Arm circle on level 4 vault?

[Imat3]

Is the arm circle required on the level 4 vault?

Why do some teams do the arm circle and some don't?

It seems that the teams who do it, get higher vault scores.

Just wondering...

Imat3

 

[kristilyn73]

doing an arm circle before a vault helps propell the body upward. Therefore, putting the body in better position for a vault!

Or that is what I have learned - a coach who was a gymnast might have a better answer!

 

[lannamavity]

Is the arm circle required on the level 4 vault?

Why do some teams do the arm circle and some don't?

It seems that the teams who do it, get higher vault scores.

Just wondering...

Imat3

An "arm circle" does not make a vault better or worse.

The important thing is that the arms are down when the athlete's feet hit the board (to better compress the springs), and then forward upward to contact the table/stack of mats. Little kids can sometimes differentiate between an "underarm swing" and an "overarm swing" by circling the arms backwards before hitting the board. It's a trick of the trade.

Judges are not to judge the technique of the hurdle in Level 4 or any part of the vault before the gymnast leaves the board Level 5&up.

Some of the best vaulters in the world never circle their arms or have their arms down on the board.

 

[BlairBob]

If memory serves it is not required in the women's JO program ( it is in the men's ).
It is being made compulsory in the men's because the theory behind it states that it allows for a more aggressive board punch. A gymnast's arms will circle down and behind and try to sync and coordinate with their body pushing more into the board.

More often that not, the girls that hit the board with arms up don't really have an aggressive board punch. A simple arm lift is better than that ( arms down by the hips when hitting the board, lifting when pushing off the board ).

 

[lannamavity]

Vault #1 has nothing even close to an "arm circle"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72EVaH-hfaw


nice, huh?

 

[Imat3]

Thanks a lot for your help.

The reason I ask is that we were at a meet this weekend and our girls' vault scores were low. Another coach said the reason was that this particular judge was taking off if the girls did NOT do an arm circle. It is not in the text, but just preference of that judge, I guess.

I will pay more attention to the position of the girls arms at workout tonight. I think that most of them may have their arms up when they hit the board. We are still having issues with them reaching toward the mat stack and closing their shoulder angle, but they are getting better. We have been doing drills where they have to reach up over an obstacle. It seems to be helping.

So, their arms should be down when they hit the board, then after they punch they should reach up off the board and stretch their bodies?

Thanks for the input...I really appreciate it.

Imat3

 

[KBT]

Judges should not judge anything before the kid leaves the springboard. This includes the run, hurdle and arm circle. Of course, there are always judges who like to judge technique which they shouldn't do. I judge and I don't care what technique is used. My job is to judge execution. Of course, if the lack of arm circle can cause execution issues like shoulder angle, hip angle, and not getting much power from the board which will effect the height and distance of the vault.

The arms should be up as the kid leaves the board. If the arms move upwards while jumping on the board this can improve the "punch" a kid gets from the board. Think about doing a tuck jump with the arms at your sides versus a tuck jump using your arms to "lift". You'll get a lot higher using your arms. There are other ways to get kids to lift the arms up as they hit the board, but I think the arm circle is the most universally easy way to understand and teach it.

 

[lannamavity]

Thanks a lot for your help.


So, their arms should be down when they hit the board, then after they punch they should reach up off the board and stretch their bodies?

Thanks for the input...I really appreciate it.

Imat3

Well...not exactly...part of the reason they may have closed shoulder angles is because they reach "up off the board".

While they are supposed to open their shoulder angle, they really don't go "up" off of the board...they "flip" to a 3/4 handstand. If they go up (and reach up) too much, they will, of course, come down on their hands. Few people on the planet are able to jump up in the air and land on outstreched arms without either breaking their arms or compensating by bending their arms or closing their shoulder angle.

Reaching "out" may be a better way to put it. The goal is to touch the mats or table on the way up...not after going up.

It's a lot more complicated than it looks.

 

[CoachL]

Judges should not judge anything before the kid leaves the springboard. This includes the run, hurdle and arm circle.

Incorrect, level 4 is the only level where the run is actually judged. The run in level 4 is up to 1.0 if memory serves me correct.

