much worse she performs for this coach. During her routine, the coach barks corrections at them and then they sit there and watch all 9 other girls on their team do the same routine.

Does anyone know if it would be possible for her to compete Xcel Silver at this other gym if they would take her and leave sooner? (She learns routines very fast) Our states for comp is March, but their Xcel season starts in Jan because it is a different region. I just want to feel like she is not just wasting her time.

That is something only the coaches at the other gym could tell you. The Xcel program offers a lot of flexibility, so depending on her skill level and the philosophy of the gym - maybe - depending on what she competed previously. Many gyms will do mobility meets shortly before season for the express purpose of advancing levels.

Some gyms are funny about competition levels... one that we competed against regularly had very talented girls that could have easily competed at least 1 level higher, but this gym made it a point to hold them back so they would crowd out the podium in nearly every event, typically by a good margin. I even overheard a L6 complaining that she had to "dumb it down" and not do her Yerchenko at a meet. I've also seen gyms that cave to pushy parents and allow girls to compete in a level they are barely ready for... watching an entire team of girls with bent arms bounce off of vault tables with their heads at a late season meet is frustrating to watch as a parent too.

A good gym will fall in between those extremes and take into account abilities and mental readiness of each individual athlete... some girls need the kick in the butt that a low scoring meet offers... while others would be absolutely crushed by it. If they are thinking about the gymnast more than the gym reputation (or how deep your wallet is) they'll place her in a level that is both safe and fun/challenging for her.

 

[Peachy88]

That is something only the coaches at the other gym could tell you. The Xcel program offers a lot of flexibility, so depending on her skill level and the philosophy of the gym - maybe - depending on what she competed previously. Many gyms will do mobility meets shortly before season for the express purpose of advancing levels.

Some gyms are funny about competition levels... one that we competed against regularly had very talented girls that could have easily competed at least 1 level higher, but this gym made it a point to hold them back so they would crowd out the podium in nearly every event, typically by a good margin. I even overheard a L6 complaining that she had to "dumb it down" and not do her Yerchenko at a meet. I've also seen gyms that cave to pushy parents and allow girls to compete in a level they are barely ready for... watching an entire team of girls with bent arms bounce off of vault tables with their heads at a late season meet is frustrating to watch as a parent too.

A good gym will fall in between those extremes and take into account abilities and mental readiness of each individual athlete... some girls need the kick in the butt that a low scoring meet offers... while others would be absolutely crushed by it. If they are thinking about the gymnast more than the gym reputation (or how deep your wallet is) they'll place her in a level that is both safe and fun/challenging for her.

They were talking about her doing 4 and 5 next Fall, but they don’t do level 3 and only do xcel bronze and silver if they are not ready for level 4. She has all the gold skills but can’t do gold because she is only 6. On meet scores they seem to be in the middle with good scores but not holding girls back. Of course I will discuss this with them but wanted to see if it was a reasonable possibility before I asked. She will have done 3 level 3 meets by Jan. But we haven’t paid beyond that. I also know they keep their xcel very low cost.

 

[M2Abi]

If you want her to have better training, I wouldn't even worry about if she could compete Xcel or not. Have her compete the Level 3 meets that you've paid for already and then have her start training for Level 4.

 

[ProudDad]

If you want her to have better training, I wouldn't even worry about if she could compete Xcel or not. Have her compete the Level 3 meets that you've paid for already and then have her start training for Level 4.

Xcel can be a tricky thing depending on the gym and the region. It's only been the last few years that gyms took it seriously and used it as intended. For example, my DD went to a gym that didn't compete compulsories, but used the Xcel program instead. The Bronze, silver, and gold were used as 3,4, and 5/6 respectively. In region 8 it was relatively common to see that, but there are a lot of places that don't use xcel as it should - it sounds like your gym may be one if they think gold isn't good enough for level 4. The golds from our former gym typically scored mid 37+ after the moving into the JO program as 6/7.

 

[amiandjim]

Xcel can be a tricky thing depending on the gym and the region. It's only been the last few years that gyms took it seriously and used it as intended. For example, my DD went to a gym that didn't compete compulsories, but used the Xcel program instead. The Bronze, silver, and gold were used as 3,4, and 5/6 respectively. In region 8 it was relatively common to see that, but there are a lot of places that don't use xcel as it should - it sounds like your gym may be one if they think gold isn't good enough for level 4. The golds from our former gym typically scored mid 37+ after the moving into the JO program as 6/7.

You realize your old gym used Xcel exactly as USAG did NOT intend it to be used right?? It certainly was never intended to be used to circumvent compulsories.

 

[Peachy88]

You realize your old gym used Xcel exactly as USAG did NOT intend it to be used right?? It certainly was never intended to be used to circumvent compulsories.

This debate will continue less xcel puts a cap on training hours or makes it much harder to transition to jo.

 

[amiandjim]

This debate will continue less xcel puts a cap on training hours or makes it much harder to transition to jo.

I know. My daughter does JO and we really have no dog in this fight, but I feel badly for the girls whose gyms treat Xcel as it was intended, but then have to compete against girls training 20 hours a week.

