Do you change vault settings when teaching front handspring vault?

[bigtiny]

I have a question for coaches. When you are teaching gymnasts to do the front handspring vault (ones who haven't done it before), how do you set the vault table? Would you start them on a low table, have them perfect the vault on that and then move it up? Would you have them learn the vault on a higher setting from the start? Also, if you had a group of gymnasts that range in size from quite small to quite tall, would you adjust the table to different heights for them to learn the vault, or would you have everyone just vault at the same height (and, if so, which one?)?

Thank you for all of your input! I appreciate coaches perspective!

 

[Aussie_coach]

Yes we tend to start low, for smaller gymnasts that is. Not such a good idea for the taller ones. We don't tend to have them vault on too many different setting though because in Australia there are very set rules on how high the table has to be.

For level 5 it can be set anywhere between 2-5, for level 6 it can be set only oon 4 or 5, and for level 7-10 it must be set on 5. Female gymnasts are not allowed to vault on a higher table setting.

 

[gymdog]

All of my 5s vault on the same setting, although we've got some different board settings going on. I'm not necessarily opposed to changing it, but everyone was fine and I don't see a need.

Hypothetically I'd put them on whatever they can get over, which for most girls moving up from 5 isn't very high. It's not like we immediately move to the table much. I like having a trainer, which we don't have at one gym I've worked at, but you can't change it much, three different choices. The lowest setting is the lowest setting though, sometimes the smallest kids can't really get over it, but you're kind of out of luck at that point. There's only 5cm difference between the settings so if I had everyone going on 1, I might not waste the time moving it down. I kind of feel like if they aren't getting over that well on second lowest setting, moving down to 0 might not be all that helpful anyway. Most of the smallest kids just aren't going to have their greatest vault year at L5. It's a struggle, but as they get more comfortable using their run and using the board, they should see improvement.

We do have them do a lot of drills over a higher setting and with mats higher than the setting they'll use, although it isn't the full FHS.

 

[bogwoppit]

Here under 12 use the table at 115cm's over 12 at 125cm's, so the girls learn to train at their height. Only one spring board is allowed at provincial meets and it is hard. As Gymdog said some of the younger girls just don't have nice vaults.

The coach will boost them over the vault, this helps, but with no adjustments available to the coaches the kids have to learn to do it at the height mandated.

 

[mom2kazkids]

Our gym actually starts the girls going over the level 4 resi mat turned side ways (so they are going over the short side) before sending them over the horse.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I would start with it fairly low, and then adjust it according to what they appear to need; some problems (ie floating too much on preflight, hitting the table past vertical) can actually be fixed by raising the table -- so trying to fix these problems with the table low is not always worth the time and effort.

It all depends on the gymnast.

 

[bigtiny]

My daughter's group has just started working the FHS vault. The coach is having them all vault on 2. My daughter (age 6) is running very well now but is not able to clear the vault on 2. I don't know if she could clear it on 0 or not, but she has not been given the chance to try. The coach is saying she will most likely send her back to 4 because of vault (that all of her other events are good for level 5).

The reason this puzzles me is that the level 6 coach AT THE SAME GYM (my other daughter did level 6 last year) adjusts the table setting for each gymnast to maximize her vault. But the level 4/5 coach makes them ALL begin vaulting and 2 and be vaulting on 4 by mid-summer. Is this realistic for a small 6-year-old? Or is this just a good "reason" to send her back to Level 4?

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

It is such a hassle to be moving the table up and down for one gymnast, but it is worth it!
For their ongoing development it makes for a better vault. If they are struggling to get over how can there truly be concentration on form and the coaches desired technique?
I know of a coach who made her entire group vault on the same settings with the same board in the same spot. Her group had a tiny 9yo up to a powerful 14yo.
They vaulted on a hard board with seven springs (most in the level were using a soft 7 or hard 5) and had the table at 120cm. This was apparently going to make them better vaulters (or coach needed to justify how lazy she was).
Most of the girls from that group still can't vault well, huge shoulder angles, bent knees, leg separations, basically arching off the table with no real prop.

I know I would rather play equipment shuffle for a year than have to fix a vault like that.

 

[gymdog]

My daughter's group has just started working the FHS vault. The coach is having them all vault on 2. My daughter (age 6) is running very well now but is not able to clear the vault on 2. I don't know if she could clear it on 0 or not, but she has not been given the chance to try. The coach is saying she will most likely send her back to 4 because of vault (that all of her other events are good for level 5).

The reason this puzzles me is that the level 6 coach AT THE SAME GYM (my other daughter did level 6 last year) adjusts the table setting for each gymnast to maximize her vault. But the level 4/5 coach makes them ALL begin vaulting and 2 and be vaulting on 4 by mid-summer. Is this realistic for a small 6-year-old? Or is this just a good "reason" to send her back to Level 4?