 

[lannamavity]

Incorrect, level 4 is the only level where the run is actually judged. The run in level 4 is up to 1.0 if memory serves me correct.

Up to .9 divided in to 3 catagories at .3 each including:

lack of acceleration of run
failure to maintain horizontal speed
excessive lean forward on board

all before they leave the board.

 

[KBT]

Incorrect, level 4 is the only level where the run is actually judged. The run in level 4 is up to 1.0 if memory serves me correct.

Thanks for correcting. I guess this does make sense at Level 4. I judge high school so I don't look at the run, although I can *usually* get a very good idea of how good the vault it going to be based on the run.

 

[dancedancedancer08]

Yeahhhh

I actually don't know. all I know is that when I was a level 4 we did the arm circle.

 

[floorlover14]

Yeah

Last year we didn't do the arm circle very much, but now we are really focusing on it in order to prepare us for the level 5 vault (where it is very necessary) because it gets you up and over. For level 4, though I think the vault looks prettier and more controlled with it. At meets I have been to, most teams do it.

 

[CoachTodd]

Well...not exactly...part of the reason they may have closed shoulder angles is because they reach "up off the board".

While they are supposed to open their shoulder angle, they really don't go "up" off of the board...they "flip" to a 3/4 handstand. If they go up (and reach up) too much, they will, of course, come down on their hands. Few people on the planet are able to jump up in the air and land on outstreched arms without either breaking their arms or compensating by bending their arms or closing their shoulder angle.

Reaching "out" may be a better way to put it. The goal is to touch the mats or table on the way up...not after going up.

It's a lot more complicated than it looks.

Technically they are reaching up. Their arms are going from their sides or shoulders to their ears. If they aren't flipping, this is up. Of course when their hands hit the mats or table, up is now down. The only reason I bring this up is, more often than not, when I hear a coach saying," reach out" the vaulter dives forward. Makes me a little more crazy that normal

There's a huge thread on this about the compulsory skills here :
http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/c...de-2-i-hate-usag-girls-compulsory-vaults.html

 

[ttmichelle]

Level 4 vault has running deductions, doesn't that mean that they are judging before they hit the table. I understand that the arm circle is not judged but the run is and it is worth alot. I think most coaches miss this, there is almost a point of deductions that can be taken before the athlete even hits the board.

 

[CoachTodd]

Level 4 vault has running deductions, doesn't that mean that they are judging before they hit the table. I understand that the arm circle is not judged but the run is and it is worth alot. I think most coaches miss this, there is almost a point of deductions that can be taken before the athlete even hits the board.

From what I recall, they are allowed up to 6 tenths on the run and board position.
This is from the JO book:
B. RUN & BOARD CONTACT:
1. Insufficient acceleration during the run Up to 0.30
2. Failure to maintain horizontal running speed
to the board Up to 0.30
3. Excessive forward lean of the body upon
board contact Up to 0.30

I think number 2 is stupid since number 1 really covers it. Its weird that there is a deduction for insufficient acceleration and failure to maintain speed. If I maintain my speed, I'm not acceleration. If I start from a stop then run, I accelerated. Too much room for opinion in these deductions.

Here's all of the ones listed on the website:

