WAG Switching fm Xcel to JO. How does the judging/scoring differ?

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myeyeson_u

Dd was in Xcel as of last season and will now be on the JO side of the house. I really didn't know what Xcel was and kinda had to learn along the way (we came from R5 and dd's old gym doesn't do Xcel). She competed Silver this season. And I found out Wednesday that she'll be scoring out of 4. The plan was for her to also score out of 5 as well and move onto 6. But dd hasn't stuck her flyaways for coach to be comfie enough to compete 6 in the spring. She'll do a meet or a few as L5 while still training/learning L6/L7 skills. Compulsory did compete in the fall, but L5 will be competing in the spring this go round. It's still fairly early. So he's going to play it by ear and she if she's ready come competition time. And if she stays L5 2014/2015 season, she'll compete L7 the next season.

I'm happy she's switching to JO. I've been told the judging is different from Xcel (kinda tough/strict). However, I have no idea how different it is. She's done pretty well competing Xcel. She's the type of gymnast that will get bored if she doesn't feel like she has any competition and/or challenge. I told her coach this back in December, and after the season ended, he pretty much confirmed what I said. She's a talented girl. I know this switch will be good for her. It'll keep her on her toes. I just want to know what to expect, switching over.
 
Ok. If she is competing L5, then the judges know exactly what "perfection" is. It has been established. They will look to see (not just the form like they did in Xcel) if everything is in the right position according to the compulsory routine. In Xcel, she could do whatever type of 1/2 turn on one foot she wanted to on beam... in L5, the exact turns are prescribed. The location of her hands is dictated... ex. arms in forward middle" and stuff like that. Whereas the "cutesy fluff" was just filler in Xcel and they could do whatever they wanted, in L5 the fluff is part of the plan.

Hopefully, she only has to do 1 meet at L5 and then go on to L6... so much easier. Optionals are more like Xcel, but with higher cast requirements and bigger split requirements (cast to handstand or deduction and no credit if not within 20º at L6-10 and 180º split leaps/ jumps on floor AND beam or deduction).

Good luck.
 
I find that when competition season starts, the girls are pretty excited and ready to go. By the middle of the season, they are pretty 'perfect' with the big toe left and the pinky right.....it really gets down to details in JO.
By the end of the season they are downright bored. They are very sick of the details, and being perfect and want to move on to new skills.
I guess that is how 'mastery' of the level goes in JO.
 
I know girls in our gym who consistently scored 32 or below in JO , and then moved to Excel, where they consistently scored high 35s -36 ...with the same skills...so it's will be a whole different (and tougher ) animal for you...
The scores will definitely be lower, but it really isn't the skills they are getting killed on it is the perfection of the compulsory routines. My dd did all her lower level competition in xcel/prep-op and moved to L7. She scored very similarly in terms of scoring in both programs.
 
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The scores will definitely be lower, but it really isn't the skills they are getting killed on it is the perfection of the compulsory routines. My dd did all her lower level competition in xcel/prep-op and moved to L7. She scored very similarly in terms of scoring in both programs.
Maybe I'm reading wrong, but she didn't score out of 4 & 5?
 
I don't want to reveal any trade secrets, but Xcel judging is pretty generous. I've seen girls who score 37s in Xcel, and want to switch to JO, so they have to score out of 4 & 5, and they barely meet the required 31.00, or are in the 32s-33s. The scoring in JO compulsories is tough, and the higher the compulsory level, the stricter. It's true that Level 6 is much better than compulsories, because they have a chart of skills to choose from, they can do what suits their skill level and personality, and there's no set routines.
 
I don't want to reveal any trade secrets, but Xcel judging is pretty generous. I've seen girls who score 37s in Xcel, and want to switch to JO, so they have to score out of 4 & 5, and they barely meet the required 31.00, or are in the 32s-33s. The scoring in JO compulsories is tough, and the higher the compulsory level, the stricter. It's true that Level 6 is much better than compulsories, because they have a chart of skills to choose from, they can do what suits their skill level and personality, and there's no set routines.
That's the point. In JO Compulsories, perfection has been established. The placement of the hands and the types of turns and when they do the skills is all prescribed. Xcel is like JO Optionals... but with the chart of skills aligned for the different divisions.
The judges that come to our meets judge Xcel just like they judge JO Optionals... watch the routine... note the deductions... calculate the SV... take the deductions from the SV to arrive at the score.
 