Seems weird but it's hard to say. For me it's too early to be working over the table extensively with new 5s, I don't see the point, would rather concentrate on drills and then trying it a little with a spot just to see how they can get over. But I guess that depends on how much they've already trained it beforehand. I'd speak to the head coach with any questions about it.

Vaulting isn't that important to me at that level. Form, run, and board work are the focus to me. We are using the same vault for three separate levels...I assume most L5s are not going to be showing me an ideal FHS vault. It needs to be safe, and they need to be able to do it, but I'm also usually not worried about the actual getting over part on it's own. More important to me is how both kips are looking, and if they can show me a good run and punch on the board, which I can at least work with. If everything leading up to is no good, then I know we're in for a long road. If they can run and hit the board, then I assume they'll be getting over with a couple months of work.

But from your posts here, it sounds like this coach has decided your daughter is going to be a 4 next year. This could be a good thing or bad thing, I can't really comment on that, but I think the bottom line is that if you want a sure chance of doing 5, you may be looking at a gym switch. It's possible they may be thinking of having her skip a level later, but you might have to decide whether you're willing to stay in this program for the long run. If you trust the coaches, then it might be for the best, if it's not working out it might be better to try a slightly more laid back or smaller, individualized program.

 

[cher062]

Our gym sets the table according to height of the gymnast first then evaluate if they will raise it or lower it. My DD vaults at setting 3 for meets but practices at setting 4 unless its a week before the meet then its at the setting 3.

 

[Chalky]

My daughter's group has just started working the FHS vault. The coach is having them all vault on 2. My daughter (age 6) is running very well now but is not able to clear the vault on 2. I don't know if she could clear it on 0 or not, but she has not been given the chance to try. The coach is saying she will most likely send her back to 4 because of vault (that all of her other events are good for level 5).

The reason this puzzles me is that the level 6 coach AT THE SAME GYM (my other daughter did level 6 last year) adjusts the table setting for each gymnast to maximize her vault. But the level 4/5 coach makes them ALL begin vaulting and 2 and be vaulting on 4 by mid-summer. Is this realistic for a small 6-year-old? Or is this just a good "reason" to send her back to Level 4?

Sounds to me like the coach is being lazy OR as another poster suggested, using the vault as an excuse for your daughter to not be on level 5.

Yes, it is a hassle to keep moving the table, but a coach should set the equipment at the level that gives the gymnast the best chance for success. I have coached a group that where one kid had to have the table all the way down (95 cm), and our strongest kid vaulted with it on 4 (115 cm), with all the others in between. I split them into sub-groups on vault, based on their settings. While one group vaulted over the table the others did drills, and I rotated them in and out.

If you are not happy with your daughter having to vault on 2, I would suggest speaking to the coach again, and asking for their reasoning, (without sounding like you are questioning their competance!). If you are still not happy after that, I would ask to speak to the head coach or gym owner. As a coach, I always like parents to speak to me first, before they "tattle" to my boss .

Good Luck

 

[gymnut1]

We always vault in groups on the same height. We are lucky enough to have a two way vault station so we can set two different heights and the two groups alternate using the runway. If my dd is the only one in her group that is smaller she just vaults on the higher setting with the bigger girls. Her coach will give her a push over if needed. She is 8 and has to vault on 1.15 in the UK but sometimes vaults FIG 1.25 if needed.

I sometimes vault my 7 year olds group over a red block to give them the feel of going over. Perhaps your coach could set this up for her at the other end and she could alternate the runway like we do. Otherwise I just try and get them to handstand on the vault table at 1.00m. I have a 7 year old that flies over a vault table no problem and she isn't any bigger than the others. She just runs really fast and has better board technique.

Which bit of the vault is your dd struggling with - the run and hurdle/ board technique are usually more of a problem than the height.

 

[marie83]

I can't say there is a hard and fast way for me:

In previous years I have coached an older group of girls who started gymnastics late and therefore started handsprings at about age 10 or 11, before that they were doing flatbacks. They were all tall girls but equally the fear had already set in, so with them I started on the lowest setting, and even used a trampette. Purely to build up their confidence. After a week we substituted the tramp for a board and then once they were confident raised the height of the vault 1 setting at a time.

With my current group who are aged 7/8 I started on the lowest setting, mainly due to their height. They are quite small still, so they won't move on to a higher vault until they can vault over 1m on their own.

Here in GB the vault settings are 'compulsory' for each grade so my gymnasts won't actually have to handspring until grade 12 (in 2011) or if they are ready compulsory 4 next March. But whichever they do they will have to vault on 110cm.

With my gymnasts I try to treat them as individuals, so if 1 isn't ready to move on to a higher vault, they won't, if 1 is, then she will. It is hard work, but that's they way it is. There is not point making 1 gymnast feel bad about not being able to do something just because I'm too lazy to do anything about it!

Currently I have 8 gymnasts in my group. 3 of them are able to handspring over the table, 1 is able but has no confidence and tends to mess up when she thinks too much about what she is doing, and the others can't flatback on 110 at the moment. That's a lot of juggling around in a 30 minute vault session!