Coaches Yama****a Vault

[kalgymcoach]

Just wondering if anyone has any drills for the Yama****a Vault. It a new vault in our syllabus. I know some basic, basic drills ie. v snaps on floor. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Iwannabemargo]

No drills but I do think a good Yama****a looks lovely

 

[skschlag]

If you have a men's program, talk to the coach. They have been doing it for a while. Although from what I hear, most don't really like it.

 

[BlairBob]

No, it's a waste of time.

 

[kalgymcoach]

Thanks I thought this was a forum to get help, not shot down. Thank you to iwannabemargo and skschlag for your positive thoughts.

 

[skschlag]

I think what he means, and what I have heard other coaches say, is that it is a vault that leads no where and that there are better vaults to teach that progress to something. Our boys do this one because they have to, but it doesn't lead to the next vault, or do anything from there. It is the end. Plus, some kids have a hard time going back to a good handspring vault after that because of the pike in the middle. Our coach really doesn't like it.

 

[iwannacoach]

I'm pretty certain BlairBob meat that it's a pity have to follow a syllabus that requires work on this vault. It really has so little value that the time spent on it in no way compensates the coach and the gymnasts with anything productive that can be used elsewhere

 

[BlairBob]

pike jump open on tramp?

can't really think of much nor have I ever heard of much besides hate of the yami in MAG.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I will chime in, we have an outstanding mens program in our gym, and the coaching staff, (one of which is on the board and helped to write the new routines) are all totally stoked on the Yami. It appears that the yami is used a lot in training the front vaults on an international level. Hence the reason it was re-introduced into compulsory level. I don't remember which top vaulting coach rediscovered the benefits of doing Yami's, but I will ask tonight at gym and will find out any drills that they used. The only complaints that I hear is they put the yami in a level that was to low and would of liked to have the kids do one more year of handsprings prior to the Yami. Other than that, it appears to be an effective tool in mens gymnastics. I'm not sure about it's usage in WAG because everything is centered around the round off entry vaults. (although I do have a couple of front handspring fronts on my girls team which killed it this year).

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I absolutely hate that vault, think it's a complete waste of time, and I'm utterly mystified as to why the men's JO committee seems to like it and as to why anybody else would ever want to teach it.

BUT, HAVING SAID THAT

The best drill I've seen for it is the handstand block to handstand. Stack mats behind the table to at least table height, and have the gymnast block and land back in a handstand on the mat stack. In other words, they should hit the table and then block such that all their power goes into height and none goes into rotation, and they're still in handstand when they land on the mat. Over time, you can stack the mats up higher.

In this way, the gymnast is practicing a very strong block, and is also practicing killing their rotation on table contact (ungh) in the same way they have to for a Yama****a.

Awhile back, Valentin posted a really great video (or at least, as great as we can get when we're talking about Yama****as) by Raj Bhavsar's coach (whose name elludes me at the moment) about Yama****a progressions. I'll see if I can find it when I get home tonight.

But still, it's such a developmentally useless vault that it's a shame that anybody should ever be required to teach it. That same time would be far better spent on drills for yurchenkos, or handspring fronts, or pretty much any vault other than a Yami.

EDIT: To clarify, the reason I hate the Yami is that the biggest challenge in learning it is learning to kill one's rotation. Why anybody would want to spend a season learning to NOT rotate on vault is beyond me; that's exactly the opposite of what kids need to learn in order to perform strong upper-level vaults.

 

[skschlag]

I agree.

D said that he does a drill where he blocks on a stacked mat, with another mat beyond it. He then pikes and lands on his butt. Not sure that it makes sense or not.


As a former diver, all I can picture is these kids doing a reverse dive onto the mats..YIKES. That is totally what it looks like!

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

And to add: I will concede that a well-executed Yama****a is aesthetically a very beautiful vault. I won't dispute that at all. I just hate it because it's a developmental dead end, and the habits a gymnast has to learn to perform a good Yama****a are habits that they will have to then unlearn in order to perform a strong handspring front.