A. GENERAL DEDUCTIONS:
1. Failure to maintain a straight body position:
Arch Each phase Up to 0.30
Pike Each phase Up to 0.50
2. Legs bent Each phase Up to 0.30
3. Legs separated Each phase Up to 0.20
4. Incorrect foot form Each phase Up to 0.10
5. Incorrect head alignment Each phase Up to 0.10
6. Deviation from straight direction Up to 0.30
7. Insufficient dynamics (speed/power) Up to 0.30
8. Assistance of coach after gymnast achieves hand
support on the mat stack 2.00
• If the gymnast never achieves vertical and returns to the
board (or lands on the mat stack between the board and
hand placement), it is considered as “wrong vaultâ€￾. VOID
9. Performing incorrect vault (i.e., squat on, etc.) VOID
10. Assistance of coach from board to mat stack VOID
(No deduction for coach standing between board & mat stack)
11. Run-approach without executing the vault (Balk)
• A fall on the run-approach is considered a Balk - no deduction
• Touching the springboard or mat stack VOID
B. RUN & BOARD CONTACT:
1. Insufficient acceleration during the run Up to 0.30
2. Failure to maintain horizontal running speed
to the board Up to 0.30
3. Excessive forward lean of the body upon
board contact Up to 0.30
C. FIRST FLIGHT PHASE: See A. General Deductions
159
D. SUPPORT PHASE:
1. Arms bent Up to 0.50
2. Completely bent arms causing head to contact mat 2.00
3. Incorrect shoulder alignment (showing a shoulder angle) Up to 0.30
4. Failure to show an inverted vertical position from hands
to hips (performing a forward rolling action) Up to 2.00
5. Contacting the mat stack with the hands after vertical Up to 1.00
• Contact from 1° to 45° past vertical Up to 0.50
• Contact from 46° - 89° past vertical 0.55 - 1.00
6. Failure to place hands in the prescribed landing zone
(between edge of mat and the tape line). If hands land entirely
beyond the tape line, deduct 0.50
- Staggered hand placement: one inside zone, one over line 0.20
7. Additional hand placements (taking steps/hops on hands) Up to 0.30
8. Failure to contact mat with both hands 3.00
(performs a front layout or touches with only one hand)
E. POST-HANDSTAND PHASE
See General Vault deductions regarding body position, etc.
F. LANDING PHASE:
Failure to finish in a straight lying position on the back Up to 1.0
Examples for applying this deduction:
The gymnast lands on her feet, salutes, and steps off the mat. 1.00
The gymnast lands on her seat with a 90° hip angle, salutes,
and steps off the mat. 0.50
The gymnast lands on her back with an arch and bent legs,
salutes and steps off the mat. Up to 0.50
If the gymnast makes any of the above execution errors, then lies back
to a straight lying position, NO DEDUCTION for failure to finish on the mat
in a straight lying position is taken; however, you may have execution
deductions applied for the errors while the gymnast is falling to her back
(Post-handstand phase).
The evaluation finishes when the gymnast arrives in a straight lying position

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

My opinion is that arm circles are overrated.

A good strong arm circle certainly helps some kids to get a better punch on the board and/or a better block, but it's peripheral, if that makes sense.

I'd compare arm circle technique to head position in a giant on bars. Many coaches teach kids to keep their head in while going over top on the giant, because it helps the kid stay hollow. Does that mean that having the head in is necessary or should be judged? No. It's not the head position that makes the giant, it's the body position; the head just helps some kids for some reason.

An arm circle on vault is similar. It is helpful to some kids, but it is not an integral part of the skill.

I don't know the specifics of the girl's code as well as I know the guys code. However, in my opinion, the arm circle should not be judged for either boys or girls, as many of the best vaulters in the world have no arm circle at all.

I generally don't stress much about arm circles; some kids do it, some kids don't, and I let them do whatever they're comfortable with.

One more thing, though:

The reason I ask is that we were at a meet this weekend and our girls' vault scores were low. Another coach said the reason was that this particular judge was taking off if the girls did NOT do an arm circle. It is not in the text, but just preference of that judge, I guess.

I really really really hate when judges do this; unfortunately, it seems to be an endemic problem on the women's side of the sport (less common on the men's side, though far from nonexistant). The judge should not be allowed to make stuff up that isn't in the code; their job isn't to write the code, it's to score according to it. If you can't judge according to the code, you're not qualified to be a judge and should not be given the job, in my opinion.

Sorry, that's just an enormous pet peeve of mine.

 

[CoachTodd]

Level 4 vault has running deductions, doesn't that mean that they are judging before they hit the table. I understand that the arm circle is not judged but the run is and it is worth alot. I think most coaches miss this, there is almost a point of deductions that can be taken before the athlete even hits the board.

.3 for not accelerating I love the wording "insufficient acceleration" That leaves it up to the judge to decide if they sped up enough.
.3 for slowing down (kinda seems to be the same thing to me)
then another .3 when they make contact with the board if they lean forward.

 

[asgcoach]

That is correct. That also applies to Prep-Op Silvers or Prep Op 2s.