 

[Peachy88]

I know. My daughter does JO and we really have no dog in this fight, but I feel badly for the girls whose gyms treat Xcel as it was intended, but then have to compete against girls training 20 hours a week.

Around here girls will do XB and then transition to level 3 or XS and go to level 4. Xcel is in spring and compulsaries are in fall so I think it makes a nice way to transition.

It does mean that all XB girls are competing against future JO girls but as they progress the field gets more equitable.

 

[ProudDad]

You realize your old gym used Xcel exactly as USAG did NOT intend it to be used right?? It certainly was never intended to be used to circumvent compulsories.

The guidance for the xcel program when coming from JO is that 1,2 -> Bronze | 2,3 Silver | 3,4,5,6 Gold. That is a WIDE spread for how a gym uses the program...

I just gave two extreme examples to demonstrate the flexibility of the xcel program and why it was important for OP to consider how her DDs gym would use it, if the gym uses it as:

only do xcel bronze and silver if they are not ready for level 4

Then it would be wise to find out if that means they get extra training and compete hard to make it to 4 or if they use it as a lower commitment (financially and hours) revenue stream to keep kids (and parents) interested enough to stay in the sport. If its the latter it would be a waste of his money and her time.

In any case there are many gyms that are training up a level (or more) so the question I would have for the gym is which option gives her the best chance to have a fun and safe path to a competitive scoring season. Coming from a parent with a young L8/9 that was always in the bottom age bracket, its not always a blessing. That lowest age bracket is hyper-competitive (typically has the highest scores out of all the brackets) and once you hit L8 the toll it takes on a body and mind is intense...

 

[Peachy88]

The guidance for the xcel program when coming from JO is that 1,2 -> Bronze | 2,3 Silver | 3,4,5,6 Gold. That is a WIDE spread for how a gym uses the program...

I just gave two extreme examples to demonstrate the flexibility of the xcel program and why it was important for OP to consider how her DDs gym would use it, if the gym uses it as:



Then it would be wise to find out if that means they get extra training and compete hard to make it to 4 or if they use it as a lower commitment (financially and hours) revenue stream to keep kids (and parents) interested enough to stay in the sport. If its the latter it would be a waste of his money and her time.

In any case there are many gyms that are training up a level (or more) so the question I would have for the gym is which option gives her the best chance to have a fun and safe path to a competitive scoring season. Coming from a parent with a young L8/9 that was always in the bottom age bracket, its not always a blessing. That lowest age bracket is hyper-competitive (typically has the highest scores out of all the brackets) and once you hit L8 the toll it takes on a body and mind is intense...

Nevermind

 

[Deleted member 18037]

You realize your old gym used Xcel exactly as USAG did NOT intend it to be used right?? It certainly was never intended to be used to circumvent compulsories.

Took the words right out of my mouth

 

[Deleted member 18037]

The guidance for the xcel program when coming from JO is that 1,2 -> Bronze | 2,3 Silver | 3,4,5,6 Gold. That is a WIDE spread for how a gym uses the program...

That is the approximate skill comparison.

Xcel was intended to be a program that offered lower hours then a JO program to keep kids in the sport who didn't want the commitment of a high hour JO program, or perhaps the skill level for a JO program. A win for the gymnast and the revenue for the gym, also a win. It was not meant to by pass compulsories.

 

[LJL07]

That is the approximate skill comparison.

Xcel was intended to be a program that offered lower hours then a JO program to keep kids in the sport who didn't want the commitment of a high hour JO program, or perhaps the skill level for a JO program. A win for the gymnast and the revenue for the gym, also a win. It was not meant to by pass compulsories.

You are so right. Yet there are a number of gyms using it to circumvent Compulsories, and they have very young kids who then score out of 4/5 and go straight to optionals. Are there no age requirements for xcel? I wonder if that is one rationale. Also seems to be an avenue to push these very young kids up the levels too quickly.

 

[Peachy88]

You are so right. Yet there are a number of gyms using it to circumvent Compulsories, and they have very young kids who then score out of 4/5 and go straight to optionals. Are there no age requirements for xcel? I wonder if that is one rationale. Also seems to be an avenue to push these very young kids up the levels too quickly.

I thought it was because they got to do more interesting routines and tailor skills early on while the girls perfect the compulsory skills. It is stiffeling to do the same routines year after year after year I am sure.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I thought it was because they got to do more interesting routines and tailor skills early on while the girls perfect the compulsory skills. It is stiffeling to do the same routines year after year after year I am sure.

Unless you are repeating a level it’s not the same routine.

And interesting is a matter of opinion.

Again the intent was to give gymnasts the option of a less stressful track, keeping more kids (and their parents money) in gymnastics

 

[Peachy88]

Unless you are repeating a level it’s not the same routine.

And interesting is a matter of opinion.

Again the intent was to give gymnasts the option of a less stressful track, keeping more kids (and their parents money) in gymnastics

I was meaning for the coaches. You are correct that interesting is a matter of opinion, but so many people complain about the compulsory music, etc. I know the intent of Xcel, I was referring to the possible reasoning of gyms to use Xcel vs. Compulsories for those skill levels.