 

[BlairBob]

^^^ Exactly, twice.

Let's teach a vault to learn to kill rotation, then we'll push hand front in L9.

Mainly I think they didn't want to require Hand Front in L7 so this is the best they could come up with and judge.

Only other option is Handspring to feet on a resi and I'd guess they want a vault they have to "stick." I think that's the vault in Future Stars.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I think the vault should be a handspring onto a resi, and I think JO should adopt the future stars rule of not taking landing deductions for overrotation.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I will chime in, we have an outstanding mens program in our gym, and the coaching staff, (one of which is on the board and helped to write the new routines) are all totally stoked on the Yami. It appears that the yami is used a lot in training the front vaults on an international level. Hence the reason it was re-introduced into compulsory level. I don't remember which top vaulting coach rediscovered the benefits of doing Yami's, but I will ask tonight at gym and will find out any drills that they used. The only complaints that I hear is they put the yami in a level that was to low and would of liked to have the kids do one more year of handsprings prior to the Yami. Other than that, it appears to be an effective tool in mens gymnastics. I'm not sure about it's usage in WAG because everything is centered around the round off entry vaults. (although I do have a couple of front handspring fronts on my girls team which killed it this year).

long term, the Yami is a dead end skill. Mas can be misguided also...

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Okay, this is what I was told by the mens side today about the Yami.
First off, the drills,
They stack mats behind the vault and teach a strong heal drive to block/pike land on mat in pike. Landing in a pike (on butt) on the mat is the key to this drill. then keep adding mats until they are blocking up several mats higher than the table.
Also, a front lay, with strong heal drive off the floor or a board to quick pike open, into a pit. And a lot of board position drills, sprinting into the pit and hurdle with feet in front and hands back, (underswing). They do it in the pit because they don't want the kids to land on butts with hands back, (break arms etc..).

Now this is what I was told was the reason for putting the Yami in. The USA mens side hasn't been real strong on vault in international competition, particularly front vaults. The yami is used in Japan, China, Korea etc.. as a training tool to get better front vaults. Tom Meadows apparently agrees with this and has pushed the Yami and the importance of it in the JO program here in the US. Obviously he must use it and can see the potential of it, when used in conjunction with training, twisting lays, double pikes etc... As far as why work front vaults over back vaults in the mens program, I was told that front vaults have a higher start value when compared (flip for flip or twist for twist) to back vaults. Now I have never looked at a mens vaulting chart, so I am only telling you what I was told today. Hope that helps.

 

[kalgymcoach]

Thanks everyone, where I coach the best vaults we are allowed to do are full twist off, yami's, yuchenko's, so I appreciate everyone trying to help with drills even if you don't like them. Cheers

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Okay, this is what I was told by the mens side today about the Yami.
First off, the drills,
They stack mats behind the vault and teach a strong heal drive to block/pike land on mat in pike. Landing in a pike (on butt) on the mat is the key to this drill. then keep adding mats until they are blocking up several mats higher than the table.
Also, a front lay, with strong heal drive off the floor or a board to quick pike open, into a pit. And a lot of board position drills, sprinting into the pit and hurdle with feet in front and hands back, (underswing). They do it in the pit because they don't want the kids to land on butts with hands back, (break arms etc..).

Now this is what I was told was the reason for putting the Yami in. The USA mens side hasn't been real strong on vault in international competition, particularly front vaults. The yami is used in Japan, China, Korea etc.. as a training tool to get better front vaults. Tom Meadows apparently agrees with this and has pushed the Yami and the importance of it in the JO program here in the US. Obviously he must use it and can see the potential of it, when used in conjunction with training, twisting lays, double pikes etc... As far as why work front vaults over back vaults in the mens program, I was told that front vaults have a higher start value when compared (flip for flip or twist for twist) to back vaults. Now I have never looked at a mens vaulting chart, so I am only telling you what I was told today. Hope that helps.

coachp, that's about it in a nut shell. but they are misguided in their thinking. Yami's really have nothing to do with front end vaulting. but they are promoting front vaults because the code values those higher and that's true.