Maybe I'm reading wrong, but she didn't score out of 4 & 5?
no, you didn't miss anything. I compared my Dd's experience of scoring out and moving to L7 from Xcel (and getting similar scores) to show that it is not the actual skills that are judged more harshly but the perfection of the routines. People like to compare Xcel scoring and compulsory scoring and say 'See? Xcel has easier scoring' but its comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare a compulsory routine score to an optional routine score because judges know exactly what they are looking for in the compulsory routine - every single hand and fit position. That's not the case in optional routines. Compare Xcel scoring to level 6/7 scoring and then you have apples to apples. And I don't think anyone would honestly say that level 7+ scoring is 'easier' than compulsory. Yrs, you typically get higher scores butts not because it is easier - Its because it focuses on something different, so you can't compare it.

I don't want to reveal any trade secrets, but Xcel judging is pretty generous. I've seen girls who score 37s in Xcel, and want to switch to JO, so they have to score out of 4 & 5, and they barely meet the required 31.00, or are in the 32s-33s. The scoring in JO compulsories is tough, and the higher the compulsory level, the stricter..
usually the reason for the low scores when scoring out is because the girls spend very little time practicing the routines. Sometimes as little as 2 weeks of learning the routines. The idea is to get the minimum score to move on, not win the competition. You cannot compare scores from girls who are just scoring out with scores from girls who have had 2+ years of working compulsory routines. The low scores do not indicate that they barely have the skills. They usually have much higher skills. The scores indicate the lack of perfection of the strict, set routine, which is not an issue in optionals.

For the OP, xcel is geared toward getting skills and competing them competently. Compulsory adds the element of also performing set routines perfectly. That's why they have one routine for everyone to do - so the judges know what the standard is. If your child is going from Xcel to compulsory, you will see a drop in scores and you should prepare your daughter for it. And the amount of the drop will really depend upon how well she has perfected the routines, which is usually related to how much time she had to learn and practice them. But let her know why she may get lower scores and that they will improve in time, as she will be in a program that is geared to focus on that perfection, which Xcel is not
 
no, you didn't miss anything. I compared my Dd's experience of scoring out and moving to L7 from Xcel (and getting similar scores) to show that it is not the actual skills that are judged more harshly but the perfection of the routines. People like to compare Xcel scoring and compulsory scoring and say 'See? Xcel has easier scoring' but its comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare a compulsory routine score to an optional routine score because judges know exactly what they are looking for in the compulsory routine - every single hand and fit position. That's not the case in optional routines. Compare Xcel scoring to level 6/7 scoring and then you have apples to apples. And I don't think anyone would honestly say that level 7+ scoring is 'easier' than compulsory. Yrs, you typically get higher scores butts not because it is easier - Its because it focuses on something different, so you can't compare it.

usually the reason for the low scores when scoring out is because the girls spend very little time practicing the routines. Sometimes as little as 2 weeks of learning the routines. The idea is to get the minimum score to move on, not win the competition. You cannot compare scores from girls who are just scoring out with scores from girls who have had 2+ years of working compulsory routines. The low scores do not indicate that they barely have the skills. They usually have much higher skills. The scores indicate the lack of perfection of the strict, set routine, which is not an issue in optionals.

For the OP, xcel is geared toward getting skills and competing them competently. Compulsory adds the element of also performing set routines perfectly. That's why they have one routine for everyone to do - so the judges know what the standard is. If your child is going from Xcel to compulsory, you will see a drop in scores and you should prepare your daughter for it. And the amount of the drop will really depend upon how well she has perfected the routines, which is usually related to how much time she had to learn and practice them. But let her know why she may get lower scores and that they will improve in time, as she will be in a program that is geared to focus on that perfection, which Xcel is not
Thank you! That is exactly my point! :)
 
Thanks for that thorough explanation @gymgal. I hope that she'll just be able to score out of 5. Only time will tell. We don't have to worry about 4. As far as competing the level goes. But I'll be sure to let her know what to expect when that time comes.
 
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